Tango in the Night POLL (Fleetwood Mac)

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In fact, before watching that Rock Family Trees, I'd assumed that the line-up that did 'Big Love' was a slightly different line-up to the one that did 'Rhiannon', because Lindsey Buckingham looked so different in the 'Big Love' video.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Monday, 13 March 2017 19:55 (two years ago) link

In two weeks it'll be the 30th anniversary of "Big Love" debuting on the Hot 100: https://weeklytop40.wordpress.com/1987-all-charts/

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 March 2017 20:00 (two years ago) link

that Rock Family Tree doc is great for anyone who wants a nosey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYaE5qFpGQM

piscesx, Monday, 13 March 2017 20:30 (two years ago) link

"Mystified" is kinda killing me right now.

Naive Teen Idol, Monday, 13 March 2017 22:19 (two years ago) link

'Isn't It Midnight' is my jam on this these days.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Monday, 13 March 2017 22:23 (two years ago) link

TA-AN-GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 12:38 (two years ago) link

Excellent review Brad

Edge of Seventeen anecdote is blowing my mind

blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 13:32 (two years ago) link

It's hilarious that ten years later not a single poster has admitted to voting for "Welcome to the Room................Sara."

I will say this about it: as dire as the song is, it features Stevie's best performance on the record by a fair distance. The writing bears her trademark phrasing – and her singing is far more invested (and subsequently less manipulated by Lindsay). Which makes a certain amount of sense given that it's about the most relevant thing in her life at the time: drugs, rehab and isolation.

Naive Teen Idol, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:37 (two years ago) link

It's her only complete performance. She didn't write "Seven Wonders" and didn't finish "When I See You Again." She's there and not-there on this album in a way that astonishes me.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:50 (two years ago) link

For me, it's never really mattered that Nicks contributed relatively little to this record, since McVie's and Buckingham's contributions are so potent.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 23:00 (two years ago) link

(then again, Nicks always was my least favourite of the three songwriters)

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 23:01 (two years ago) link

Mine as well, tho Stevie's best moments—"Sara," "Gypsy," "Dreams," "Storms"—are undoubtedly really good, even if I sometimes question how much of what I like about them is wedded their arrangements and production.

Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:26 (two years ago) link

I disagree. Her songs are often the weakest but no way in hell would I want a Fleetwood Mac without her. She's peculiar: one of the few singer-songwriters who is both the most conventional, kitschiest member (Eagles fetish, New Age crap) and the weirdest vision.

otoh Buckingham is often a better arranger and producer and singer than songwriter; often his songs are about nothing and aren't anything except their arrangements. He's at best coaxing and shaping great songs out of McVie and Nicks.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:31 (two years ago) link

*and HAS the weirdest vision

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:32 (two years ago) link

i mean i disagree too but that's bc her mac-oriented songs are all knockouts until mirage, which has "gypsy" anyway

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:37 (two years ago) link

I agree that Buckingham works wonders on McVie's and Nicks' material, it's partly the reason why McVie's tracks sound so utterly magnificent on Tango, and partly the reason why Nicks was able to get away with phoning it in.

I can't wait to hear what the Buckingham-McVie record sounds like, although I still see no reason why it shouldn't be put out as a Fleetwood Mac record.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:38 (two years ago) link

stevie's songs can be really digressive but it's a good counterpoint to the precision of buckingham and mcvie, she gets adventurous in a way they do not

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:38 (two years ago) link

With maybe one exception, her songs on Say You Will are her best on a Mac record since Tusk.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:38 (two years ago) link

I can't wait to hear what the Buckingham-McVie record sounds like, although I still see no reason why it shouldn't be put out as a Fleetwood Mac record.

― Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Tuesday, March 14, 2017

I bet Nicks and her lawyers rewrote her contract so that Fleetwood Mac isn't "Fleetwood Mac" without her. She's the star.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:39 (two years ago) link

With maybe one exception, her songs on Say You Will are her best on a Mac record since Tusk.

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, March 14, 2017 5:38 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

agreed. (what's the exception? "illume" is p dull imo)

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:41 (two years ago) link

Yep. Classic Nicks example of wandering in search of a melody.

otoh "Running Through the Garden"! "Goodbye Baby"! The title track! "Thrown Down"!

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:45 (two years ago) link

Mine as well, tho Stevie's best moments—"Sara," "Gypsy," "Dreams," "Storms"—are undoubtedly really good, even if I sometimes question how much of what I like about them is wedded their arrangements and production.

― Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, March 15, 2017 12:26 AM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, the best of Stevie's stuff really is genuinely great - 'Sara' for me being the pinnacle of her songwriting for Fleetwood Mac, and I really love 'Sisters of the Moon' and 'Gold Dust Woman' ... I'd still rank her as my third favourite songwriter in this incarnation of Fleetwood Mac, vastly preferring McVie's well crafted pop and Buckingham's stuff like 'That's All For Everyone', 'Go Your Own Way', 'What Makes You Think You're The One', his tracks on Tango...

