I appreciate the details and analysis. Thank you The simultaneous assault on all those things via satanism as it intersects with something as innocuous as pizza/cheese pizza is fascinating
So like who is the person who genuinely believes Podesta/Clinton are pedophiles? They're being preyed upon by a syllogism right? Who benefits from people believing this?
I can only follow this stuff from a distance so I appreciate the added context.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 6 February 2017 19:04 (seven years ago) link
The handkerchief is interesting because it is the... not least crazy but hardest to explain. Give me a minute.
So - there is an email, from a realtor, to friends of John Podesta, saying "Nice to show you around the properties yesterday, we found a black & white handkerchief". And the friend forwards it on to Podesta saying "Hey they found a handkerchief, I think it has a map that seems pizza-related, is it yours?" and he says "It's mine, but not worth worrying about".
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 6 February 2017 22:11 (seven years ago) link
This is in a different class from the other "smoking gun". The Podestas have some friends who are another elderly couple with a family (and also, you know, billionaires), and they meet up occasionally and amongst other things play dominos. They sometimes give gifts around Christmas (because Christmas), the Podestas tend to send pasta and sauce because John loves Italian cooking, I guess?
So, one year, they get a mail from their friends saying:
I think you should give notice when changing strategies which have been long in place. I immediately realized something was different by the shape of the box and I contemplated who would be sending me something in the square shaped box. Lo and behold, instead of pasta and wonderful sauces, it was a lovely, tempting assortment of cheeses, Yummy. I am awaiting the return of my children and grandchildren from their holiday travels so that we can demolish them.
Thank you so much. I hope you and your gang are well.
I miss you both
Best wishes fro a merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Herb
Ps. Do you think I’ll do better playing dominos on cheese than on pasta?
And when Pizzagate finds this, they goes nuts, because this is clearly code! This can't be anything else because... you can't play dominos on cheese or pasta!
(well, 90% are engaged in this Nigel Tufnel impersonation - there's 10% saying "He just said he was going to demolish his children and grandchildren! What more are we waiting for?")
So yeah, the pizza map thing is their best lead - it sounds a little odd, and it's not some incredibly common turn of phrase that the folks at PG just haven't heard of. As far as I can tell, they're hoping that some brave citizen journalist will at some point ask John Podesta on camera what it means, and then they'll get the 5% chance that he will hiss and turn away, like a vampire from light. The other option, which would happen 100% of the time if he's innocent and 95% if he's guilty (nb these are not equally weighted possiblities), is that he will say "well, I don't remember what that means, to be honest, probably just an in-joke", and it's not clear what their backup plan is.
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 6 February 2017 22:12 (seven years ago) link
LL: I think some of it may be what aero was talking about above, reframing personal abuse in terms of a grander moral scheme. Some of it is I guess a similar reframing of edgelordness - I can't in my social structure revel in thinking about horrible things, but I can revel in thinking about vanquishing them.
Something that may be specific to this is people thinking "Well, I wasn't certain what to do but in the end I voted for Trump instead of Clinton (and maybe I don't want to think about why at the last I couldn't vote for her). And now he appears to be a monster. So.... she must be a BIGGER monster!"
Or, I could be full of shit.
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 6 February 2017 22:17 (seven years ago) link
Too bad the vigilantcitizen.com Pizzagate article isn't still up - it returns a 404 now. That was some OTT through the looking glass occult shit.
― Everything Moves Towards The Sun (Ross), Monday, 6 February 2017 22:59 (seven years ago) link
interesting new wrinkle in the saga:
sally field recently released a memoir in which she reveals that her stepfather abused her as a child. i was just listening to an interview that touched on that and she described an ability to dissociate ('walk out of the room" as she put it) and she used this to her advantage as an actor, particularly in playing Sybil. she related to her but, acc to Fields herself, it didn't dawn on her that she was able to relate because she had also experienced trauma and had a similar dissociative reaction to it.
and this relatability i think is something that draws a lot of people to the book/movie/saga of sybil...even though the story as we know it (the Shirley/Dr Wilbur/Flora Schreiber version) has been revealed to be an elaborate knot of lies. weird!
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 18 October 2018 18:40 (five years ago) link
whoa, thanks for that
― cod mad (Ross), Thursday, 18 October 2018 19:55 (five years ago) link
What is the Sybil DVD situation at this point? I don’t suppose any of the streaming services have it?
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 18 October 2018 22:10 (five years ago) link
i haven't checked -- i feel like it was on DVD at some point but idk about streaming
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 18 October 2018 23:57 (five years ago) link
wow that is a fascinating layer to the story. this is my favorite boookmarked thread imo fyi
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 19 October 2018 02:21 (five years ago) link
What is Debbie Nathan working on next?
