Taking sides: Children vs. (non-human) animals

i have/want neither children nor dogs but it doesn't seem too far-fetched that other people might. or so i gather from looking around

also seems possible that creatures might have worth outside of their ability to entertain me/avoid interrupting my conversations about cancer

don't throw your back out moving those goalposts

xp

what a bizarre thing to say

every single parent that has said 's/he is so articulate' has referred to a child that talks pretty much like most kids i've heard

and their 'complex thinking' is that of an average child of course. kids are empty vessels and whatever words you teach them do not have the same depth of meaning they do for adults

unclear on how kids differ from adults based on these parameters

articulate adults - they talk p much like most other adults!
adults are empty vessels that use whatever words they've been taught
complex thinking is that of an average adult

blah blah blah

maybe you could start by defining what you mean by the words "child" and "complex thinking" cuz it's clear as mud to me

children's emotional intelligence do not improve drastically as far as i've seen til they're about 8, 9 or 10 32

^^^

but an adult surely has more potential of life experience than someone who has been alive, say, 5 years

xp

― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, December 15, 2016 1:00 PM (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the baby on the rooftop tragedy was a fatal combination of silliness and gravity

sorry i dont really think complexity of thought is necessarily correlated with life experience

xp

I am unclear on how an adult's "potential of life experience" is related to complex thinking. There are plenty of adults who couldn't reason their way out of a paper bag after a lifetime of experience.

every single parent that has said 's/he is so articulate' has referred to a child that talks pretty much like most kids i've heard

my example was my own kid bc that's who i have most experience talking w/ but i pretty clearly said this is the case for any verbal child ive talked to

it's very easy

the older the person the more potential for life experiences

that's pretty clear. why would i think a 5 year old has something more interesting to say than a 30 year old?

in practice, maybe a 30 year old may be as dumb as a doornail but the potential to better express his/herself is there

wait how is ability to express oneself related to complexity of thought, those are totally different things

children are rarely conscious of the complexities of their own feelings unless they can articulate them, and this is limited by their vocabulary and limited experiences

my first kid blew people away when he was little. with the way he spoke. he was kinda bizarre that way. he could read when he was two. probably like a lot of you braniacs. he's way smarter than me already and he's 14.

tbqf i've been exposed to more interesting things in the 5+ years i've had a kid than i have been in any five year period of my life since i myself was a kid. i think it's just taking what i normally do in my own time and adding on top of it more museums, more art, reading about astronomy and dinosaurs and marine life and math and language and what not. i think in trying to keep him engaged with interesting things, i'm more engaged as well. it's made me less cynical (in some ways) and certainly more understanding towards other parents. and like scott i never had much interaction with kids before we had ours. holding a baby, never! jeez i might drop the thing. it sounds moronic maybe but at a certain point before he was born i sort of imagined what kind of dad and by extension of that what kind of person i wanted to be, and i've tried hard to manifest that and be a better and more thoughtful and patient and kind person than i was before. i'm amazed at other parents who can become supermoms or superdads and have their four kids and volunteer daily at school and run shit, it's crazy what they can accomplish. i don't have the time or ability i'm just trying to raise a good kid and an empathetic person, and i feel lucky that a) he's surrounded by good people and has good friends, and b) he had a kind heart (though he's not above slapping the living hell out of me when he has a meltdown.) anyway, parenting is not easy and the ones who sacrifice to give their kid a better upbringing deserve admiration and not scorn because they suddenly seem boring. i find myself, personally, far less bored now at 42 than i was when i was 24 or 28 or whenever.

here's an example: I was talking w my 8yo about how the sun works the other day, what it's composed of, why it gives off light and heat, etc. some of the things involved are pretty complex (nuclear reactions, how elements are formed, that kind of thing) - by contrast I know plenty of adults (like, say, my 70yo mother) who, after a lifetime of experience, couldn't tell you a goddamn thing about how the sun works.

xp

not to take anything away from cyrus. he's really smart too.

