Armond White:"Can Jay-Z and Diddy save hip hop?"

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... then all the ghetto folk began to glow like images in a thermal x-ray. Their phosphorescence symbolized life-force, a misunderstood (often misrepresented) energy.

this is pretty funny.

m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:41 (nineteen years ago) link

who knew predator vision had such emancipatory promise?

m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:44 (nineteen years ago) link

reminds me of


http://images.google.ie/images?q=tbn:dce0zKbAxUcJ:www.timelinestudios.com/images

Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Ronan now that you've figured out how to post pictures you're just going nuts, aren't you?

Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:45 (nineteen years ago) link

yes! but that actually did remind me of that!

Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:46 (nineteen years ago) link

how!?

Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:47 (nineteen years ago) link

is that what you think Armond White looks like?

Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:47 (nineteen years ago) link

I agree with Matos. White makes some good points about other hip-hop videos, and about the Making The Band show, but they're overshadowed by his usual misplaced hyperbole. (When determining the size of the salt-boulder you're gonna need to take his opinions with, remember that he's a paid-up member of the Church of Tupac, too.)

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 10:08 (nineteen years ago) link

well that's odd considering that by basic tone of the article you'd think he'd not realized that hip-hop slipped out of new york's sole custodianship some time around 1985.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 10:42 (nineteen years ago) link

I just think he's being shortsighted here, and that his good points ("Most hiphop videos don't document New York so much as portray its mean-streets myth") are outgunned by his not-so-good ones (see Strongo upthread)

i don't see how this video doesn't contribute to the "mean-streets myth," even if it does so with presumably greater verisimilitude (or wider lenses or whatever)

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:09 (nineteen years ago) link

>well that's odd considering that by basic tone of the article you'd think he'd not realized that hip-hop slipped out of new york's sole custodianship some time around 1985.

The article is about how New York is portrayed through rap. Your statement has nothing to do with the article as it exists, everything to do with your rather rabid defensiveness w/r/t current hip-hop, and betrays near-total ignorance of White, who may well be insane, but is a smart guy nonetheless.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Hiphop's brick wall of stereotypes about the city and its inhabitants was erected by the culture itself. And because it's lucrative, those cliches got repeated. Stigmatization is perpetuated every time you see a music video by Lil Jon & the East Side Boyz, Juvenile, Bonecrusher or Nelly that reinforces banalities about the way black people live. In All Fall Down, even director Chris Milk ignores Kayne West's introspection ("We're all self-conscious, I'm just the first to admit it") for t&a.

none of his comparisons are from anywhere close to nyc, smart guy.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:16 (nineteen years ago) link

except for nasty nas.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:16 (nineteen years ago) link

i mean, if he wanted to discuss 50 or the new mobb deep video or even the new ROOTS video (for chrissakes), that'd be one thing. but comparing the "ha" or "country grammar" videos to "99 problems" as an example of its conversely realistic portrayal of life in nyc (yeah, sure) is a bit flawed, to say the least.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:19 (nineteen years ago) link

or "all falls down"!

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:20 (nineteen years ago) link

chi-town raise up

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:21 (nineteen years ago) link

it portrays the harsh realities of airport life

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:21 (nineteen years ago) link

little bitches be squirtin your $600 shirt with mustard! that shit don't come out even with pre-treater!

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:22 (nineteen years ago) link

I actually like his movie reviews. I mean he doesn't shy away from letting you know how he really feels. Also, they tend to be pretty memorable. I think I see his "overblown tendencies" as strong emotional resposes. Not what you usually get with movie reviews, i guess unless you count "hated it" or "loved it."

danh, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:23 (nineteen years ago) link

You miss his point. He's saying that hip-hop cliches w/r/t life in NYC have metastasized into cliches about black city life in general, no matter what city it is. And the "All Fall Down" thing is about fixating on Stacey Dash's ass instead of, I don't know, dramatizing Kanye West's angst or something. I think he's wrong (crunk, among its many other flaws, is totally not city-based music), but that's the point he's making.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:23 (nineteen years ago) link

an INTERESTING tack to take irt the "99 problems" video may have been how out of place it feels BECAUSE nyc is no longer the standard back drop for rap videos. even though, you know, it's not much more than the "ill street blues" video crossed with "closer".

