& considering there is no equivalent for 'more', and we seem to get along fine.
― the year of diving languorously (ledge), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 09:06 (seven years ago) link
this drives me crazy, but i never correct ppl on it because it's hard to find a non-obnoxious way to do it
also gave up a while back on correcting ppl who say "i could care less"
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 09:09 (seven years ago) link
It's difficult not to be obnoxious when you're trying to enforce the oppressive cultural encoding of quantity!
― Dr Drudge (Bob Six), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 09:17 (seven years ago) link
If it can be counted as individual things (buttons, cars), it is fewer.
If it is measured as an amount of one thing (water, flour), then it's less.
― Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 11:12 (seven years ago) link
What really annoys me though is people saying 'over' when they mean 'more than'. Over is a preposition, you fucking cretin.
― Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 11:13 (seven years ago) link
i don't have a good mnemonic for it
― mahb, Tuesday, 20 December 2016 11:32 (seven years ago) link
Insisting there's a logic behind it is a bit strange, considering the absurdities of:
Use less when you’re referring to something that can’t be counted or doesn’t have a plural (e.g. money, air, time, music, rain)
from the page already quoted by Camaraderie at Arms Length
― Dr Drudge (Bob Six), Tuesday, December 20, 2016 4:05 AM (eight hours ago)
why is this absurd?
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 20 December 2016 17:32 (seven years ago) link
Because it's an rather arbitrary stylistic choice - there's no 'logic' behind it.
His weight fell from 18 stone to less than 12.
Are you really arguing that we use 'less' in this case because "there are more measurements between 18 stone and 12 than only 13, 14, etc (there is 12.5, 16.3, etc)"?
― Dr Drudge (Bob Six), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 19:34 (seven years ago) link
No, you use "less" because unless you're in an Ed Gein situation, one does not think of the units that make up "weight" as discrete objects.
― ¶ (DJP), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 19:42 (seven years ago) link
this is one of those weird linguistic things i instinctively understand and always get right in writing but if i'm not paying attention nearly always get wrong in speech
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 20 December 2016 19:54 (seven years ago) link
* there is a logic behind every grammatical choice we make, might be a ridiculously convoluted logic, but there is one anyway.* 'fewer' is slipping out of use, the only reason I teach it is because it's a standard thing on IELTS etc., and the sooner it's gone the better.
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Tuesday, 20 December 2016 21:04 (seven years ago) link
Oh, and this was a good read re: piraha - http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/tom-wolfes-reflections-language/
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Tuesday, 20 December 2016 21:05 (seven years ago) link
This is one of those rules that serves no useful purpose and nobody has ever been misunderstood because they used "less" instead of "fewer", so even if I sometimes get bothered by this sort of thing (not this one specifically, but other similar things), I never point it out because I know that the problem is with me and not the person who said or wrote this.
― silverfish, Tuesday, 20 December 2016 21:21 (seven years ago) link
http://www.thatdanny.com/wp-content/2008/11/one_fewer_one_less_survey.gif
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 20 December 2016 21:30 (seven years ago) link
this discussion has moved on from what the precise usage is at this point, i think. everyone understands
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 20 December 2016 21:35 (seven years ago) link
is the pizzeria still trendy if not as much people are going there these days
― estela, Tuesday, 20 December 2016 21:42 (seven years ago) link
'nobody goes there anymore -- it's too crowded.'
-- bob marley
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 20 December 2016 21:46 (seven years ago) link
children in pizzerias is the probable culprit
― estela, Tuesday, 20 December 2016 21:55 (seven years ago) link
one of those cases where more is less, eh?
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 22:08 (seven years ago) link
What a great thread. Language is what makes us human.
― it's the distortion, stupid! (alex in mainhattan), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 23:05 (seven years ago) link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_language
― Rock Wokeman (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 23:11 (seven years ago) link
That article is a good read, and I like the image comparing the patterns of languages with the recursive patterns of the nautilus and the snowflake. Thinking about the aesthetic qualities of language tempers my negativity somewhat.
― Dr Drudge (Bob Six), Wednesday, 21 December 2016 00:24 (seven years ago) link
“more and more fewer”ALMOST
― calstars, Friday, 22 June 2018 21:18 (five years ago) link
So this just came up
― The Ballad of Mel Cooley (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 00:08 (three years ago) link
usually worth ignoring, unless it's in a professional writing/editing capacity
― Judge Roi Behan (Aimless), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 00:56 (three years ago) link
unfewer
― scampsite (darraghmac), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 01:16 (three years ago) link
There's a site whose search function I use for work every day, which is set up to offer 'more options' or 'less options' and, well, it's been years now and I'm still not over it. It hurts me in my heart.
