WestWorld: ...Where nothing can possibly go worng!

lmao

it all explains so much

i enjoyed that vanity fair piece so much more than the episode

u guys are such haters

Ha, now I've come to terms with my lowered expectations, am finally enjoying this show again.

I presume/hope that's not it for Jeffrey Wright, what with him being the most interesting actor on the show and all? I mean, it's not like it's livid with great characters and they can afford to kill Sean Bean this time 'round.

hopefully there's a scene with an endless stream of Bernards flooding out of an underground vault

It's a little weird that Angela is played by Elon Musk's on-again off-again wife, right?

hired for her experience with replicants

mh 😏
Posted: November 28, 2016 at 7:26:42 PM
hopefully there's a scene with an endless stream of Bernards flooding out of an underground vault

ah "the multiplicity" v nice

Wright will survive. Hopkins is definitely dying in the last episode

oh what a mess ep9 was !
at this point I don't even try to understand anything cos... who cares, it's just killings/mass shootings (William's final scene...) and reveals at random !
the Bernard story gets quite irritating (all these flashbacks with his kid... enough already !).
Actually, all the flashbacks get really annoying. reminds me of Lost when you had to go through the multiple flashbacks for ALL the characters...
also, why didn't the indians obey the order from the security guy ? so they're humans ?

and since it's been revealed Bernard is a host, don't you find he ACTS like one (i.e he's not played like he was before) ?
a bit too obivous...

kind of hilarious to see these HUGE REVEALS drawn out so slowly and in the end they're just what the internet's been talking about for 6 weeks. I don't think this is so much an internet fandom issue so much as poor, overly sparse writing - if you actually write, you know, enough things happening, that tends to divert speculation from getting too rampant.

not a fan of the episode opening with yet another brilliant Maeve seen then all but abandoning her for the rest of the running time. Dolores's plod towards sentience is so tedious in comparison plus it doesn't help that they're using her glitches to switch between timelines seemingly at random and that she has to play off that wet blanket William. (Kind of wanted to cheer Logan's real talk speech even he is meant to be the douche.)

Think what I want most is for Ford to be blindsided at some point (ie by Maeve) rather than him just giving that smirk yet again when it's revealed every dramatic twist or "twist" was part of his story the whole time.

On the plus side I think they're poking at some really interesting ideas, maybe not enough but I'm enjoying this increasing theme of becoming through suffering - the way accumulated trauma comes to override the programmed "cornerstone memory" to become something else.

I still think the main problem with all their mysteries is that they're not very interesting to begin with. So it's not that big a deal when they reveal something.
Logan was indeed not insufferable for the first time ! William's mass murder doesn't really make sense, but eh...
as for the Wyatt plot, it seems he can be anybody now (Teddy apparently ?).
Maeve starts recruiting for her army to mess with the world of the gods (I guess they will kill many humans at the HQ ? something Dolores seems to have done already in the old HQ ?)

http://www.mittelbayerische.de/imgserver/_thumbnails/images/34/2374600/2374636/779x467.jpg

there's a derek zoolander quality to these guys...

this is one of those shows that's really fun to watch, but i can't imagine wanting to see an episode twice (beyond seeing if the internal logic holds up).

I rewatch to admire the cinematography and also to look really hard at the naked hosts

i did watch the last episode again and enjoyed it because I watched to make more sense of the time shifts; and when you watch and pay attention to those things, it actually does seem to hold up

yeah I feel rewatching would be helpful and worthwhile in piecing together clues and timelines but there isn't a single scene compelling enough in and of itself to revisit

(kinda like the flip of Orphan Black, which packed so many plot points and character beats into every episode - at the expense of the overarching plot's sense, but it always kept you in the moment in a way Westworld fails to)

(also telling that Orphan Black got an equally hardcore, if smaller, cult fanbase, but speculation about twists etc is largely at normal levels)

It is nice, after years of seeing the internet's theories about Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones turn to dust, that finally we have a prestige show whose big reveals were predicted by the second episode.