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:24 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost: oh, okay it's just typical nyc chauvinism then, mea culpa.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:25 (nineteen years ago) link

(the current state of rap vids owes way more to compton than nyc anyway.)

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:25 (nineteen years ago) link

you know, ass-fixation and angst aren't mutually inseparable

(xp)

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:26 (nineteen years ago) link

(which was my point above about tupac all along x-post)

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:28 (nineteen years ago) link

How exactly do you hit a brick wall with imagery? Is the "lyrical content" driven by greed or are the lyrics rapped by "greed-driven" narrators? Setting White's argument aside, this is some terrible writing.

Keith Harris (kharris1128), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:30 (nineteen years ago) link


xpost: oh, okay it's just typical nyc chauvinism then, mea culpa.

Haha! (This had in fact crossed my mind but I decided to wait on saying it...)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:32 (nineteen years ago) link

i thought ass-fixation and angst were the same thing?

gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:44 (nineteen years ago) link

I keep thinking the guy's called 'Almond'. It makes his full name sound like an ice cream flavour.

Barima (Barima), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:50 (nineteen years ago) link

Astoundingly bad. I particularly like this line:

"It was not a great day for the race when the entertainment industrial complex took on the artisanal productions of urban youth, eventually taking over their dreams."

Right, because it's fine to let urban youth dream of being celebrated for their talents, so long as they have no chance of actually making any money out of it.

Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:54 (nineteen years ago) link

I agree with Matos.
-- Phil Freeman (newyorkisno...), May 12th, 2004.

first time for everything, right Phil?! ;-)

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:25 (nineteen years ago) link

but Romanek himself summed up the cliches back in '91 when musing on a concept for De La Soul's Ring, Ring, Ring (Hey, Hey, Hey). Chicago-born Romanek lamented, "All rap music videos look the same. They're all shot against a brick wall."

I used to watch rap videos all the time in 1991 and I don't remember them all looking the same at all. I remember pink cadillacs flying in front of the moon, another car ploughing into a burning cross, Queen Latifah knocking giant chess pieces off a board, and scenes shot in Egypt.

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:38 (nineteen years ago) link

when I say terrible film critic, I mean TERRIBLE


Sideburns, ducktails, money, blood and sex–that’s the satirical surface of 3000 Miles to Graceland. Underneath is a pretty fair assessment of American ambition gone wrong. Kevin Costner plays Murphy, a sociopath obsessed with Elvis Presley who rounds up a gang to rob a Las Vegas casino during an Elvis imitators’ convention. If the symbolism’s bloated, so is the idolatry that Costner and director Demian Lichtenstein deride. Presley’s legend haunts the movie as a fat, gaudy, bankrupt ideal that still serves to motivate the disheartened.

Murphy and his partner Michael (Kurt Russell), desert mom Cybil (Courteney Cox) and her ragamuffin son Jesse (David Kaye) aren’t doomed, they’re pathetic, double-crossing each other in ways that suggest the hollowness of life predicated on money; losers who console themselves with the world’s plunder. 3000 Miles’ early climax–the robbery sequence–is the most calamitously violent action scene ever to put a thought in the audience’s mind. Unlike Kubrick’s inexorable fatalism in The Killing, this sequence is just blunt. "As wild and as daring as anything on the American landscape," says a startled tv reporter. (Or else, simply the best contemporary shootout Walter Hill didn’t direct.) Though it’s similar to the kind of pointless bang-bang moviegoers accept as a Saturday Night Special, I vouch for the split-second editing that catches a bullet going through an Elvis cape. And I salute the cut to the exterior that shows a chopper coming to rendezvous with Murphy’s band. Suspended in midair–and time–this image, hovering over the casino, is breathtaking.