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Friday, 19 October 2018 02:59 (five years ago) link
She was writing about border issues last I checked. I follow her on twitter! https://twitter.com/DebbieNathan2
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 19 October 2018 12:15 (five years ago) link
this is probably my favorite thread too because i get to talk about SYBIL, which tbh over the years has the distinction of being my perennial favorite conversation topic
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 19 October 2018 12:34 (five years ago) link
Leaving aside pizzagate and other politically-driven conspiracies -- which don't have any real traction in mainstream media -- what's the current example of Sybil or SRA? Is there something going on now that people are giving credibility to that will eventually seem totally bizarre that anyone believed?
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, 19 October 2018 23:52 (five years ago) link
idk. the first thing that springs to mind is conversion therapy? it's horrifically cruel and still practiced iirc (also illegal in CA and maybe other states iirc?)
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Saturday, 20 October 2018 00:34 (five years ago) link
i might be wrong about CA -- i didn't look it up before posting :-/
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Saturday, 20 October 2018 00:35 (five years ago) link
That’s p politically-driven imo
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 20 October 2018 00:39 (five years ago) link
The Johnny Gosch “my kid is missing & was kidnapped into an underground pedophile ring that goes all the way to the top & somehow involves the Savings & Loan collapse” springs to mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_GoschIt’s got so much lowlevel Satanic Panic hysteria going on, and the Netflix doc gave it a lot of unearned credibilityI feel for the mom but the whole story is out of control.
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 20 October 2018 02:46 (five years ago) link
What is the Sybil DVD situation at this point?
It's a little pricey ($30), but you can still get it on Amazon. I bought it a few years ago when it was maybe half that.
― clemenza, Saturday, 20 October 2018 04:26 (five years ago) link
For iffy psychology ideas, possibly psychopathy, or at least the idea that people are born as psychopaths, or that your boss is a psychopath and there's a test to prove it.
― adam the (abanana), Saturday, 20 October 2018 04:53 (five years ago) link
my favorite psychopathy test is the one that just flat out asks "are you a psychopath" and nothing else
― dub pilates (rushomancy), Saturday, 20 October 2018 06:30 (five years ago) link
i might be misremembering actually, i think it actually just presents the clinical definition of psychopathy and asks the test taker if that describes them
― dub pilates (rushomancy), Saturday, 20 October 2018 06:32 (five years ago) link
idk, when i think about moral panics or conspiracy theories recently, i think of how victims of abuse sometimes make up cover stories to explain the abuse and its effects. especially this happens in situations where insitutions or people in positions of power refuse to acknowledge the abuse. the insidious thing is the way this coping mechanism gets used by people in power to discredit victims of abuse by accusing them of being "hysterical" (which is a specifically misogynist attack) or of just making up things out of whole cloth.
― dub pilates (rushomancy), Saturday, 20 October 2018 06:50 (five years ago) link
i brought up conversion therapy because it is a cruel pseudoscientific sham + it made it into the therapeutic repertoire of otherwise accredited people/institutions. for a while at least, if i understand correctly, it was considered legitimate as a therapy (like the diagnosis and treatment of MPD/recovered memories) but clearly it is not.
the thing about the Sybil situation is that she was drugged and coerced emotionally into telling stories of abuse to perpetuate the above-reference complex web of lies and self-promotion of an ambitious doctor and the writer who immortalized her. she was not actually abused by her mother in the ways described in the book (or the movie). she was abused by her doctor.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Saturday, 20 October 2018 14:15 (five years ago) link
Just as FYI, the movie showed up on the dark.net.
― Elvis Telecom, Monday, 5 November 2018 03:20 (five years ago) link
i still love talking about sybil! so much in fact that i recorded a tiny (1 min) song inspired by her. i may record more. who am i to turn away when inspiration strikes? my most recent thoughts have been about Shirley Mason's art and the role art played in her life.
here is my song! https://tinyurl.com/rs8ku8t (it's a link to my soundcloud but i didn't want it to be searchable)
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 12 November 2019 23:57 (four years ago) link
i am especially interested in the way she used art to process trauma.
i thought this was esp interesting:
"...The sensory experience of Mason's art may mirror the relative presence and absence manifest from the inner/outer shifting moments of selfhood, as different aspects of her subjectivity inhabit conscious control. Rather than visualize difference embedded in the visual forms and styles, as has often been noted, I ask the viewer to suspend such pronouncements. Instead, reflect upon the freshness of the experience of Mason's art; it is palpable when one confronts, through immersion, the vastness of this project. For this author the cohesiveness and integrative capacity, the traumatic experiences embedded in the art evoke certainly the stifling effects of splintering, but also much more, the congruent balance between difference, the potential self-acceptance, the healing action of and the promise of self reparation.Another feeling from the work is a sense of urgency, of profound significance, struggling to be heard, seen and witnessed. There is a hallucinatory feeling after travelling through her work, again signalling the complex contradictions - the scream of silence and stillness. I increasingly found myself asking, where is Shirley Mason? Mason's art is a living testament to resilience, determination and artistic legacy, in the face of unspeakable trauma. Vigilance pervades the work, searching for understanding, and the elusive comfort, amidst the sadness and poignancy of pain transcribed in every mark, in the affective traces of a hard-fought self-presence. The disquiet posits on of the enduring threads that permeate Mason's art, giving the viewer access to a reception of the empathic sensory experience of her life..." - Geoffrey Thompson, American Art Therapy Association
Another feeling from the work is a sense of urgency, of profound significance, struggling to be heard, seen and witnessed. There is a hallucinatory feeling after travelling through her work, again signalling the complex contradictions - the scream of silence and stillness. I increasingly found myself asking, where is Shirley Mason?