― The Mandolinrainian (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 01:22 (three years ago) link
enumerable -> fewerunenumerable -> less
― ciderpress, Monday, December 19, 2016 3:59 PM
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 23 February 2021 01:26 (three years ago) link
Proxy feul
― scampsite (darraghmac), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 01:39 (three years ago) link
Every express lane ever: “10 Items or Less”GAHHH
― calstars, Tuesday, 23 February 2021 01:41 (three years ago) link
who cares, we don't have two words for 'more'.
― ledge, Tuesday, 23 February 2021 08:49 (three years ago) link
caring about this is reactionary
― Towards a Britain-Free Planet (Left), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 09:14 (three years ago) link
"well actually i think you'll find the true meaning of decimate is..." fuck off
― Towards a Britain-Free Planet (Left), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 09:16 (three years ago) link
Ok you got me, i call
― scampsite (darraghmac), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 09:21 (three years ago) link
nobody has ever been misunderstood because they used "less" instead of "fewer"
― Towards a Britain-Free Planet (Left), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 09:29 (three years ago) link
Try fewer
― scampsite (darraghmac), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 09:30 (three years ago) link
Using less for fewer sounds okay: there were less people in the store today than yesterday.
Using fewer for less sounds terrible: I put fewer gas in the car today than yesterday.
I'm posting right now because I get fewer sleep since I retired.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 23 February 2021 09:32 (three years ago) link
Use the fewer of two evils, clem?
― scampsite (darraghmac), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 09:36 (three years ago) link
less makes sense there because people use it like that, fewer doesn't because people don't, but if they started doing so it would
― Towards a Britain-Free Planet (Left), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 09:36 (three years ago) link
I guess that's true, but if enough people started using book when they meant apple, you'd get used to that too. It's not a big deal to me, and I'd certainly never correct anyone, but the distinction seems basic enough. It's one of those grammar things I actually enjoyed teaching to kids, because you could make them laugh through intentional misuse.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 23 February 2021 09:47 (three years ago) link
This rule is great because some of you lads have a lot of energy to burn off
― The Scampo Fell to Earth (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 10:01 (three years ago) link
Swear to god nv i deleted a post that said "are you burning calories at this or what"
― scampsite (darraghmac), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 10:02 (three years ago) link
High five or fewer
― The Scampo Fell to Earth (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 10:04 (three years ago) link
fewer is greater
― buzza, Tuesday, 23 February 2021 10:14 (three years ago) link
The fewer of two evils.
― pplains, Tuesday, 23 February 2021 11:42 (three years ago) link
Oh I see dmac already took that one.
Forgive me, I just had a less things to get off my chest.
― pplains, Tuesday, 23 February 2021 11:44 (three years ago) link
i could really care fewer
― Towards a Britain-Free Planet (Left), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 11:51 (three years ago) link
Everything is fewer than zero, hey!
― The Ballad of Mel Cooley (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 13:38 (three years ago) link
Fewer, less, what does it really matter, I try not to let it bother me that many
― The Mandolinrainian (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 13:41 (three years ago) link
I know it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but this is one I do notice. "12 items or less" sounds just as jarring to me as "How much items do you have?"
― Lily Dale, Tuesday, 23 February 2021 14:30 (three years ago) link
Pardon me, sir, I believe you mean to say 'how much items does you have'.
― The Mandolinrainian (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 14:36 (three years ago) link
OMG, that appears to be more of a thing than I ever would've thought
'how much items do' - About 2,340 results (0.41 seconds)
― The Mandolinrainian (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 14:38 (three years ago) link
there's so much less examples of "x or fewer" around that i would find that jarring. it's weird people feel strongly about this. usages that are common and understood within the language aren't wrong, irregardless of what people were taught
― Towards a Britain-Free Planet (Left), Tuesday, 23 February 2021 14:49 (three years ago) link
If you didn't see it, the last post on the second-thoughts thread, pertaining to this one, is pretty great.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 23 February 2021 15:08 (three years ago) link
“Hopefully this year will allow us less virtual and more socially distanced in person events!”Shut the fuck up
― calstars, Monday, 20 September 2021 00:13 (two years ago) link
i find myself caring about the distinction fewer and fewer
― ✖, Monday, 20 September 2021 00:26 (two years ago) link
It feels good to have the knowledge necessary to draw a fine distinction that is rarely required, unless it spoils your ability to discern when it isn't required and turns you into a monster.
― it is to laugh, like so, ha! (Aimless), Monday, 20 September 2021 01:17 (two years ago) link
I get paid to make prose conform to the preferences of whoever is paying me at any given moment. Right and wrong are irrelevant, it is just about market forces and my wish to keep my children fed.
― Richard Marxist (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 20 September 2021 04:51 (two years ago) link
Grammar Nazis sure do love their Fewer.
― LTJ Jenkem (Noel Emits), Tuesday, 21 September 2021 16:22 (two years ago) link
I enjoy the distinction tbh.
― LTJ Jenkem (Noel Emits), Tuesday, 21 September 2021 16:23 (two years ago) link