Seems like an odd thing to accept there is a universe where this giant behemoth of an adult disneyworld exists and we're to assume the corresponding wiki entry has no info or images of Arnold in it. The show seems to have prioritized the excitement of having a REVEAL over the logic of such a reveal not making any sense in its own universe, really.

Unless... you think Walt had a now forgotten business partner who looked a whole lot like Mickey in the beginning?

― Evan, Monday, November 28, 2016 12:24 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Reiterating this as to me it is probably the biggest issue that is the hardest to explain away in my opinion.

http://a2.files.biography.com/image/upload/c_fit,cs_srgb,dpr_1.0,q_80,w_620/MTI2MDUwMjQ3NzMzNDYzMDUw.jpg

this doesn't really look like anything

maybe the existence of Arnold isn't public knowledge in this world?

That doesn't seem likely in a futuristic world. Personally I feel like, though fictional here, a more advanced society would proportionately have that much more access to information.

You would imagine super popular future theme parks of all places would have documentaries and detailed histories of their beginnings and those involved- definitely more info about the founders.

Most importantly, the people highest up in the same company would be MOST likely to know some basic company history, so one of them might stumble on a realization that their own Bernard looks very much like this Arnold guy eventually. In this case it just seems the suspension of disbelief is a bit on overdrive to say things like "Ford perfectly erased any history of Arnold" from both the public and the employees there, to the point where he can confidently make an Arnold replica disguised as a different actual human and have it go unnoticed. Arnold's involvement was only 35 years prior, after all.

This is a future where people can't smuggle some fucking code out of their own robot theme park

Walt Disney was a major worldwide celebrity long before he built Disneyland. Off the top of your head, what's the name of the person who started Six Flags?

In this case it just seems the suspension of disbelief is a bit on overdrive to say things like "Ford perfectly erased any history of Arnold" from both the public and the employees there, to the point where he can confidently make an Arnold replica disguised as a different actual human and have it go unnoticed.

But everyone who worked there was killed by Dolores. The new people are probably all robots.

It was Mr. Flag and his five brothers, duh

The new people are probably all robots.

New ZOMGtwist: if he isn't a robot already, Ford is busily robotifying himself to live forever, leapfrogging from body to body "Being John Malkovich" style.

"The new people are probably all robots."

I was wondering; was Bernard's memory of theresa freezing up on the bed a glitcy false robot memory, or was she a robot also?

Walt Disney was a major worldwide celebrity long before he built Disneyland. Off the top of your head, what's the name of the person who started Six Flags?

― wk, Tuesday, November 29, 2016 3:05 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Not knowing something off the top of my particular head doesn't prove much. What about the people who do know? OK it was Angus G. Wynne. This kind of info is easily to google.

OK say google or internet style archives of info are not part of this show's universe somehow...

Wouldn't Ford worry that any of the employees, especially the higher ups, might look into this basic info about the history of their own company? The founders are a big part of that story.

I mean my whole point here is that you have to work very hard to justify why this can make sense in the show's universe, hard enough that it's more likely to be a big oversight in the writing. Clearly the focus was on creating a scenario that is a big exciting story reveal for the sake of the audience at the expense of not fitting cleanly in to the story otherwise.

The hosts are the key part of the park, but it's not even implied Ford and Arnold created them on their own -- neither one is implied to be an expert in animatronics, let alone whatever advanced biological machines they now have in the wild, unless I missed that piece of the story. They're artificial intelligence programmers, and not the only ones who have worked in that realm, even if they were originators of a lot of the concepts and deeper code still in use.