Mason's art is a living testament to resilience, determination and artistic legacy, in the face of unspeakable trauma. Vigilance pervades the work, searching for understanding, and the elusive comfort, amidst the sadness and poignancy of pain transcribed in every mark, in the affective traces of a hard-fought self-presence. The disquiet posits on of the enduring threads that permeate Mason's art, giving the viewer access to a reception of the empathic sensory experience of her life..."
- Geoffrey Thompson, American Art Therapy Association
more here: https://hiddenpaintings.com/hidden-paintings
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Wednesday, 13 November 2019 00:06 (four years ago) link
In latest dispatch from The Crime Lady (AKA Sarah Weinman, who has written about true crime and edited domestic suspense anthology, also d.s. box set for Library of America):If you are not listening to the podcast You’re Wrong About — and if not, why not, it’s wonderful — they are doing a book club-in-progress on Michelle Remembers, the long out-of-print 1980 tome by Michelle Smith and her psychiatrist (and future husband) Larry Pazder, that was essentially the “Patient Zero” of the Satanic panic. I am beyond fascinated with this story, since it originated in Victoria, BC, and 40 years on, encapsulates everything about the panic in a single story.
― dow, Thursday, 9 April 2020 20:15 (three years ago) link
ooooh
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 9 April 2020 20:35 (three years ago) link
You're Wrong About again, which I found via the QAnon Anonymous podcasthttps://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/human-trafficking/id1380008439?i=1000465289965
The "Taken" version of human trafficking doesn't exist.
― wasdnous (abanana), Wednesday, 16 September 2020 02:18 (three years ago) link
Just noticed that Sybil Exposed is a $1.99 in the ebook stores rn
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 2 November 2022 13:26 (one year ago) link
thanks for the tip!
― (We're Not) The Experimental Jet Set (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 13:43 (one year ago) link
worth every penny!!
― Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 14:29 (one year ago) link
Ha! I seem to recall you reading that upthread.
― (We're Not) The Experimental Jet Set (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 15:04 (one year ago) link
I started this thread
― Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 15:17 (one year ago) link
RIght. I knew that, sorry. Couldn't remember if you read this other book though until I scrolled up later#zingproblems.
― (We're Not) The Experimental Jet Set (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 16:55 (one year ago) link
I’m not salty 😀 I love this story and it’s one of the only threads I’m glad I started!!
― Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 16:58 (one year ago) link
Will read anything Debbie Nathan
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 17:28 (one year ago) link
seems like the whole 'grooming' thing is a 21st reboot of SRA
― Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 2 November 2022 18:41 (one year ago) link
.. and of course, Wayfair shipping children in wardrobes
― Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 2 November 2022 18:42 (one year ago) link
I have read all Debbie Nathan I could find! Has she written anything recently? (Haven’t checked in a while - I remember her being near the US/MX border for a while but idk if she wrote a book)
― Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 19:37 (one year ago) link
What is “the whole grooming thing”? Grooming is a real phenomenon (as are recovered memories tbh) but I’m not aware of it being co-opted?
― Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 19:38 (one year ago) link
It has been co-opted big time
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 20:32 (one year ago) link
That’s unfortunate. My appetite for bad news has been reduced by 200-300% since I started this thread so I’m not keeping very good track of the lunacy.
― Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 20:38 (one year ago) link
as are recovered memories tbh
Ehh...
I'm sure there are genuine instances of this, but the sordid phenomenon of the 80s-90s was pretty awful and really hurt a lot of innocent people
― Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 2 November 2022 20:52 (one year ago) link
I’m aware. They’re still real for people who have blocked out actual abuse committed by people rather than Satan.
― Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 21:12 (one year ago) link
Okay, I going on in. You down with MPD? Yeah, you know me.
― (We're Not) The Experimental Jet Set (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 21:41 (one year ago) link
Sorry
I had thought the concept of recovered memories was controversial within the research psych community because there was evidence that many of these were false memories?
― stank viola (Neanderthal), Thursday, 3 November 2022 08:56 (one year ago) link