I don't get why you are equating complex thinking with political issues
xp
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 15 December 2016 20:59 (seven years ago) link
but an adult surely has more potential of life experience than someone who has been alive, say, 5 years
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:00 (seven years ago) link
their frame of reference is more limited, but there is a lot of complex thinking that goes on within that
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:00 (seven years ago) link
i never really thought about kids until i had kids. i didn't know many kids. none of my friends had kids. the first time i ever held a baby was when we had a baby. didn't come from a family with lots of kids. i know more kids now obviously. they're okay. most of them are pretty boring. i like my kids because that's how it works. i am definitely more sympathetic towards parents and more tolerant when i see/hear kids acting up or screaming or babies crying or whatever. they don't bother me. because i've been there.
― scott seward, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:01 (seven years ago) link
children are emotionally underdeveloped
you want them to talk deep about what it feels that they can't eat an extra cookie? or that they accidentally peed/pooped their pants?
there is no complex thinking a child can produce because of limited and less varied experiences. their world is too highly controlled
put a baby on a rooftop and s/he will kill her/himself
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:03 (seven years ago) link
Things kids are often v interested in exploring/talking about that def involve complex thinking: the natural environment, mechanical processes, basic physics, animals, the list is p long. Limiting complexity to the vagaries of human social constructs is p arbitrary.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:04 (seven years ago) link
but teach a baby to fish
― banfred bann (wins), Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:07 (seven years ago) link
what age are these pooping kids anyway? two?
i realize the FA symbol person is being silly, but is he/she talking about toddlers? i guess he/she must be. since he/she is talking about babies on rooftops.
― scott seward, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:07 (seven years ago) link
yeah idk
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:09 (seven years ago) link
those were random examples dude
children are limited by their vocabulary as well
every single parent that has said 's/he is so articulate' has referred to a child that talks pretty much like most kids i've heard
and their 'complex thinking' is that of an average child of course. kids are empty vessels and whatever words you teach them do not have the same depth of meaning they do for adults, but parents get mesmerized when they can speak like adults
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:09 (seven years ago) link
children's emotional intelligence do not improve drastically as far as i've seen til they're about 8, 9 or 10
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:11 (seven years ago) link
i have/want neither children nor dogs but it doesn't seem too far-fetched that other people might. or so i gather from looking around
also seems possible that creatures might have worth outside of their ability to entertain me/avoid interrupting my conversations about cancer
― mookieproof, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:13 (seven years ago) link
don't throw your back out moving those goalposts
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:14 (seven years ago) link
what a bizarre thing to say
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:14 (seven years ago) link
and their 'complex thinking' is that of an average child of course. kids are empty vessels and whatever words you teach them do not have the same depth of meaning they do for adults
unclear on how kids differ from adults based on these parameters
articulate adults - they talk p much like most other adults!adults are empty vessels that use whatever words they've been taughtcomplex thinking is that of an average adult
blah blah blah
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:15 (seven years ago) link
maybe you could start by defining what you mean by the words "child" and "complex thinking" cuz it's clear as mud to me
children's emotional intelligence do not improve drastically as far as i've seen til they're about 8, 9 or 10 32
― sam jax sax jam (Jordan), Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:16 (seven years ago) link
^^^
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:16 (seven years ago) link
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, December 15, 2016 1:00 PM (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:16 (seven years ago) link
the baby on the rooftop tragedy was a fatal combination of silliness and gravity
― estela, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:17 (seven years ago) link
sorry i dont really think complexity of thought is necessarily correlated with life experience
― marcos, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:18 (seven years ago) link
I am unclear on how an adult's "potential of life experience" is related to complex thinking. There are plenty of adults who couldn't reason their way out of a paper bag after a lifetime of experience.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:19 (seven years ago) link
my example was my own kid bc that's who i have most experience talking w/ but i pretty clearly said this is the case for any verbal child ive talked to
― marcos, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:19 (seven years ago) link
it's very easy
the older the person the more potential for life experiences
that's pretty clear. why would i think a 5 year old has something more interesting to say than a 30 year old?
in practice, maybe a 30 year old may be as dumb as a doornail but the potential to better express his/herself is there
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:19 (seven years ago) link
wait how is ability to express oneself related to complexity of thought, those are totally different things
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:20 (seven years ago) link
children are rarely conscious of the complexities of their own feelings unless they can articulate them, and this is limited by their vocabulary and limited experiences
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:21 (seven years ago) link
my first kid blew people away when he was little. with the way he spoke. he was kinda bizarre that way. he could read when he was two. probably like a lot of you braniacs. he's way smarter than me already and he's 14.