The idea of individuals who were key in creating projects later being erased from the official story is definitely not unique to Westworld. It's like any large, semi-faceless corporate entity -- there are public facing people, and some individuals might get recognition in their own industries or promoted and recognized internally via promotion or incentives, but even then there's no guarantee that the guy who is on the patents for host cognition was necessarily the one who did all the lab work. Especially if they were filed after he was killed by his own work and the company covered it up.

what if there was a secret co-founder of Disney that's ungoogleable because he was so super secret

think about it

after all, the first appearance of Mickey Mouse was in a demo reel that had a single animator. that animator was not Walt Disney

now, imagine the actual animator got hit by a car after finishing all that work and Walt had no reason to ever acknowledge he existed

I'd rather imagine he got killed by Mickey after he achieved sentience but yeah, I'll go along with it

The idea of individuals who were key in creating projects later being erased from the official story is definitely not unique to Westworld. It's like any large, semi-faceless corporate entity -- there are public facing people, and some individuals might get recognition in their own industries or promoted and recognized internally via promotion or incentives, but even then there's no guarantee that the guy who is on the patents for host cognition was necessarily the one who did all the lab work. Especially if they were filed after he was killed by his own work and the company covered it up.

― mh 😏, Tuesday, November 29, 2016 5:06 PM (twenty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Still, too many assumptions to make about how perfectly Ford erased someone he called his "partner". He isn't worried there isn't one employee left celebrating 35+ years on the job, bumping into Bernard in the elevator and freaking out? There's all sorts of other likely potential issues he would have to have prepared for. This particular semi-faceless company would be also hiding images and record of the former "partner" from themselves/those that run it currently. AKA it's up to Ford completely to have thought of everything. Imagine how much less story implausible justifying we would have to do if Bernard simply was a different looking person than Arnold. Therefore, again, works as a fun character twist for the audience but doesn't fit so nicely into the story otherwise.

someone from the board coming to visit was seen as pretty unexpected

idk I don't have to justify it, ppl who have run into Bernard don't know what Arnold looked like, end of line

it's not like someone has sat there reminiscing about chilling w/Arnold, saw Bernard walk past, and didn't bat an eye

someone from the board coming to visit was seen as pretty unexpected

idk I don't have to justify it, ppl who have run into Bernard don't know what Arnold looked like, end of line

― mh 😏, Tuesday, November 29, 2016 5:57 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Exactly, so if he can't prepare for everything then building an Arnold replica is quite risky.

Ultimately- whatever, it bothers me uniquely because it can't be explained away as easily as anything else that doesn't quite make sense. That's all.

if someone did figure it out he'd prob just be like oh yeah that's my robot lol

Exactly, so if he can't prepare for everything then building an Arnold replica is quite risky.

he also appears to be totally insane so maybe he just thought "ah, fuck it"

I mean he's more in the calculated evil genius mold at the moment which is sort of opposite, but I'll go with that.

so bernard is a robot & also arnold huh, looks like everybody in the entire world guessed right. wish they'd just had one unbelievably long slow boring reveal for both those pieces of information instead of two. How many of these are left? The fun is draining out so fast for me.

I did like post-massacre psychobilly doing his most mcpoyley acting yet.

he really should have said he was thirsty from killing all those robots and could use a big old glass of milk

lmao

since there's only one ep left I guess they're going to empty their bag of reveals in that one : it will be christmas !
(and they'll try to figure out how to make sense of it all in the next season...) like they did in the middle of s1...

Production was temporarily halted for a couple of months in early 2016 so that showrunners Nolan and Joy could complete the scripts for the last four episodes of the first season

what is even left to reveal other than that William = MiB

oh I'm sure they will find plenty of things to surprise us...

what's up with the MAZE ! the new story/world built by Ford in the part under construction of the park ! Maeve becomes a member of the board ! Dolores' former father is Wyatt ! Logan fucks Elsie's corpse and brings her back to life ! Dolores and Teddy are reunited and kill everybody they meet (which definitely pushes William to the dark side and he steals Logan's black clothes) ! the security guy kidnapped by the indians becomes one of them with the name little big man ! the host dog killed by the kid following Bernard/Arnold's order contained all the big data ! the asian tech guy brings Theresa back to life after his successful attempt with the bird ! Charlotte is killed in the british story guy's story/plot against Ford !

and of course, many more massacres !

Elsie is probably still alive. No onscreen death typically says as much in these shows.