Drag City

Only Wimmels knows the degree to which we're burnt

Congratulations: you are my uncool cousins, Bjork and Roy Orbison

xp new 6O has Chris Corsano on it too, he is awesome (and part of what I love about Rangda)

i probably said this on the BBs thread, but part of the reason i think Drag City not being on streaming is good is that it miiiiiiight make "uncool cousins" realize that there is a world of music out there that isn't just spotifiable. and that might generate a little interest in the world outside of the computer. or it might just generate more insufferable snobs like us, probably.

it is not difficult to make music that is unspotifiable. I don't understand how this is a good or impressive thing.

it's the coolest!

(i don't know, i'm not really making sense)

insufferable snob generator is the name of my new band

well, better get your stuff on Spotify or no one will know it exists

that name's not as good though

the thing that's annoying about the "if your music isn't on Spotify no one will know it exists! Think of the exposure!" argument is that it neatly elides the fact that there are bajillions of bands on Spotify that no one knows about. It is not a promotional tool, unless you pay Spotify to promote you/expend resources working it as a PR tool, which will quickly eat up the miniscule revenue generated by Spotify.

Well, but I think it can be argued that it can be an auxiliary promotional tool if you are getting promotion in other ways and people can then check you out on Spotify.

people do ask "are you on Spotify?" when they e.g. work with you in some personal capacity (kids' teachers etc) and if you say yes, they go listen, and then a week later they say "I looked you up! say, I enjoyed the song I knew from the tv show!" - I guess outis's objection here would be "that translates into maybe one album sale for you, not really a huge promotional gain" but I'm gonna get three bucks of that sale and I can use three bucks so it counts for me. not as great a promotional tool as radio, ever, let's be honest, just because somebody still has to go "I'm going to listen to this": the passivity of radio engagement had huge promotional value. but Spotify as a promotional adjunct, it's got its uses ime.

As opposed to just typing your bandname into a search engine and being taken to band's page w soundcloud or bandcamp or other music links

yeah I mean -- you're a lifelong music fiend posting on a music board. that's obvious to both you and me. I can't imagine it's surprising to you that there's a gigantic segment of the population for whom a few very comfortable uses of technology are the go-tos. I utterly guarantee you that there are many many people (like, millions) who'll go as far as "I'm using spotify, I'll type in that band's name" who aren't about to google a band, pick a link, and pursue it that far

That's true. How many of those ppl are likely to dig Drag City bands? I would wager not a lot.

As opposed to the music nerds here complaining that DC's catalog is not on spotify - which is essentially entitled whining.

what I am reporting to you as a working musician is that the positive effect of availability on Spotify is real, measurable, and valuable. the same people who dig what I do -- the appeal of which is inherently self-limiting -- would be as likely to dig Bill Callahan for sure.

They've also been the label never to advertise (Chunklet excepted), never to license their songs to Starbucks/Chipotle, and so not being on streaming services feels like a natural continuation of that. And their artists know what they're getting into with that.

still doing it the right way, they are

i haven't been following this revive closely but i will say that i've liked a lot of dc acts over the years but given my limited time for new listening these days i'm gonna pick the new record that's on spotify over the new record that's on dc which i won't be able to play without 5 minutes of effort on my part.

like, it's a great label but i don't think they have a strong enough brand to override other forces at work.

otm. Though I did buy insignificance the other month because I loved it in high school and hadn't heard it in years. I don't think I love it anymore, so good work, DC.

"I kinda wish their stuff was on Spotify"="entitled whining"

Jesus.

I guess it kind of fits that most of DC's roster now is indie-grandpa music and y'all are yelling at clouds.

I just wish they kept selling t-shirts. Have a Viva Last Blues one I'd pray to fit into to.

Also: don't think Oldham, Callahan, Berman besides being old man indie have problems with a label that's given them notoriety and which they've never left. Give me a list of Drag City refugees... I can't think of any.

i probably said this on the BBs thread, but part of the reason i think Drag City not being on streaming is good is that it miiiiiiight make "uncool cousins" realize that there is a world of music out there that isn't just spotifiable. and that might generate a little interest in the world outside of the computer. or it might just generate more insufferable snobs like us, probably.

hehe I like this post

what's up with bitchin bajas, what a weird name for a band, listening to a song called "bueu" on youtube rn and it's awesome, is that the album to get? if so I'm buying the shit out of that cd, won't even bother to look it up on spotify

bought 'Dream River' for a friend last year and he did seem to have like a eureka moment when he realized this awesome music was not on spotify

They've also been the label never to advertise (Chunklet excepted), never to license their songs to Starbucks/Chipotle, and so not being on streaming services feels like a natural continuation of that. And their artists know what they're getting into with that.

yeah this is OTM for the most part. of course their stuff is avail on iTunes, whose royalty rate is set by Apple and non-negotiable, which you'd think would be a sticking point for the purer-than-pure but hey, a sale's a sale

I know O'Rourke doesn't want his music on Spotify because of sound quality issues rather than royalty rate issues, wonder if other DC artists feel the same way

I just wind up thinking about Drag City a lot less often because they don't come up in the main channels I use for checking out music.

This is such a strange viewpoint IMO. I mean, what were you doing five years ago when Spotify wasn't available?

http://i.imgur.com/zSb64B1.png

It’s interesting how Drag City doesn’t have any of their stuff on Spotify. I work in a restaurant, and I’m always trying and failing to play Trux or your solo music.

