Drag City

addendum, I do actually think there are people still worrying the studio model in the same insanely luxurious fashion. most of them are in rap - Kanye, Black Hippy guys. Justin Vernon built himself a massive studio in the woods and takes his time getting the record to sound exactly like he wants. But that studio rat model, I believe strongly that the aspect of all the working musicians being together and under the direction of the guys whose vision guides the project, that's actually kind of important to the project. Remote tracking isn't new and has produced plenty of great tracks, and many great albums were recorded at multiple studios, but the process is so different when the presence of the musician is no longer required. IMO only I could be wrong but this is how it seems to me.

xp I happen to agree w/sleeve but that's a controversial position.

really tickled that major label practices that were long excoriated by the likes of Drag City et al in the 1990s are being defended on this thread. Like i hardly am deeply familiar withe the label's doings in the past 15 years, but i never knew those guys or their artists to advocate for maximilist studio fantasias.

JCLC thanks for that explanation, I can see that.

Joan otm upthread and said many of the things I wanted to say but more eloquently, even if we disagree slightly

really tickled that major label practices that were long excoriated by the likes of Drag City et al in the 1990s are being defended on this thread. Like i hardly am deeply familiar withe the label's doings in the past 15 years, but i never knew those guys or their artists to advocate for maximilist studio fantasias

I don't think anyone here is speaking for Drag City, and I'm certainly in no way associated with the label, but I wonder if many of the "indie" veterans are now thinking twice about bemoaning the existence of evil major label gatekeepers now that very few of them are able to carve out even a modest living putting out a record and touring 100 days a year (which, make no mistake, was absolutely possible a few short years ago)

Like i hardly am deeply familiar withe the label's doings in the past 15 years, but i never knew those guys or their artists to advocate for maximilist studio fantasias.

― veronica moser, Saturday, January 7, 2017 12:35 PM (fifty-two minutes ago)

They actually parted ways with label stalwart Liam Hayes for doing such a thing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fed_(album)

Great album btw.

sorta kinda in my case. the downside of the major label system was considerable: you seldom got final say over how stuff sounded. contracts were shiiiiiiitttty. in the present day environment, artists at most levels have a lot more control than they used to, but they also can't avail themselves of the resources I've mentioned -- though they could make records just as lush, only as I mentioned wanting to make those sorts of records at all was somewhat a function of that decried system. only the major players had control/final cut in the auteur system. now it's kind of inverted. the Joan Crawford Band, who makes a good living making music we love, would have been laughed out of the door at every major label with the possible exceptions of Reprise & A&M. that's true of a lot of good bands, and Drag City bands are some of them. who in the old system would have taken a chance on Will Oldham? Bill Callahan? David Berman? Maybe maybe Lenny Waronker. Maybe maybe Clive Davis. But probably nobody.

Even something recorded with a very modest budget of a few grand, like say 3-4 days in a studio with someone like Steve Albini (or home recorded) with mastering for vinyl etc. is going to cost probably at least $5000 (or more). With the costs for pressing vinyl etc, you are going to have to move probably at least 1000 units to even come close to breaking even. If you look at it that way, first press you might be looking a single LP with a base cost of at least $8-12 a unit. CDs would obviously be quite a bit less and getting digital files up for sale fairly negligible after the digital mastering. But you are still going to have to probably do $8-9 grand worth of sales on a title before you are square.

I'd figure guys like Will Oldham that have a long history, this is probably no problem up front, but for others, it might be a dice roll. Does Drag City move that many LPs on each of their title? I don't know, quite a few touring bands you see do LP print runs quite a bit lower than 1000.

I'm not sure if we're taking this to the Stop Thinking of Yourself as a Good Person: The Ethics and Economics of Music Streaming thread or not, but I think there've been lots of great posts itt (great stuff by JCLC)

anyway,

it's interesting you bring up jazz because I doubt the average millennial Spotify junkie could name five working jazz artists that aren't in some way connected to Flying Lotus. Even if they could, they're not exactly 'supporting' them just by merely knowing who they are, and that may be even worse. Without benefactors, this is a music that will more or less cease to exist in any commercial capacity

I also think jazz is a very interesting scene for thinking about these questions. I happen to know a few "professional" jazz players and they are broke - was talking to a drummer the other day, and he was like "I don't even know why I keep doing it - it's so irrational. My pay is terrible, I've no retirement fund etc. etc."

