Taking sides: Children vs. (non-human) animals

I feel the opposite of lex, dogs seem like such a pain compared to children, and they're guaranteed to die within like what 15 years?

and such small portions etc

at this point i'm not 100% certain lex knows where adults come from

Lex, I think you are drastically overestimating the malleability of adults.

which is a source of some wonderment itt, you have to admit

at this point i'm not 100% certain lex knows where adults come from

i don't see what relevance it has? i am interested in food, i am interested to know from a distance where it comes from, i have no interest in actually physically being on a farm.

Lex, I think you are drastically overestimating the malleability of adults.

malleability isn't what necessarily interests me about adults tho. i'm not especially invested in shaping them.

Good recent posts, I feel better now than I did before, sometimes anxiety can be overwhelming! I have limited reserves!

i am all for lex hating kids. sheesh, let the guy hate kids.

this thread got long! don't know if i can read it all.

i think we can all agree that people who REALLY love dogs want to have sex with dogs though, right?

Woofbert Woofbert

Somebody up the road from me actually got convicted for getting Hot under the Collie :p

Man's best friend with benefits

bad parenting -vs- people who want to control and dominate and yell at their captive dogs every day

i mean people legally get to walk around in public with a living creature on a leash and they are constantly yelling at and choking these innocent creatures. closet nazis, if you ask me. or maybe not even so closeted.

but those fuzzy little guys are cute. don't get me wrong. BAD DOG!

i gain understanding about these things from observing and spending time with (and talking to) adults, which...p much goes for the rest of your post too? fully-grown humans are really fascinating to learn about. what i'm saying is i don't get why there's any more ~wonderment in engaging with children than with people who have been and are still being shaped by the world, and who can actually articulate that

― lex pretend, Thursday, December 15, 2016 8:42 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i agree with that! the wonderment specific to children though is that formation is in its nascent stage and it is way more dramatic because those basic assumptions that adults often take for granted are still being questioned and developed. adult humans obviously can do that too. but to brush off that development happening in kids bc you can just say "oh that's true for adults too" i think is missing something very important about childhood.

also kids CAN articulate that!!! my 4-year-old (and just about any other verbal kid that i know, really) ) asks remarkably sophisticated questions about the world and shares insights that most adults might take for granted. talking to him about stuff is obviously different than talking to an adult but imo is not any less interesting. children are incredibly articulate about things if you meet them where they're at.

Parents vs. animal owners would be a funny poll.

I suspect lex got caught in a negative feedback loop in his interactions with and thoughts about kids and has not been yet forced into a position of intimacy with a child sufficient to break that negative cycle. He expects the worst and finds it.

Old Woman Who Lived in a Shoe vs. Old Macdonald

also kids CAN articulate that!!! my 4-year-old (and just about any other verbal kid that i know, really) ) asks remarkably sophisticated questions about the world and shares insights that most adults might take for granted. talking to him about stuff is obviously different than talking to an adult but imo is not any less interesting. children are incredibly articulate about things if you meet them where they're at.

― marcos, Thursday, 15 December 2016 18:36 (forty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

again this is nice but imma say right now that no yr four year old does not converse at the level of a sophisticated adult

that is not what he said

and i mean caveat im sure you have a bright kid and good conversations with same etc

xp its not what he was asked either tho!

nb im nkt v invested here but its a strange thread for parents to double down on the wonderment of parenthood iycwim

takes the ile hivemind off trump for a few hours

xp its not what he was asked either tho!

he was not asked a question, do keep up

to sum up my position (for those who care); parenting is a trip, non-parents will never really understand it, lex is a clown the end

has not been yet forced into a position of intimacy with a child

please rephrase this

not all intimacy is sexual, dan

children ask very basic questions for sure

i mean parents seem to get something more out of them because of context -- the parent-child relationship

so they read into these simple questions extravagant metaphors and philosophical inquiries

but a kid basically just worries when he will eat, when he will poop, and what game s/he's playing next, but for a brief second asks why little jimmy can't play with a kid, parent says some half-truth, and thinks deeply about race relationships and injustices in the world, then drives away in their hybrid/gas-guzzling car

but a kid basically just worries when he will eat, when he will poop, and what game s/he's playing next

this is not accurate ime

i love basic questions so much

the best is hearing what answers dads give on the street

theyre not capable of thinking in complex ways due to their lack of real life experience

you can talk to them about social justice, the environment, equality, but it ends there. their reactions cannot be compared to an adult and are scientifically primitive

children are megalomaniacs and thinking contrary to that sounds pretty silly

^ Yeah, but plenty of adults don't know what the fuck they're talking about. I side with Laurie Anderson on that one

I don't get why you are equating complex thinking with political issues

xp

but an adult surely has more potential of life experience than someone who has been alive, say, 5 years

xp

their frame of reference is more limited, but there is a lot of complex thinking that goes on within that

xp

i never really thought about kids until i had kids. i didn't know many kids. none of my friends had kids. the first time i ever held a baby was when we had a baby. didn't come from a family with lots of kids. i know more kids now obviously. they're okay. most of them are pretty boring. i like my kids because that's how it works. i am definitely more sympathetic towards parents and more tolerant when i see/hear kids acting up or screaming or babies crying or whatever. they don't bother me. because i've been there.

children are emotionally underdeveloped

you want them to talk deep about what it feels that they can't eat an extra cookie? or that they accidentally peed/pooped their pants?

there is no complex thinking a child can produce because of limited and less varied experiences. their world is too highly controlled

put a baby on a rooftop and s/he will kill her/himself

Things kids are often v interested in exploring/talking about that def involve complex thinking: the natural environment, mechanical processes, basic physics, animals, the list is p long. Limiting complexity to the vagaries of human social constructs is p arbitrary.

put a baby on a rooftop and s/he will kill her/himself

but teach a baby to fish

what age are these pooping kids anyway? two?

i realize the FA symbol person is being silly, but is he/she talking about toddlers? i guess he/she must be. since he/she is talking about babies on rooftops.

yeah idk

those were random examples dude

children are limited by their vocabulary as well

every single parent that has said 's/he is so articulate' has referred to a child that talks pretty much like most kids i've heard

and their 'complex thinking' is that of an average child of course. kids are empty vessels and whatever words you teach them do not have the same depth of meaning they do for adults, but parents get mesmerized when they can speak like adults

children's emotional intelligence do not improve drastically as far as i've seen til they're about 8, 9 or 10

i have/want neither children nor dogs but it doesn't seem too far-fetched that other people might. or so i gather from looking around

also seems possible that creatures might have worth outside of their ability to entertain me/avoid interrupting my conversations about cancer

don't throw your back out moving those goalposts

xp

what a bizarre thing to say

every single parent that has said 's/he is so articulate' has referred to a child that talks pretty much like most kids i've heard

and their 'complex thinking' is that of an average child of course. kids are empty vessels and whatever words you teach them do not have the same depth of meaning they do for adults

unclear on how kids differ from adults based on these parameters

articulate adults - they talk p much like most other adults!
adults are empty vessels that use whatever words they've been taught
complex thinking is that of an average adult

blah blah blah

maybe you could start by defining what you mean by the words "child" and "complex thinking" cuz it's clear as mud to me

children's emotional intelligence do not improve drastically as far as i've seen til they're about 8, 9 or 10 32