I could read at 3, I turned out to be an idiot tho

put a baby on a rooftop and s/he will kill her/himself

― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, December 15, 2016 4:03 PM (sixteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This reads like a lifehack

children are rarely conscious of the complexities of their own feelings unless they can articulate them, and this is limited by their vocabulary and limited experiences

what do feelings have to do with anything, I hate listening to people blabber about their feelings

xp

here's an example: I was talking w my 8yo about how the sun works the other day, what it's composed of, why it gives off light and heat, etc. some of the things involved are pretty complex (nuclear reactions, how elements are formed, that kind of thing) - by contrast I know plenty of adults (like, say, my 70yo mother) who, after a lifetime of experience, couldn't tell you a goddamn thing about how the sun works.

xp

― Οὖτις, Thursday, December 15, 2016 1:23 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that was you teaching your child something

we're talking about children's ability to have an interesting, deep, emotional, or intelligent conversation. at that point, your child was not even aware of those scientific phenomena so it was hardly a conversation

not to take away from any child's ability to comprehend facts and the natural operation of the world. i think most kids are very capable

that's funny I don't remember telling you who said what in our conversation but way to assume shit

lol

i'm assuming you gave enough info to (1) make your point and (2) for me to refute it

but anyway

still cool with kids

i hate to be one of those people, but i do think kids at their best tend to be better people in general. before they get ruined by life. it's not just the innocence thing, it's more than that. it's that freshness. and that includes thinking. and expressing themselves. and creating. playing. they are some sort of ideal as far as people go. and i know i just said that most of them bore me. and they do bore me, but i would say 1 to 10 is kinda the coolest time to be human if you are the curious sort or excited by new things. learning can be so exciting for kids that age. and its sad that the end result can be a dull adult who trudges through life. it's the best time to watch your kids become people too. it's cool.

it's true that she was (in part) repeating things that she had been taught (hey, just like adults do!), but the more important aspect of the conversation was that she was able to answer questions I put to her by extrapolating from the facts she had learned to draw conclusions - which is complex thinking that most adults don't bother with cuz they're just "eh I'll look it up on wikipedia if I ever have to"

xp

that was you teaching your child something

we're talking about children's ability to have an interesting, deep, emotional, or intelligent conversation. at that point, your child was not even aware of those scientific phenomena so it was hardly a conversation

not to take away from any child's ability to comprehend facts and the natural operation of the world. i think most kids are very capable

― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, December 15, 2016 4:27 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol this is dumb. "the conversation you had was in my opinion not interesting, deep, emotional or intelligent."

eh at this point if your argument is that children are not capable of having an "interesting, deep, emotional or intelligent conversation" i don't know why im going to bother

can't wait for you guys to agree

hey outic

its a strange thread for parents to double down on the wonderment of parenthood iycwim

― loudmouth darraghmac ween (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 December 2016 19:28 (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

being as pissy as lex from the other direction is still u getting pissy as lex in an internet thread about children vs dogs literally an internet thread about children vs dogs cmon ta fuck

scott (and Picasso) otm about the creativity thing too - "all artists are children"

xp

sorry darraghmac I'll try to throw more comedy joeks in

I'm sure lex will love that

Yah I'm interested in all those brain & personality development parts of kids too, in fact between that and giving/receiving affection I think those are basically the only reasonable reasons to HAVE kids. But I would just need to keep my interactions with them to about 1-2 hours a day. Basically I would make an OK kind of dad who is never responsible for bedtime and retreats into his study after dinner, that's kind of my ideal.

darragh people have spent almost 2 decades on this site you honestly dont tihnk people are gonna get pissy, it happens it is okay

Except when lex does it, apparently.

mehhh im done

these tacos are too tasty

"mehhh im done"

spoken like a true adult.

on a message board

these tacos are too tasty and I need to poop

could you articulate your feelings more clearly plz

the chili is givin me an existential crisis

much better

it's cool. a little lite trolling never hurt anyone. if you ever want to drop some of that adult critical thinking on here though, just go for it.

marcos otm throughout obv

What a weird read! I don't know what I have done as a father. I don't feel like I especially encouraged my daughter to walk, when she wanted to stand up I helped hold her hands, and then one day , she just stood up and started walking. Same with talking, I read to her, but never feel like I was a speech therapist teaching her to speak, one day she just started talking. I'm in awe of my child everyday, because she amazes me. My heart goes out to parents with children that have needs different than my child. I'm probably a boring parent.

nobody puts Baby on a rooftop

*dirty dances away from this disaster*