For all the injustice, the main takeaway for me is that musicians (unlike label owners) produce music regardless of the cost. And this is why, ironically, talking about unfair Spotify recompensation can end in a defense of major label Aja-like productions - cause these are perhaps the phenomenon most endangered! Certainly the hardcore diy scene could give a fuck about Napster.

I'm not too acquainted with the conditions for "indie" musicians, but I gather from the latest Okkervil River release that Will Sheff is not very happy abt the state of things...

A final note: as much as I love Aja and Pet Sounds, I'm not sure I'd root for a revivalist aesthetic, and I think RAM was a good indication that replication 70s top shelf production value does not necessarily = good music. That being said, the success of Kaputt enabled Dan Bejar to do some great string arrangements for last years Destroyer record, and that was awesome.

Certainly the hardcore diy scene could give a fuck about Napster

I would have thought this too, but I know a few punk / hc bands on small labels and I can tell you the consequences of Spotify et al have definitely trickled down. The so-called democratization of music that became possible after the toppling of the old system (ie cheap software, digital self-distribution models, etc) has also created a situation where supply now far outweighs demand while the pie continues getting smaller and smaller. More bands / artists than ever = fewer and fewer tenaciously dedicated fans on the sidelines. It affects everything at every level imo

that's surprising to me... I stand corrected!

tbf, I bet a grind / crust / whatever band on a stacked 8-band bill playing a basement / squat on a Tuesday night might not notice any difference, but I'd say that's maybe one possible exception; maybe some of the less ambitious noise bands, too. But I still think those artists are fighting for the attention of a smaller and smaller group of listeners, whether they realize it or not

a few punk / hc bands on small labels and I can tell you the consequences of Spotify et al have definitely trickled down.

I think about this sometimes - how in the mid-nineties, a whole lot of pretty love-it-or-hate-it HC bands could release 7"s and sell at least 500, which is usually the minimum pressing at a plant (1000 was the going minimum actually but you could swing a deal to press 2 records in runs of 500 at once to meet the minimum), and is a number which, if you sell through at even two bucks a copy, lets you recoup & maybe buy a new snare drum. those 50-page-long MRR reviews sections -- nobody was getting rich, but a fair number of bands almost nobody remembers were breaking even or coming close. now? your two songs on Bandcamp will get you a dollar if people hear about it. I don't know, because I'm not current with that scene at all, but I'd imagine the economics of making hardcore are pretty punishing in the wake of Spotify/downloading.

drag citys an alltime great label really respect them just doin their own thing f the system, crazy thing abt spotify et al is not only are musicians not making any more but neither are the streaming services who are doomed to be swallowed by bigger entities who can use them as loss leaders and eventually discontinue them when they lose interest wattba

At the very least, I'm glad we are discussing this like adults (albeit on the wrong thread), because I usually run into a lot of quasi-Darwinist "boo fucking hoo, times are changing, fuck you" derision when I bring up the issue of musicians' vanishing livelihoods

streaming feels the least like following corporate evolution bc you don't need to buy into a medium or format that will be replaced in 5 years. It is the best idea, and I hope we can find a way to make it work well for the artists.

That ship has sailed. We're reverting to previous musical culture regimes (folk music by/for plebes, elite of well-paid pet musicians paid by wealthy benefactors)

and future islands

What you get without streaming is the idea of the pilgrimage - to the record store, or having to wait to get it in the mail, and so on. Given the 70s self-released grails they're reissued (Red Hash, etc.), it's consistent with their ethos that they like having something be exciting to discover instead of available everywhere. Similar to having to roadtrip to Guerneville or Gainesville to see a Will Oldham show, instead of waiting for an annual pass through the Mercury Lounge. (Nothing wrong with that - it's just not them!)

really tickled that major label practices that were long excoriated by the likes of Drag City et al in the 1990s are being defended on this thread. Like i hardly am deeply familiar withe the label's doings in the past 15 years, but i never knew those guys or their artists to advocate for maximilist studio fantasias.