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:46 (two years ago) link

On the Enchanted box set she includes a couple of demos of her best '90s songs ("Sweet Girl," "Twisted"), on which she and another guitarist (Jesse Vanenzuela on one!) play all the instruments and guess what -- the chord changes and melodies are all hers and survived intact. It's possible she was a better recordmaker by the '90s, but I'm reluctant to give Buck the lion's share of the credit for making her listenable; there's a faint whiff of misogyny.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:49 (two years ago) link

stevie's songs can be really digressive but it's a good counterpoint to the precision of buckingham and mcvie, she gets adventurous in a way they do not

― the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, March 15, 2017 12:38 AM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Adventurous like on the stock '70s California soft rock of 'Angel' or adventurous like on the stock '70s California soft rock of 'I Don't Wanna Know' ... or adventurous like the meandering, take-your-time-getting-somewhere '70s California soft rock of 'Storms' or 'Beautiful Child'? The latter two which neither have the pop hooks of McVie's material or are as interesting as Buckingham's material?

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:52 (two years ago) link

"I Don't Wanna Know" is as precise as any McVie!

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:53 (two years ago) link

agreed with alfred on the faint whiff of misogyny

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:54 (two years ago) link

"Storms" doesn't sound like Nicolette Larson, Carly Simon, Kenny Loggins, or however you define California soft rock.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:55 (two years ago) link

and I haven't even mentioned the half dozen great solo songs on which Buckingham is nowhere near

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:56 (two years ago) link

we could also talk about "silver springs" which has like two choruses and sounds enormous in a way that basically no other rumours track does

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:57 (two years ago) link

I think Stevie is just one of those songwriters who does her best work bouncing off someone else. There's nothing wrong with that. She's not a typical singer-songwriter, more like Madonna.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:59 (two years ago) link

"beautiful child" wanders and builds itself up block by block as much as "sara" and every time she sings "i am not a child anymore" it sounds like years have passed

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 00:59 (two years ago) link

^^^ yes. And her timbre changes!

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:00 (two years ago) link

I can't believe we're re-litigating Nicks' contributions. I got no problem with someone ranking her last among the three, but to call her flaws worse than McVie's homilies or Buckingham's formalist vacuity misses the point of a band complementing its members' strengths.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:04 (two years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKIC_Kza4Ek

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:07 (two years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPEhIoKeTg0

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:07 (two years ago) link

0s, but I'm reluctant to give Buck the lion's share of the credit for making her listenable; there's a faint whiff of misogyny.

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, March 15, 2017 12:49 AM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm not reluctant in the least - it's a well known fact that Buckingham did a great deal of arranging and production on the others songs - just check the album credits, or even accounts from the band members themselves. A chord progression and a melody is one thing, but a great arrangement and production can give life to something that can be unremarkable at its core.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:08 (two years ago) link

Sure, but that's no more the case with McVie or Buckingham's songs. She's not a lesser songwriter b/c her songs needed the glittering arrangements as much as her colleague did.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:10 (two years ago) link

alfred relentless otm

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:11 (two years ago) link

relentlessly*

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:12 (two years ago) link

pretend i linked to another fleetwood mac thread where ppl marveled over her piano demo for "gypsy". her songs are not just arrangements

(i make the argument that "seven wonders" is but it's not her song!)

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:18 (two years ago) link

No, she's a lesser songwriter, at least in my opinion, because neither do I think she's as great at the pop hooks at McVie is, but nor do I find her material as interesting as Buckingham's. Like I've said, the best of her material is truly great, but when it comes down to it the majority of my Fleetwood Mac highlights come from the others.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:19 (two years ago) link

(and I'm about as interested in Nicks' solo stuff about as much as a cow is interested in becoming a burger)

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:20 (two years ago) link

you're crazy, belladonna is almost perfect

a but (brimstead), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:20 (two years ago) link

Diehard Mac fans have seen the clip from the SYW making-of documentary in which Buckingham at his most passive aggressive and smug explains why it's bad that she changes verb tenses in a song. Nicks, annoyed, replies, "Would you tell Bob Dylan his verb tenses are wrong?"

My larger point is that Nicks, like Dylan, is not an instrumentalist: she uses a piano or guitar as tools instead of weapons that need mastering. If you like her less than McVie or Buckingham as personage and songwriter, I get it and I won't argue...but she's not a lesser songwriter b/c she can't play piano as well as McVie or guitar as well as Buck.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:22 (two years ago) link

idk i'm finding turrican's argument that nicks is a lesser songwriter just bc she is neither christine mcvie or lindsey buckingham super convincing

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:23 (two years ago) link

(and I'm about as interested in Nicks' solo stuff about as much as a cow is interested in becoming a burger)

― Coolio Iglesias (Turrican),

I'm not sure this is the appropriate metaphor to use for a woman whom male critics have called, for example, a mooncalf.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:24 (two years ago) link

she can also write circles around the two of them lyrically

the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:24 (two years ago) link

Has anyone heard the whole of McVie's 1984 solo album? "Got a Hold on Me" is certainly great. Bucky plays guitar on that one, but who is Todd Sharp, the other guitarist/writer? This sounds like Tom Petty, or maybe Bryan Adams:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb5mjCHNKLs

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:25 (two years ago) link

The album's a tuneful bore. I do love a track called "The Smile I Live For."

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:26 (two years ago) link

I remember a time on ILX when McVie got the flak as the Dull One.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 01:26 (two years ago) link


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