Dad-Pop? : Where do you stand on Crowded House?

The applause was always on my CD version. It's the Maori choir and percussion troupe clapping.

Woodface deserves a remaster, IMO. Last time I listened to it, I felt it didn't sound as great these days as I could be. Froom's production on it remains excellent, and the songwriting is still as potent as ever. I always listen to it starting from track 2 these days, though!

I heard on Facebook that the download code that comes with the Vinyl includes some bonus tracks.

Oh awesome - relieved to hear that.

The applause was always on my CD version. It's the Maori choir and percussion troupe clapping.

Ha! Crazy. Maybe it was edited off on the UK version for some reason.

The shows I saw them do around Together Alone were some of the best I've seen. The chemistry Paul Hester brought was just wonderful.

Weirdly, I had the UK CD, because it came out a month later in the US. So who knows.

I saw the final tour with Hester (Sheryl Crow opened, cigarette in one hand, beer in the other) and it was good but he was a bit down. For some reason I had a backstage pass. Talked to Nick a bit, iirc. Really nice.

Thanks to my girlfriend Kate -- an absolute CH/Neil obsessive who saw the band numerous times back in the 90s, to the point where the bandmembers and crew knew her as part of a coterie of similarly dedicated souls -- I've been listening to all the remasters here these past couple of days. I never really followed them or any of the overall Finn brothers arc to a great degree -- like a lot of people here in the US, I knew the big hits on the first album, was aware they continued on for a while having greater success elsewhere, and generally knew they made nice enough music. I think I would have enjoyed their work back then just as much as I am now, really, so it's not a great revelation so much as it's a 'yeah, this works, very lovely indeed.' Kate's been mentioning a wide variety of stories and memories in the context with a lot of songs and especially the bonus cuts -- she really liked Paul Hester a heck of a lot as well, and still misses him very much. Since I'm coming into it all pretty cold otherwise I'll be interesting to see what I make of the two reunion albums -- Kate's not really taken by those but she did enjoy the tours for them, despite the one inevitable change in the lineup.

I've loved them since I was a wee Veg. Paul was always my favorite (also he showed his bum a lot which helps) - cried for a whole day when he passed.

I relistened to their best-of after I watched the 20-year anniversary concert the other week; it's crazy how many gorgeous songs they have. Neil turns a lovely phrase, doesn't he?.

I love Woodface still maybe the most for nostalgia & there's no sound better for my heart than Tim & Neil in harmony

I can appreciate a good Finn as much as anyone but I think what makes them boring and dad rock is their lack of mystery, danger, and unpredictability

I don't really listen to Crowded House for "mystery" and "danger", though.

Yeah, that seems...a strange judgment. If anything what I've been appreciating about this deep dive is how they master an approach that is straightforward enough and then heavily finesse it to introduce unexpected twists and turns. It's not 'mysterious' but it's elegantly skillful.

Funny -- I posted my favorite Neil Finn songs the other day.

@MrSotosyn, I think on your list you said you wouldn't include I Got You, but then you did?

I changed my mind but didn't edit the post.

if earnest, sincere & heartfelt = "boring" then all aboard the boring train to dadtown

plenty of mystery and danger on Together Alone, to my ears, but that's not really why I love Crowded House, or that album most of all theirs.

Just put Woodface on and skipped straight to... 'Whispers and Moans'! I get this song in my head quite a lot whenever I think of this LP... this and 'Tall Trees', for some reason. What's with the shouting part at the end, though!?

"She Goes On"!

Man, 'Chocolate Cake' surely must rank as one of the worst things they ever did. Still, even now, I can't believe that of all the songs on Woodface, they somehow decides that 'Chocolate Cake' should be the fucking lead single. I heard that 'It's Only Natural' was originally slated as the lead single but they changed their minds (or lost their minds, IMO) ... and to put it as the opening track, too!

*decided

"Chocolate Cake" must surely reek.

I never heard "Chocolate Cake" on college radio even though it climbed to #2 on the modern rock chart. I did hear "It's Only Natural" a lot that early fall though.

'Weather With You' was probably the biggest hit off the record here... I don't recall seeing the video to 'Chocolate Cake' until well after it was released. I don't think I ever heard it on the radio.