― veronica moser, Saturday, January 7, 2017 8:35 PM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Joanna Newsom got to record her second record with an orchestra and hire Van Dyke Parks, Jim O'Rourke and Steve Albini [though I take it his rates are reasonable as part of his whole deal] on Drag City's dime AFAIK, for which she has repeatedly praised them. I hope it worked out as well for them as it did for us and JN.

Eazy those are really good thoughts - that framework of pilgrimage is something I hadn't really thought about

Full catalog is now on Bandcamp: https://dragcity.bandcamp.com/

"....BANDcamp, that is! Yes, the viral digital world is not a place easily trusted - not when you're a label like ours, with precious cargo that must never be handled frivolously! (Yes, including Final Flesh.) For those who have been urging us to throw all our bands into the deep end of all this mess, we'll meet you mid "stream": the whole fookin' Drag City catalog is now available digitally via Bandcamp! So for all the neophytes out there (you're the ones reading our newsletter, right?), enjoy the complimentary musical wares we've provided - then take advantage of Bandcamp's artist-friendly build to explore the world of ALL Drag City artists (and even some (dis)honorary ones) - and make your downloading decisions with both care and financial abandon. We sure dig this Bandcamp thing - and if it turns out to be worth a penny, then we'll have to consider the further implications of the non-pornographic-side of the internet. Help us help you help us make that decision! Make an extended trip to Drag City on Bandcamp."

whoa

hey, nice

this is rad

oh snap

Finally! Thank you Drag City

only one track to stream per album though so people will still complain about this

that's fine. it's nice to be able to explore all DC artists - so many that i've heard about but never looked into - in one place that is easily browsable and accessible. i know it's all on youtube anyway and i can deal w/ that but this is cool

also i really like the artist thumbnails. i want to chill in meg baird's living room and listen to recorsd

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2015/06/08/meg-baird_wide-4c215cf31a3b6462bf428b21cbb9115d781a604d.jpg

nice

bandcamp is thriving btw https://daily.bandcamp.com/2017/01/24/everything-is-terrific-the-bandcamp-2016-year-in-review/

only one track to stream per album though so people will still complain about this

― na (NA), Friday, January 27, 2017 10:23 AM (thirty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

seems like the perfect arrangement

lol those albums in that pic are so meticulously chosen <3

and yeah one track per album and $9 for FLAC is fine with me

weird that the Half Japanese reissues aren't there

great news!

bandcamp is thriving btw https://daily.bandcamp.com/2017/01/24/everything-is-terrific-the-bandcamp-2016-year-in-review/

― lag∞n, Friday, January 27, 2017 4:01 PM (eighteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

just want to note that the second comment underneath this was left by someone from the band Primitive Radio Gods

that is the standard press pic for meg baird afaik
i've seen it a bunch of times

Full catalog is now on Bandcamp: https://dragcity.bandcamp.com/

OMG

only one track to stream per album though

oh

Re: Half Japanese reissues—I'm guessing they aren't on there due to the recent reissues on Fire.

Re: Half Japanese reissues—I'm guessing they aren't on there due to the recent reissues on Fire.

(Inadvertent double post, obvs.)

oh hmm I did not realize that Fire had reissued the 1981-85 material! thanks.

Hey, it's a start, welcome to the 21st century Drag City

Meanwhile

1994! A great year for Drag City releases is now is available at your fingertips on @AppleMusic ! pic.twitter.com/veJV5mnVFl

— Drag City (@dragcityrecords) June 23, 2017

The Royal Trux and Palace stuff doesn't seem to be available (for me anyway)

seems like most of their catalog is up on spotify. notable exceptions from a brief search include jim o'rourke, joanna newsom, will oldham, red apple falls

Disappointed to hear that one of the last holdouts finally gave in. Streaming music is for lames

otm

I don't see any

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