― scott seward, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:21 (seven years ago) link
tbqf i've been exposed to more interesting things in the 5+ years i've had a kid than i have been in any five year period of my life since i myself was a kid. i think it's just taking what i normally do in my own time and adding on top of it more museums, more art, reading about astronomy and dinosaurs and marine life and math and language and what not. i think in trying to keep him engaged with interesting things, i'm more engaged as well. it's made me less cynical (in some ways) and certainly more understanding towards other parents. and like scott i never had much interaction with kids before we had ours. holding a baby, never! jeez i might drop the thing. it sounds moronic maybe but at a certain point before he was born i sort of imagined what kind of dad and by extension of that what kind of person i wanted to be, and i've tried hard to manifest that and be a better and more thoughtful and patient and kind person than i was before. i'm amazed at other parents who can become supermoms or superdads and have their four kids and volunteer daily at school and run shit, it's crazy what they can accomplish. i don't have the time or ability i'm just trying to raise a good kid and an empathetic person, and i feel lucky that a) he's surrounded by good people and has good friends, and b) he had a kind heart (though he's not above slapping the living hell out of me when he has a meltdown.) anyway, parenting is not easy and the ones who sacrifice to give their kid a better upbringing deserve admiration and not scorn because they suddenly seem boring. i find myself, personally, far less bored now at 42 than i was when i was 24 or 28 or whenever.
― nomar, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:22 (seven years ago) link
here's an example: I was talking w my 8yo about how the sun works the other day, what it's composed of, why it gives off light and heat, etc. some of the things involved are pretty complex (nuclear reactions, how elements are formed, that kind of thing) - by contrast I know plenty of adults (like, say, my 70yo mother) who, after a lifetime of experience, couldn't tell you a goddamn thing about how the sun works.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:23 (seven years ago) link
not to take anything away from cyrus. he's really smart too.
― scott seward, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:23 (seven years ago) link
I could read at 3, I turned out to be an idiot tho
― banfred bann (wins), Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:23 (seven years ago) link
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, December 15, 2016 4:03 PM (sixteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This reads like a lifehack
― Evan, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:24 (seven years ago) link
what do feelings have to do with anything, I hate listening to people blabber about their feelings
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:24 (seven years ago) link
― Οὖτις, Thursday, December 15, 2016 1:23 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
that was you teaching your child something
we're talking about children's ability to have an interesting, deep, emotional, or intelligent conversation. at that point, your child was not even aware of those scientific phenomena so it was hardly a conversation
not to take away from any child's ability to comprehend facts and the natural operation of the world. i think most kids are very capable
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:27 (seven years ago) link
that's funny I don't remember telling you who said what in our conversation but way to assume shit
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:28 (seven years ago) link
lol
i'm assuming you gave enough info to (1) make your point and (2) for me to refute it
but anyway
still cool with kids
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:31 (seven years ago) link
i hate to be one of those people, but i do think kids at their best tend to be better people in general. before they get ruined by life. it's not just the innocence thing, it's more than that. it's that freshness. and that includes thinking. and expressing themselves. and creating. playing. they are some sort of ideal as far as people go. and i know i just said that most of them bore me. and they do bore me, but i would say 1 to 10 is kinda the coolest time to be human if you are the curious sort or excited by new things. learning can be so exciting for kids that age. and its sad that the end result can be a dull adult who trudges through life. it's the best time to watch your kids become people too. it's cool.
― scott seward, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:32 (seven years ago) link
it's true that she was (in part) repeating things that she had been taught (hey, just like adults do!), but the more important aspect of the conversation was that she was able to answer questions I put to her by extrapolating from the facts she had learned to draw conclusions - which is complex thinking that most adults don't bother with cuz they're just "eh I'll look it up on wikipedia if I ever have to"
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:32 (seven years ago) link
that was you teaching your child somethingwe're talking about children's ability to have an interesting, deep, emotional, or intelligent conversation. at that point, your child was not even aware of those scientific phenomena so it was hardly a conversationnot to take away from any child's ability to comprehend facts and the natural operation of the world. i think most kids are very capable― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, December 15, 2016 4:27 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, December 15, 2016 4:27 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lol this is dumb. "the conversation you had was in my opinion not interesting, deep, emotional or intelligent."
eh at this point if your argument is that children are not capable of having an "interesting, deep, emotional or intelligent conversation" i don't know why im going to bother
― marcos, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:32 (seven years ago) link
can't wait for you guys to agree
― banfred bann (wins), Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:33 (seven years ago) link
hey outic
its a strange thread for parents to double down on the wonderment of parenthood iycwim
― loudmouth darraghmac ween (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 December 2016 19:28 (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
being as pissy as lex from the other direction is still u getting pissy as lex in an internet thread about children vs dogs literally an internet thread about children vs dogs cmon ta fuck
― loudmouth darraghmac ween (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:33 (seven years ago) link
scott (and Picasso) otm about the creativity thing too - "all artists are children"
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:34 (seven years ago) link
sorry darraghmac I'll try to throw more comedy joeks in
I'm sure lex will love that
Yah I'm interested in all those brain & personality development parts of kids too, in fact between that and giving/receiving affection I think those are basically the only reasonable reasons to HAVE kids. But I would just need to keep my interactions with them to about 1-2 hours a day. Basically I would make an OK kind of dad who is never responsible for bedtime and retreats into his study after dinner, that's kind of my ideal.
― If authoritarianism is Romania's ironing board, then (in orbit), Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:34 (seven years ago) link
darragh people have spent almost 2 decades on this site you honestly dont tihnk people are gonna get pissy, it happens it is okay
― marcos, Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:35 (seven years ago) link
Except when lex does it, apparently.
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:36 (seven years ago) link
mehhh im done
these tacos are too tasty
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, 15 December 2016 21:38 (seven years ago) link