But Will There Be Corgis? Thread Where We Discuss Netflix's THE CROWN

The antiroyalist perspective is also missing from Game of Thrones, Excalibur, Frozen, Cinderella, and Star Wars iirc.

Are you being serious? In case y
ou are, this series is clearly framed as a fair realistic and multifaceted look into the role of the monarch in a modern society, while

...Cinderella isn't. So it's not unfair to accept the former to address the huge question that's inextricably tied to its central theme. Cinderella deals with something totally different than the justification of the position of the monarch.

"it's not unfair to expect"

i would say it's framed as a fair realistic and multifaceted look into the role of the monarch in a modern society from the perspective of the monarchy and the people who support it

there are like character perspectives in the season from maybe two people who aren't part of the monarchy or supporting government and one of them gets hit by a bus

it's framed as a fair realistic and multifaceted look into the role of the monarch in a modern society from the perspective of the monarchy and the people who support it

Exactly. My examples were over the top on purpose, but if you want different ones they can be supplied. Johnny Cash biopic that is silent on punk rock. Nature documentaries that fail to address the booming nightclub scene. The point is merely that perspective and canvas size are a legitimate concern in making entertainment.

Yes, there is a story to be told about people who don't give a shit about the Duke of Whatsis and the Marquess of Thingydoodle. This is not that story. If you want to film that story go do it; no one is stopping you.

this series is clearly framed as a fair realistic and multifaceted look…

no it isn't, not at all: it's framed as the exploration of an institution and a practice and a belief system strictly as it impacts on the people right in the middle of it, the human drama of the logic of the constitutional issues, which it takes unexpected care to lay out, making little attempt to explore anything beyond the palace walls except insofar as it affects the central characters, and that's one of its strengths IMO

you're also wrong abt the journalists being set up as the villains: the villain in the destruction of margaret's happiness is -- according to how you judge elizabeth's decision to commit to royal duty -- either the institution of monarchy itself (its ruthless sacrificial demands, if you like, and elziabeth courageously bowing to them) or else elizabeth, treating her setting her duty ahead of her firm promise to her sister as a kind cowardice

if they're royalists -- not at all evident to me -- then they're royalists taking an unusually icy and unsentimental view of the monarchy at this particular time: they really dig down into the harshness of this choice elizabeth has to make (in contrast to david, who as edward viii followed his feelings, an act which, as the queen mum's furiously argues and eliziabeth clearly believes, basically killed his brother bertie aka george vi); it's the central topic of this whole first series

in other words, she portray her as faced with a choice between two modes of cowardice, equally unpleasant personally -- and the approach the makers have (fairly rigorously and i think rather admirably) taken is teasing out the contradictions and ugliness of the entire thing from within; and not making a song and dance of them, or giving us anti-royalists anyone to identify with. i think if someone were parachuted to give a nice wave&wink to us moderns that yes, this entire thing is foolish and we know better now, it would be much harder to do that, besides being fairly ahistorical (obviously plenty of people existed in the early 1950s who believed the institution was a bad thing, but they weren't people elizabeth was routinely engaging with)

(it's going to be really interesting in the next series -- when the next phase of anti-colonial activity will greatly ramp up: the mau mau uprising in kenya and so on -- what their treatment is going to be… it's much more ticklish material than anything they faced so far, and their approach may come to pieces, along with my defence here) (i don't have high hopes of the project in the medium term, i think it's bitten off more than it's likely to be able to chew, but so far i've been surprised and impressed)

i think the version you have in mind, tuomas, would just have sentimentalised both sides of the argument -- basically turned into into an earnest and anachronistic op-ed discussion of the pros and cons of a particular constitutional arrangement… what they've done is much more interesting and much more daring, besides i think being truer to quite how alien britain after the war in the early 50s is to us (exhausted, much poorer, with its empire and its might slipping away, determined to believe, not entirely unjustifiably, that almost alone of the european nations 1939-45 it hadn't compromised with fascism, that its ancient institutions had something to be said for them… except also knowing they were going to have to change anyway, and how is this going to happen, and what's it like to be right in the middle of it, from the perspective of a young, fairly bright, very stubborn, extremely oddly educated woman, who never get to resign and move out of the spotlight)

anyway, you should be on my ROBA thread talking abt finnish police procedurals

(its ruthless sacrificial demands, if you like, and elziabeth courageously bowing to them)

^this needs unpacking a bit, since it's not unreasonable to see it more as her "courageously" sacrificing her sister's happiness -- the kind of courage i mean is her basically accepting her role in this is to be the shit, and seen as the shit, becuase that's what duty IS (which she and her dad understand, unlike her uncle who ran away from it); lol a bit like nixon's "secret honor" in the altman film

i said up thread that duty and the ethos of service is an unusual topic for a modern drama, and i stick with this -- even my lovely procedurals rarely explore this element of police life, and when they do it's explored collectively: "the crown" is abt elizabeth's solitude (except for her uncle, who she loathes)

the villain in the destruction of margaret's happiness is -- according to how you judge elizabeth's decision to commit to royal duty -- either the institution of monarchy itself (its ruthless sacrificial demands, if you like, and elziabeth courageously bowing to them) or else elizabeth, treating her setting her duty ahead of her firm promise to her sister as a kind cowardice