The entire movie has the feel of being in moral suspension. Despite the caper plot and bloody intensity, this isn’t a typically cynical neo-noir. That War in Vegas sequence establishes a spangly, neon miasma so that we watch the peacetime story appropriately aghast at the evidence of contemporary dissolution. 3000 Miles tracks pessimistic ex-cons, broken families on the road, boys without role models, casual venality, the familiarity of violence. It’s flashy but it’s also uncanny. The story of Michael’s corruption opposes Murphy’s hopeless corruption (announced in the 3-D credit sequence). It seeks decent, humane gestures (among them, Ice-T keeping thieves’ honor through a spectacular sacrifice) and, with a sense of topsy-turvy grace, moves toward light. Michael, Cybil and Jesse sail off into uncertain political waters just like the characters in Peckinpah’s The Killer Elite. If critics mistake 3000 Miles for a Renny Harlin jamboree (or instead, find it inferior to such trash), it will prove how far we’ve fallen, no longer looking for meaning or emotion in action movies.

No actors are more empathetic than Russell and Costner. Both leathery and wizened, they’re surrounded by character types (David Arquette, Bokeem Woodbine, Howie Long and Christian Slater) distinctive enough to sharpen Jesse’s–our entire culture’s–sense of role-model fatigue. That Murphy, with his scorpion belt buckle, was a Nam medic before going bad signals deep distress that might be vague to today’s audience. Still, Lichtenstein, searching for the right, meaningful detail, uses the action genre as a dramatic form expressing the modern generational dilemma–without being lugubrious like Sean Penn’s The Pledge. Lichtenstein and cowriter Richard Recco come up with a saying for our times when Murphy, in a fight, is told, "That’s your criminal right!" The line transcends sarcasm; it bravely discloses a genuine social imbalance–as in such nonpresumptuous action flicks as George Armitage’s Vigilante Force. I fear that 3000 Miles might speed past many people’s heads just as the 70s road-movie alienation of Duets did last fall. These entertaining little movies hint at Americans’ barely articulated desires for a change of priorities and enlightened models of behavior. That overworked, blustery Elvis image (which serves as a conscripted uniform for Murphy’s gang) should provide a wake-up call even to those who share Greil Marcus’ wet dream.

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:38 (nineteen years ago) link

greil marcus' wet dream?

Sym (shmuel), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:45 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't want to know.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:47 (nineteen years ago) link

you mean you don't share it?

Sym (shmuel), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:58 (nineteen years ago) link

That review makes my heart hurt.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:02 (nineteen years ago) link

He's right, you know. That movie's great.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:10 (nineteen years ago) link

I said I liked the movie upthread, but reading that review you'd have no idea it was actually good.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:12 (nineteen years ago) link

Did you like it for the same reasons or is he just insane?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:14 (nineteen years ago) link

No, I like it mostly despite the things he talks about liking. Yes, he is insane.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:15 (nineteen years ago) link

So I figured.

Seriously, looking at the original article again, what the flying fuck. You couldn't have done a better parody article on the subject if you tried.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:16 (nineteen years ago) link

oops, looks like I didn't like Duets either, sorry.

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Strangely I agree with him some of the time, but he clearly not only thinks he's right about everything, and that not only is everyone else wrong, everyone else is morally suspect and possibly evil.

He has a hard-on for DePalma, Altman, Walter Hill, Alan Rudolph, Tupac, the Smiths, and few others.

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Having a hard-on for Alan Rudolph makes you morally suspect in my book.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Sure hope he googles himself and comes here and complains. I'll be deeply entertained!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:36 (nineteen years ago) link

Fuck him for liking shit like Afterglow and Welcome to LA.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:38 (nineteen years ago) link

The funny part about the New York Press is that he and the other critic (Matt Zoller Seitz) don't seem to like each other, judging from the occasional sniping. Seitz is actually one of my favorite film critics. A more lucid thinker, a better writer, and his opinions always seem to be his own, he's never reacting against what others have said about the film in question.

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:42 (nineteen years ago) link

For the record, I think Walter Hill and Brian Depalma are underrated, too. Altman is overrated though (except for Nashville and McCabe and Mrs. Miller which can't be overrated enough.)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:44 (nineteen years ago) link

The "99 Problems" video is cool, but no one should be paying any attention to Armond White. As a (film) critic, he's so far up his own bungy that he can say "hi!" to Thanksgiving Dinner.

Jay Vee (Manon_70), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:04 (nineteen years ago) link


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