It couldn't have done 'em much favours in the US, either ("and the excess of fat on your Anerican bones/will cushion the impact as you sink like a stone" ... ouch!)

I'm guessing that Tim was mostly the driving force behind 'Chocolate Cake' ... it doesn't feel like a Neil song to me at all.

Saw Chocolate Cake on the Chart Show when it was released, memorable song but no hit. Never understood all the hate it gets

Love "Chocolate Cake." Could have done with more of that darkness & spikiness resulting from Tim's sojourn in the band. (Given how that silly vs sardonic vibe fit Hessie's personality, it would have been interesting if a Tim / Paul cowriting element had sprung up, should Tim have been able to stay: the two were roommates during their overlap in Split Enz, I just remembered while typing this sentence.)

I like/love all Crowded House and Finn solo to varying degrees, but the other day I was reminded of Christgau's massive antipathy toward the group and I was trying to figure out why. The conclusion I came to is that Neil Finn is a great melody guy, good with hooks and gorgeous stuff, but maaaaaaybe not the best songwriter, in the total package sense. Hmm, that's harsher than I mean, since I love his songs. Maybe it's that he's not a particularly memorable lyricist, there's no wit or smarts or much more beyond the most general of things going on with his words. Which is not a problem, really - again, I like/love all Crowded House and Finn solo to varying degrees - but it helped me understand how someone might not like them so much, or how one might approach them as a cult act rather than a proper pop act. Back to Christgau, he mentions pretension, iirc, but that's actually something I think Neil Finn lacks, and, ironically, what maybe makes him fall short for some (but not me).

Anyway, in some ways the first 7 Worlds Collide live album is a great entree. It's a sign of his respect from fellow musicians that he could get Johnny Marr, a chunk of Radiohead, and Eddie Vedder, among others, as his support band. Lately I like his first two solo albums best. For CH, for some reason I've always gravitated toward Temple of Low Men.

One of my faves of his:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN8lJmZpZYA

Another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVoNbOJpIYU

I like/love all Crowded House and Finn solo to varying degrees, but the other day I was reminded of Christgau's massive antipathy toward the group and I was trying to figure out why. The conclusion I came to is that Neil Finn is a great melody guy, good with hooks and gorgeous stuff, but maaaaaaybe not the best songwriter, in the total package sense. Hmm, that's harsher than I mean, since I love his songs. Maybe it's that he's not a particularly memorable lyricist, there's no wit or smarts or much more beyond the most general of things going on with his words. Which is not a problem, really - again, I like/love all Crowded House and Finn solo to varying degrees - but it helped me understand how someone might not like them so much, or how one might approach them as a cult act rather than a proper pop act. Back to Christgau, he mentions pretension, iirc, but that's actually something I think Neil Finn lacks, and, ironically, what maybe makes him fall short for some (but not me).

idk "Can't Carry On," "Don't Dream It's Over," lots of stuff on Woodface -- good words. Christgau's rancor is overwrought.

Maybe it's that he's not a particularly memorable lyricist, there's no wit or smarts or much more beyond the most general of things going on with his words.

Distant Sun is a great lyric. A lot of the stuff on Together Alone is really memorable and thoughtful to me. Christgau dislike a lot of great stuff.

It's weird, I think a lot of his lyrics work, and I like a lot of them, but I'm not sure how many of them are more than just kind of vague place holders. Honestly, when it comes to Neil Finn I have trouble balancing my own fandom with anything close to objectivity. As far as I'm concerned all his lyrics are memorable, because I remember them.

But, like, take Neil Finn buddy and frequent tourmate Paul Kelly. I think Paul Kelly is a brilliant lyricist, but a lot more meat and potatoes when it comes to melodies and songs.

