Is rebellion possible?

http://www.soulstrut.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badassbuddy_com-slowburner.gif

i've been worrying lately that by the time my daughter grows up there will be no mode of rebellion left that won't have been co-opted or made to seem ridiculous. which was already starting to be an issue when i was a teen but it seemed like art still had the capacity to shock or make some kind of small difference at least.

She could take down the surveillance state.

There's always Jihadism

i feel like even back in the '50s 'rebellious' stuff was often about how everything was so fake there was nothing left to rebel against (i.e. brando going 'whaddya got?')

there is, and probably will be, a lot of room for rebellion when it comes to shunning technology, ie 2013 cool marlon brando "doesn't even have a facebook account"

cell phone? you can only reach him by fax

The idea that adolescent rebellion has somehow become meaningless or impossible just strikes me as strange. Just repeat after me:

"I hate my parents and/or society. They're all so (insert scornful adjective)."

There. It's a wrap.

i've been worrying lately that by the time my daughter grows up there will be no mode of rebellion left that won't have been co-opted or made to seem ridiculous. which was already starting to be an issue when i was a teen but it seemed like art still had the capacity to shock or make some kind of small difference at least.

― congratulations (n/a), Monday, June 10, 2013 1:36 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the mere fact that you, as her parent, are "worried" she will have no mode for rebellion kind of hilariously illustrates how dead rebellion is.

i didn't really mean social rebellion (against parents/norms/etc), was thinking more about political rebellion - like what is she going to do when the government does something she thinks is wrong? what can she do that will make a difference or an impact? but i might be filtering this through my own feelings of inadequacy about not knowing what to do now about things the government does that i think are wrong

i think this is a genuine/legit worry for our future. or rather our present. i'm tempted to say that popular pressure can make for small victories. but that isn't always true (i live in wisconsin FWIW, and all the protests have made nary a dent in the GOP's plan to turn the state into a fully privatized plutocracy) and small victories can seem like no victories at all when you take the full sweep of political change into view.

i think people assumed that n/a was referring to rebellion-as-lifestyle i.e. Punk© but he's not.

"like what is she going to do when the government does something she thinks is wrong?"

bitch about it on facebook. just as her ancestors did.

work and act locally outside of official channels. teach your daughter to do the same.

most effective "rebellions" against government occur when something severely impacts the lives of those who wind up protesting -- segregation, the draft, etc. "You peeked at our phone records" is just not a significant enough harm to get most people into the streets.

grow vegetables together. read her mezz mezzro's autobiography. teach her how to defend herself. then let her out into the wild.

teach her how to fish too. always a good thing to know.

most effective "rebellions" against government occur when something severely impacts the lives of those who wind up protesting -- segregation, the draft, etc. "You peeked at our phone records" is just not a significant enough harm to get most people into the streets.

also even effective rebellions didn't have immediate results

struggle is its own reward

(i actually think people really need to believe that in order to keep on. unfortunately it's very hard to believe that.)

But it's much easier to believe that when you don't otherwise have a comfortable life at your fingertips.

yes

hash (mmm) tag drunk talk :taking in account that the internet of now helps to create more links of all sorts between people( experiences, goods and services , feels etc) and young people nowadays are getting sort of away from politics and invest their lives into socially conscious businesses , non profit organizations etc maybe in a couple of decades will pop up a need for a kind of news service that informs us of what "we" do, and the ameliorations in other workplaces will rejoice us not because we have a "big heart" but because it makes our life more liveable.

Rebelling is easy: Drink a beer, smoke a cigarette, and listen to rock 'n' roll music.

And/or get a tattoo.

p sure mlle. n/a will find plenty of ways to try to stick an oar in history and if she feels like she can't do that "anymore" by buying clothes and records well no shit right? maybe we're talking about different things here.

work and act locally outside of official channels. teach your daughter to do the same.

― scott seward, Monday, June 10, 2013 4:10 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

nothing wrong with doing that if that`s your bag but i don`t think that counts as rebellion

I think cities half-submerged will do wonders for rebellion.

history of the Aegean says no

half-submerged cities opens up all kinds of waterworld steampunk rebellious ways of dress

but I guess if everyone dresses like they're in waterworld the only way to rebel is wearing a suit or something

in a signifier saturated world the only true rebellion is to wear some old signifiers

"nothing wrong with doing that if that`s your bag but i don`t think that counts as rebellion"

i left out the part about mentally renouncing citizenship and never travelling more than 100 miles from your home and being as self-sufficient has humanly possible.

einh

i guess technically if everyone did that u might consider it a revolution

snark = revolution

idk why u would worry about this in the era of anonymous.