Neil Hagerty: There actually is one streaming service they license to, but it’s very specific to a hotel chain, or a hotel lobby, or some restaurants that are a part of its network. But that’s a different, smaller service. Personally, I’m for having the music in every venue where people can hear it, but I defer to Drag City for those things. I don’t make those decisions, they do. Personally, I would let it go out in any format that would give more people the opportunity to hear it, you know? But that’s a separation of our interests. They’ll feel another way, and I’ll defer to them on those issues.
http://bombmagazine.org/article/6931428/neil-michael-hagerty

This is such a strange viewpoint IMO. I mean, what were you doing five years ago when Spotify wasn't available?

― donut, Friday, January 6, 2017 7:56 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I believe man alive was analyzing why DC is unintentionally not at the top of mind these days, based on how music consumption habits have changed. That's how I read it.

xp i don't have a problem w/ DC not being on streaming services but the weird thing to me is not deferring to the artist's preference here.

(assuming there are a number of other DC artists like hagerty that would otherwise be fine w/ streaming services)

I could be wrong here, but I thought Spotify was an "all in all out" sort of situation wrt labels. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

which would mean if a handful of (relative) cash cows rejected the idea of their music being available on Spotify, everyone else would have to follow suit

There have definitely been cases of big artists pulling just *their* catalog, but maybe they have their own dedicated publisher or something?

Like Taylor Swift isn't there but other Big Machine albums are

I'm pretty sure this is all about the bottom line w/The Drag City folks and making sure their artists get a fair shake, which I find admirable. But, the other side of the coin is that DC vinyl is rather expensive, usually $20.00 or more for a single LP. That's a tall order.

the main issue i have remains the same and has nothing to do with spotify -- if i buy the LP, i want to be able to listen elsewhere and a downloadable option costs extra which means i pay like $30 for an album

and i am happy to give money to my favorite artists i just feel like it's inhumane to their loyal longterm customers to squeeze that hard
i go to shows too
will probably just focus on buying vinyl at shows i guess

From Will Oldham's AMA on Reddit last year: (https://www.reddit.com/r/indieheads/comments/51n7bz/ask_me_anything_will_oldham/) on subject of Drag City policy:

giraffeking
Hey Will, do you agree with Drag City's philosophy of not allowing their music on streaming services? And with their stance, do you worry about not reaching an audience that would want to listen to an album first before buying it?

bonafide138 (Will Oldham)
I don't know. we don't eat a meal before deciding if we'll pay for it. we don't wear clothes before buying them. we don't see a movie before buying the ticket. streaming is pretty bogus, it feeds the entitlement mentality. there are more vital audiences that I worry about reaching, besides/in addition to those who are dependent on a computer/smartphone and a wireless signal to listen to music

firetruckfiretruck
I get your point and agree to an extent, but we most definitely do try on clothes before buying them. Changing rooms?

bonafide138
Drag City puts up a streaming song prior to the release of almost every Drag City record. This might parallel the experience of trying on an item of clothing in a 3x3 flourescent-lit box, with price tags and security devices still attached to the garment.

Dr_Pickle_Fingers
Drag City is my favourite label and has been so for about 15 years. Times have changed, though, and it is sadly less convenient for me to listen to my many Drag City albums. I have to pull out all my old cables and such.
My point is this: I would totally pay a monthly subscription to Drag City for a Drag City streaming/download service. You, Joanna Newsom, Bill Callahan, Silver Jews, Faun Fables, Baby Dee. Hell, it'd be a better library than Spotify.

bonafide138
this is good news.

blacktoast
Will I love your music and I've been a listener for many years, but your viewpoint on this is deeply out of touch. I found your music through peer-to-peer sharing, as I've found most of the artists that I listen to and enjoy. Most people that are excited about hearing new music today are doing so using an internet connection, and that's not an "entitlement mentality" that's just the media climate that we're in. To expect people to continue to buy CDs in lieu of finding music on the internet is naive.

FearStalksTheLand
Just so you know I was a huge fan, and I have bought a lot of your music. The times have changed and I don't carry a iPod I can put my music one anymore. I have not heard any music from you in 6 years or so. In my mind you fit in the entitled audience of Neil Young of people who think they can dictate people listen to music.

bonafide138
Where Neil Young has created a new form of file and would like listeners to buy new gear, I say please keep your record player, your tape player, your CD player. Don't spend money following corporate evolution unless you feel you have to. And you can find almost all of my music on YouTube. So I don't get your point.

xpost (coincidentally!)

Oldham's talked a lot in interviews about how the 200/300-person club is the ideal size for performing, and how he wouldn't want the norm to be larger than that. I'm assume there are other DC artists who similarly want that level of success/fame, versus a label that will take them to the next level. And similarly not just with music placement but with their lives in general. There's certainly a level then of "how do they afford to live?" but if that's taken out of the equation, ideally the artists are working at the level they want to be working at.

Been interesting to see Adult Swim take DC's ethos to television.

Oldham's talked a lot in interviews about how the 200/300-person club is the ideal size for performing

totally agree w this, personally.

I'm an old that doesn't stream but I do use Youtube if I need to.

Drag City will endure all these streaming services imho... Spotify lost a tremendous amount of money last year, purportedly one quarter of one billion dollars, lol.

i stream & pay for spotify premium but would never begrudge an artist or label who decides it's not for him

Drag City will endure all these streaming services imho

idk how they do it but this is v likely to be true

Don't spend money following corporate evolution unless you feel you have to

so simple yet so otm

yup