I should stress that I find the vague elusiveness of many of Finn's lyrics appealing myself. They don't get in the way, and in a general sense help him convey his particularly brilliant brand of melancholy, especially in songs like "Don't Dream It's Over," or "Four Seasons in One Day," or "Distant Sun," that sort of thing. But when I think back to his several albums with Split Enz, several albums with Crowded House, several solo albums and side projects, dozens of dozens of great songs, there are only a few lines that ever jump out at me. Even then, "My possessions are causing me suspicion but there's no proof" is a great but meaningless line, imo. Of all his stuff the opening couplet of deep cut "In The Lowlands" always stands out: "Oh hell, trouble is coming/Out here in panic and alarm." That's a great start, very evocative, but I'm not sure it ever pays off. Not that it needs to! But if the (to me) prima facia pleasures of his voice and melodies don't do it for you, I don't think there's much else to convince the unconvinced. Which iirc was Christgau's argument: hooks are easy. Not coincidentally, I've heard Finn say the same thing, that the tunes and melodies come easy, but that he struggles with the words.

Most lyrics by anybody are vague place holders!

Of all his stuff the opening couplet of deep cut "In The Lowlands" always stands out: "Oh hell, trouble is coming/Out here in panic and alarm."

I'm glad you like this one too; I find myself humming it every few months. But it wouldn't stand out without his singing or the arrangement.

I've always really loved Distant Sun because of the way he seems to balance mulling over the challenge of keeping a long-term relationship strong and resonant with this chorus that evokes the idea of romantic love as larger-than-life rapture or magic - to go from "Tell me all the things you would change / I don't pretend to know what you want... No fire where I lit my spark / I am not afraid of the dark" to "Seven worlds will collide / whenever I am by your side / And dust from a distant sun / Will shower over everyone" is just brilliant to me, and very affecting.

I am soppy as all get-out though, so.

Nobody's mentioned "Fall At Your Feet" -- this is definitely their POO moment. The harmonies on the chorus are just sublime. It's the type of thing that catches the attention of people who are only passively listening to the song.

Mind you, this is coming from an admitted fan of dull dad-pop. And even I lost a lot of respect for the band after I recently watched the video for "Something So Strong".

I love when the harmonies go faaaalllll and Froom (or Tim Finn?) play that simple keyboard part.

And even I lost a lot of respect for the band after I recently watched the video for "Something So Strong".

aww they're adorable

Directed by Alex Proyas, said video.

I said in the Paul Hester RIP thread a decade ago that this video is one of the few convincing period depictions of guys in videos who look like they genuinely love each other.

Christgau's argument: hooks are easy.

I'd like to thank hit songwriter and the Dean Ween of music critics - Robert Christgau - for this observation.

From "Crowded House: Something So Strong", By Chris Bourke:

'Something So Strong' was also directed by an Australian, Evan English, but the band have mixed feelings about the excruciatingly wholesome clip. 'It ended up looking like a commercial for margarine,' says Nick...
The intention of English, a left-winger, was to 'tap into the soft, white underbelly of middle America,' says Neil... 'I think it looked a bit much like a toothpaste commercial myself.'

Ah, thanks for that. Proyas directed at least one early video IIRC.

Hester's backflip is a bit much. Remind see of that Greil Marcus line about Terence Trent D'Arby's deeply rehearsed laugh in "Wishing Well."

Nobody's mentioned "Fall At Your Feet" -- this is definitely their POO moment. The harmonies on the chorus are just sublime. It's the type of thing that catches the attention of people who are only passively listening to the song.

Yeah, the harmonies on that song are sublime, but the strange thing about that song is the middle eight, where if you listen closely to the backing vocal, you realise it's shouting along with the lead vocal but mixed so it sits behind the lead.

Yeah, Fall At Your Feet is another winner. Finn is just such a great singer. His voice suits his material perfectly.

A keeper from the comeback record:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vto40GYUNY8

Excellent Johnny Marr co-write off the comeback:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Oi9w7DgDiY

Just for fun - funn - Finn and Marr doing "There is a Light:"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNYL1gitgm8

jesus why does Marr insist on cutting his hair in the least flattering manner

See: this thread: T/S: Aging Mod Dudes vs Aging Punk Dudes

Neil Finn buddy and frequent tourmate Paul Kelly.

"frequent" if you mean "they played together on all 21 dates of a month-long collaborative tour, once"

Dude, when Crowded House toured America behind Woodface I'm pretty sure Paul Kelly opened up on every date. They've been sympatico and in sync for a long time.