Taking sides: Children vs. (non-human) animals

xp I noticed that as well but one battle at a time for me

whenever lex talks about ppl being privileged i remember that photo he posted of himself lounging on a cruise ship in view of a tropical island and remember that he's more privileged than probably 99% of ilx posters.

https://www.childhelp.org/child-abuse-statistics/

why would I suggest children suffer oppression it is truly a mystery

guys i don't think this angle of argument is a good look

Children are not oppressed as a class. Lex is right. But many children face oppression and a lot of them have hard lives and it is gauche to act like they are little more than irritating pets people want to force on you.

Tbh i dont think i actually like being around children, especially. I was a teacher and got moved from high school to middle school and haaaatttted it. But like, i don't feel righteous in having limited patience and empathy ya know.

that's exactly how i feel. i feel like a curmudgeon or a dickhead if i get narky feelings towards children. they don't know any better than to behave as they do, they are essentially having fun, trying to learn about life, mostly p harmless. maybe that's overly self-flagellating but i don't think so.

it's the same to me as feeling waves of misanthropy but never defining myself as a misanthropist, trying to see positivity in people, trying to recognise when negativity might be coming from my own problems or my own negative experiences.

misanthrope not misanthropist, god...

Everybody here trying to outdo each other in trenchant commentary about how bad and rong Lex is about children is really ...something

I periodically have to spend time with 2 of them now and I dread it, the looks of expectation from their parents and grandparents as inside inner peace is being obliterated

Children are not oppressed as a class. Lex is right. But many children face oppression and a lot of them have hard lives and it is gauche to act like they are little more than irritating pets people want to force on you.

― Treeship, Tuesday, December 13, 2016 10:28 AM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yea i agree with this. i don't feel the antipathy toward lex that others do itt. lex is smart, i value his thoughts on a lot of things, he is prob one of my favorite posters in certain ILM threads, his support of women and POC artists throughout his writing career is awesome. i just tihnk his opinion itt is incredibly small-minded and dumb. there are 2 billion kids in the world ffs. 1 billion of them live in poverty, they are vulnerable group of humans and are abused and denied of their value all the time. i don't think it is an interesting or fun opinion to celebrate how much they annoy you esp when you are basically just tihnking about rich kids in strollers in london

Everybody here trying to outdo each other in trenchant commentary about how bad and rong Lex is about children is really ...something

― El Tomboto, Tuesday, December 13, 2016 10:34 AM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ill cop to this sure

guys i don't think this angle of argument is a good look

You're probably right and I shouldn't have taken the bait.

I'll just leave it at "Expressing discomfort at being around people for their innate attributes is pretty shitty."

preemptive clusterfuck summary: fuckin' ilx

― Dave Plaintive rapper with classical training (imago), Monday, December 12, 2016 8:04 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

At least it's not about the election.

arguably this last election was between a child and a hawk!!!!11!!!

And everyone's moms and dads are to blame

sad!

children are a worse pizza topping than animals in general but a better pizza topping than dogs in particular

dogs in particular and animals in general are both more welcome in bars tho

Dogs in pubs <333333

Such joy just thinking about them

I like pub dogs because they are exactly the right duration of dog for me

what about dogs in a pub that serves child-topped pizza

An enormous dog stood up and put his paws on my shoulders and I had a meltdown, this in the house that has the two childrens in it, its like a house of horrors

what about dogs in a pub that serves child-topped pizza

vs?

children running a pizza pub for dogs

http://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-uccqetzglt/product_images/uploaded_images/maggie-w-label.png

former xp

https://images3.newscred.com/Zz1mZWYzODI0ODNlMGE2NTg1MDFiOWE3YmUxNGZhMDU3Mg==?height=480&width=800

the smile of a dog who knows who the good boy is <3

surprised you don't consider it an insult to call a dog "boy"

I find it exhausting to perform the emotional dance of keeping their attention and interacting w them for a few hours much less the next 25-30 years. Maybe it's less tiring when you know them well and you don't have to perform but for me it's all emoting and trying to read them 24/7.

This is illuminating, but also at odds with my experience.