Or, in the way the series presents it, E. being machiavellianly manipulated by the machinations of Mustache Lascelles. Who may himself have been operating out of what he thought were good motives - preserve the mighty institution as opposed to the teeny feeeeewings of mere mortals - or he may have just liked the power he could exercise behind the scenes. E. could have chosen to go against all that institutional weight in order to keep her word to her sister, sure. But she also felt she needed advice/advisors, as she was alone and adrift in uncharted territory.

well, yes, lascelles is pretty much presented as the Face of How Things Must Be Done for most of the series, but by the end we know that E is getting a sense of what her powers (and capabilities) actually are, esp.after we see her face down churchill, so the margaret decision ends up being at least partly E's decision, rather than purely the system' inflexibility (as manifested in the mustache gormenghastly tradition)

incidentally i mentioned claire foy's resemblance to my mum's friend to my sister, and my sister said "oh, really?" (she hadn't watched this) and we googled CF and called up some pictures and my sister said "oh. my. god."

mark s otm itt

based on that post, one might think you thought that was a photo of people

It is a photo of the royal personages, which is equally true, whether it is a photo of actual royals, actors, or wax dummies at Madame Tussaud's. Or photoshopped.

Or, in the way the series presents it, E. being machiavellianly manipulated by the machinations of Mustache Lascelles. Who may himself have been operating out of what he thought were good motives - preserve the mighty institution as opposed to the teeny feeeeewings of mere mortals - or he may have just liked the power he could exercise behind the scenes.

this is an interesting type; reminded in a way of francis urquhart in the end of 'to play the king' who says something like, "my family came down with james the first, when you were a pack of german nobodies." the crown is a thing that can't ever be stable enough or legitimate enough for the people closest to it

i have trouble discerning the intent of the show but i think the critique of monarchy -- an idea that everyone has to serve, or beat themselves into a particular shape to serve -- is there

(xp) Looks nothing like Philip for a start.

they really dig down into the harshness of this choice elizabeth has to make (in contrast to david, who as edward viii followed his feelings, an act which, as the queen mum's furiously argues and eliziabeth clearly believes, basically killed his brother bertie aka george vi)

grim irony here in showing everyone smoking, esp mum on her deathbed. but elizabeth doesn't, right?

don't think we see her smoking -- the internet says she smoked as a teen but gave up after the war

i need to rewatch this tbh

she chides Philip for smoking at one point

yeah iirc her father's death put her off smoking for life or something to that effect

Ep 9 is damn good - the portrait of WC and the (vastly dramatised?) marital strife bet. QE and Philip.

She should have known what she was getting into, marrying a Time Lord and all.

started watching Victoria, UK really liking to biopic it's regents right now it seems. Crown is much better than Victoria btw which suffers from that ITV 'no scene longer than 45 seconds' problem

The old Masterpiece Theater series of Lillie and Edward the Seventh made me an Ed7 stan. Dude had his problems but he appears to have known how to live: drinking, fucking, eating, and living in lavish palaces.

We watched episode 9 last night and I have just found this picture of IRL Margaret, which I feel needs to be shared.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/5c/f6/9e/5cf69ef5597b7a7a7c2277313f793f78.jpg

Has Anthony Armstrong-Jones showed up yet? He's dead now anyway.

Nope, presumably he surfaces in the next season.

This is pretty fun. Pip Torrens as Tommy Lascelles takes the cake, and looks so much like Dirk Bogarde it's scary.

really looking forward to series XXI of this, with claire foy in yards-deep wrinkly rubber make-up and a euro-flag hat first doing a reverse diana on the then-PM, then winking cheekily back at the PM's successor as he stands flanked by the wicker giants GOG and MAGOG, and the entire worshipful company of fully automated luxury communists

I'm in.

All hail (in season 3) Queen Olivia.

http://ew.com/tv/2017/10/26/the-crown-claire-foy-olivia-colman/

Claire Foy is a babe

I like the way they say "The Crown has found its new star," like they searched far and wide for Olivia Colman.

i like her though

she will make a good, tired, really kind of fucking over this shit Lizzie

Oh, me too! It's just that "finding" her is hardly the Scarlett O'Hara search, is all I meant.

She will be brilliant.

Looking forward to Mountbatten getting blown up.

So much money pumped into this overblown project, and there are hardly any decent story arcs!

I hear there's a surprise main character death a few seasons down the line

Hope Lord Lucan turns up at some point.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51RCFJ79K0L._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Surely there's room for John Bindon hanging beer glasses off his todger?

This is so much better than any other Netflix show

i think it will get continue to be good sadly

also it is not better than REINA DEL SUR, the one true queen imo

Season 2 run date: December 8th. VG will stock up on tea and blankets and take the entire weekend off.

seriously tho is this the season where they explore brenda’s origins as a 12ft baby-eating lizard person

They will never be bold enough to reveal that these people are all fucking worthless fascist scum and all deserve to die in a pile of their own excrement.

but no, they to live to be 200 with titanium hips and bairns blood transfusions from Africa.

Ah so that's how James Cameron is rebooting The Terminator.

Sorry, I will shut up for the benefit of fans of this series. But these fucking people ..

oh shit YES i cannot wait

and as I have expressed previously, i am an on-record royals-hater... BUT this show is v v good

On board

Nice interview with Foy (I like the bit about how she's changed up her hair now that she's done with the role). Some spoilers, sorta.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/nov/29/the-crowns-claire-foy-im-a-deeply-angry-person-on-some-levels