Vote from the rooftops?

xps noodle vague ok but i wasn't claiming that that snarky post was revolutionary!

i just don't think living on a yurt is revolutionary... you're supposed to fight power not just try to live beyond its grasp, right?

that's ok, i was as fucked with myself as you - once revolution becomes a school subject what's left but kicking yourself? too many meetings of like-minded souls bitching each other out?

yeah, revolution is all of us or none of us, you're right

hm. am i shadowbanned or hwattttt?

jokes

n/a's child is john connor

t's s, s s s
(hope u got the beat right)

"Withdrawing in disgust is not the same thing as apathy."

^^ Sounds very Thomist.

"Withdrawing in disgust is not the same thing as apathy."

― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, June 10, 2013 11:09 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No, it's much more narcissistic.

rebellion can be more than one thing.

and everybody doesn't have to do the same thing.

how can you move a table if everyone doesn't lift at the same time

i think scott is working w/ a different definition of "rebellion" than most of us

what if the rebellion in star wars followed scott's suggestions and just found another planet to hang out on? there would be no movies!

yep. it's always frustrating to see people arguing for one avenue over the other when they're both necessary for change. it seems like a common structure of a breakthrough on an issue is 1) tangible and growing public protests, 2) people with access to the current framework of the institution working on realistic alternative policies, and 3) a highly visible event or series of events - financial breakdown, a scandal, a disaster - that draws media and wider public attention to the issue.

There's no doubt in my mind that the big Bonus March on Washington DC during the Hoover administration was useful for pushing FDR into more radical actions when he took over in 1933.

ZS I haven't read Graeber's new one yet, though I've read a few reviews & am considering it. Trying to finish working my way through Black Flame first.

great article on Left Unity http://viewpointmag.com/2013/06/13/dead-generations-and-unknown-continents-reflections-on-left-unity/

yeah thats really really good imo

has anyone read this?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1016828_380734515371512_871868813_n.jpg

i have it but have not read it! i'm told it's good.

Sounds interesting. Is there any evidence of a genuine uptick in people moving "off the grid"? There was a pretty big movement toward that kind of living in the 70s too.

in general, people need to stop thinking about how hippies did things. cuz it seems like a rebuke or something. not you, hurting! just in general. like, people shouldn't try new approaches cuz people did something like that once and now look where we are.

i don't really understand what that post is saying, scott.

i just meant if you mention "living off the grid" a lot of people immediately tie it to 60s/70s/hippies/etc. and it doesn't have to be like that. or worse they tie it to militias/survivalists/cults. it doesn't have to be any of those things.

Living off the grid does require a broad skill set that replaces being plugged into systems that are self-managing. Acquiring that skill set doesn't have to happen all at once, if you don't dive straight into the deep end, but instead select skills you are interested in, one at a time, and learn them as you go along. A lot of the failures among hippies and back-to-nature types in the 70s, when this was big, was a failure to recognize how much they didn't know before they committed to the project. It's more sensible to ramp your way up to it slowly and intentionally.

I think that the "oh that's a 70s thing" comes largely from the widespread failure of most of the people who tried to live off the grid to stick with it.

but yeah what aimless said

I think "true independence" is kind of a ridiculous fantasy, but that's probably something the marketing department came up with right?

has anyone read this?

wtf I am pretty sure I know that building

He edits the Web site Off-Grid.net in back of his RV, using a laptop plugged into a cigar lighter (and a wireless modem plugged into a laptop).

Ok, not gonna bother with this one.

Also has an epigraph by "E.E. Schumacher" (smh)

off the grid = a car battery?

and wireless internet!

there's no grid dude, it's wireless

lol

maybe he just means he pays his wireless bill in cash, or buys re-up cards for it at walmart

Jul 4 70 I have become so obsessed lately with the hopelessness of any rebellion against authority that I can only assume that I have come to a sort of climacteric. I read the political page every day and am continually astounded by what I read.

— Richard Burton (@BurtonDiaries) July 4, 2019

I was around in July 1970 and old enough to see and appreciate exactly what Mr. Burton was reading. Yes, the political state of the USA especially, but much of Europe, was plenty astounding and equally dispiriting.