You know that saying that dogs have owners and cats have staff? My children are on their best behavior for others (to them, a babysitter or teacher is an authority figure). They tend to treat me as staff.

lol yes that's even more terrifying

A propos of upthread I know ppl with kids who you can still have a conversation with while the kids amuse themselves, and then I know ones where the child is used to interrupting by yelling and demanding immediate attention and the parent obliges every time, which isn't about the nature of children as much as boundaries and compromises parents make. It's still extremely tedious though.

My mother did a good bit of hand-wringing to me on the phone last night over her grief in not having more grandchildren. She says out of the 4 kids she birthed, you'd think she'd get more than one grandson out of it, and I especially should hurry up and give her grand-daughters to dote on. I'm like, sure, figure out how I'm going to ship them to you to be raised and you're going to explain to my dad that in your retirement years of leisure you decided to be a parent all over again.

A propos of upthread I know ppl with kids who you can still have a conversation with while the kids amuse themselves, and then I know ones where the child is used to interrupting by yelling and demanding immediate attention and the parent obliges every time, which isn't about the nature of children as much as boundaries and compromises parents make. It's still extremely tedious though.

the nadir i've witnessed of the latter was one friend talking about her mother's breast cancer to another friend (with toddler), and mid-sentence the latter just...switched her attention to her child with no warning or acknowledgement

most conversations are not as serious as that, fortunately, but the tendency to abruptly abandon conversations when children wander up is pretty common in parents

please allow me to repeat myself: parents are now and have always been the real enemy.

Especially when they want become GRANDPARENTS. the horror.

Especially when they want become GRANDPARENTS. the horror.

the tendency to abruptly abandon conversations when children wander up is pretty common in parents

And without any "excuse me" etc. Parenting totally erodes people's manners and they act like oh well it's because I'm a dad now! Sorry, no, not acceptable. Chew your food first, then talk, and don't use your kid's vernacular when talking about yourself. It's not funny. You're the grown-up.

I genuinely believe that there is a certain subset of people who welcome the birth of their offspring with no small degree of joy that they can now engage in public improprieties reserved only for breeders. And they're horrible people and I feel like I can spot them from all the way across the biggest playground in my city.

special circle in hell reserved for adults who say "I have to go potty" about themselves

i think the issue of there existing kids that have shitty lives is somewhat separate to lex not being delighted by being around kids (probably in fairness likely to be kids that dont have shitty lives)

i speak as a former kid with a shitty life and not as a general fan of lex but this got a bit ridic tbh

curious as to why lex was so inundated by under-sevens in the first place

i think the issue of there existing kids that have shitty lives is somewhat separate to lex not being delighted by being around kids

oh sure it is i agree . lex is prob talking about rich kids in london but instead he frames it as "why would anyone have kids? you can't talk to them, they interrupt you, they are loud and annoying , fuck these monsters" etc

and tombot otm re parents not kids

i agree with those hypothetical questions tho

i love kids and i love to give them back and i love to judge parents as soon as an otherwise adorable bundle of potential person irritates me in the slightest

why would anyone choose to own on in 2016 tho i mean its a terrible idea.

curious as to why lex was so inundated by under-sevens in the first place

― mookieproof, Tuesday, December 13, 2016 5:39 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

got a few too many friends with them now (luckily plenty without, and without any intentions of having them, as well). the various social gatherings all only got good once all the parents and children left. the worst offenders were strangers though, may i never again end up in a christmas fair like the one populated by apparently 5 million screaming toddlers running straight into you from all directions and their awful parents

they can smell sneer you know

i totally understand people not enjoying the company of children and never wanting to spawn, but what kind of Christmas fair isn't going to be a child magnet? or at least a parents-dragging-their-unwilling-and-unhappy-kids-around magnet?

i've learned my lesson! i was expecting at least mulled wine and snacks and somewhere reasonably peaceful to sit. there were none of these things. i lasted 10 horrendous minutes

lex pictured at left:
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia-cache-ec0.pinimg.com%2F736x%2F51%2Fdd%2F85%2F51dd85b5d75559cdd99bdf85925fb74a.jpg&f=1

mulled wine makes parenting so much easier, and then so much harder