'Children of Men', the new Alfonso Cuaron sci-fi flick

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No, see, I definitely liked that, with the mid-wife, she just isn't there anymore. And yes, they should've left Jasper while he's preparing the Quietus and never came back to him--if even that much.

― AllyzayEisenschefterBDawkinsFlyingSquirrelRomoCrying.jpg (allyzay), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Showing Caine's death seemed worthwhile to me, but yeah, definitely strange, especially since the POV necessitated such weird action on Owen's part: "we have no time to lose but I will stop right up here in clear sight to watch this -- don't worry, we can hear every word they're saying, but no way will they hear this car when it starts (I guess cause it's the future and cars are less noisy)."

(For some reason the lingering detail that helps make it "worthwhile" to me is that he takes care of the very practical and humane detail of dosing the dog.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:48 (seventeen years ago) link

I didn't mind Caine's death scene (i.e. the fact that they showed it), and the way it was shot from Owen's far-away perspective was pretty cool, but it did bother me that Owen's character stuck around to watch. Dude, he's giving up his life to buy you time and you wait until the last possible minute to bolt!

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:48 (seventeen years ago) link

But the movie's all about sentimentality (pathos) - why remove it from that one specific scene?

All the little heartbreaking moments are the core of the film - if you dull (further) the ending and take away Caine's death and so on, you're left with a cold, cold film. The warmth is what makes it all work.

There were only two out of place moments, IMO - the midwife speech and Theo's reaction to Moore's death (when he breaks down in the forest, it was over the top)

― milo z (mlp), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:48 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost!

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:48 (seventeen years ago) link

btw Quietus is a perfect brandname for a suicide drug. They must've study-grouped it.

If Peter Boyle got remembered for that shitcom, I really don't see Caine obits leading with Alfie or Hannah and Her Sisters, esp if he does 2-3 more pretentious Batman movies.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Caine didn't tell Theo he was going to commit suicide - he told Theo he'd talk his way out. Theo stops to see what's up, hears that wifey and dog are dead then sees his last great hope in the world get shot.

― milo z (mlp), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:49 (seventeen years ago) link

I think it was Morbs who said a few days ago that Owen's crying scene was his Bogie gin joint scene.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Because I don't need to be bludgeoned over the head to understand the sentimentality or pathos in the scene?

xpost You would be surprised, Alfred isn't exactly an unfortunate role on par with, say, Obi-Wan Kenobi...

― AllyzayEisenschefterBDawkinsFlyingSquirrelRomoCrying.jpg (allyzay), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Because I don't need to be bludgeoned over the head to understand the sentimentality or pathos in the scene?

OK I apologize for the tone of this, that's coming off a lot more pretentious than it's meant to be. It just didn't ring right to me at all.

― AllyzayEisenschefterBDawkinsFlyingSquirrelRomoCrying.jpg (allyzay), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:51 (seventeen years ago) link

xp - Caine will be remembered for being Michael Caine, not for any specific character.

― milo z (mlp), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:51 (seventeen years ago) link

How soon we forget DIRTY ROTTEN SCOUNDRELS and JAWS IV!

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Jasper does the "pull my finger" thing so they SHOOT HIS FUCKING FINGER OFF, that's not sentimental!

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:52 (seventeen years ago) link

i thought him breaking down in the forest was perfect

― and what (ooo), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:52 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost -- P.S. surely the overriding reason for showing the death is that without it we'd assume Jasper took the Quietus, too -- omitting it entirely would leave us with a totally different sense of the guy's end. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the book let Theo leave and then switched POV for Jasper's death? Though as much as I appreciate the film being strict about POV, it's not that strict that it couldn't send Theo packing and then catch Jasper's death: it shows Jasper getting the Quietus, which just as much outside Theo's POV.

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:53 (seventeen years ago) link

up to that point the movie was having the problem that most action/thriller flicks do where people treat stuff like the sudden death of their ex-lover/mother-of-his-child with steely professionalism

― and what (ooo), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:53 (seventeen years ago) link

yeha I think milo watched this movie completely differently than I did, ethan, you and I are agreeing on too much stuff now

― TOMB07 (TOMBOT), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Theo had to see Caine's death because Jasper was the only real tie he had left with the world. There was nothing left for him at the end of it all but he had regained the sense of hope he had lost etc...

The jokey "pull my finger" followed by the "fuck you" and what seemed to be throwing the finger followed by the shot followed by the return of the "pull my finger" was great.

― The Ultimate Conclusion (lokar), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:55 (seventeen years ago) link

The midwife speech is the only bit that I would eliminate. Keep Caine's death and keep Theo's reaction. It wasn't over the top at all. I thought it was effective and believeable because of how rushed it was.

― Fleischhutliebe! like a warm, furry meatloaf (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:55 (seventeen years ago) link

The breakdown may well have been the right choice, it's just such a huge departure from the tone before and after it sticks out.

― milo z (mlp), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:55 (seventeen years ago) link

so are basically down to saying this is a pretty decent, well made action movie then? im confused....

― ryan (ryan), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:56 (seventeen years ago) link

wtf is with you Dave, Caine's great in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels!
His best pure comedy role I can recall.

and as much as Guinness badmouthed Kenobi, Star Wars sure as hell is a better vehicle for phoning it in than Batman Begins, which is good only for Baleporn.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:56 (seventeen years ago) link

He didn't need to see the guy die, it's blatantly obvious that come hell or high water the dude is going to die.

xpost you say "Baleporn" as if it's an insult.

― AllyzayEisenschefterBDawkinsFlyingSquirrelRomoCrying.jpg (allyzay), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:57 (seventeen years ago) link

have a dude kill your ex-girlfriend in front of you and see if you dont have a 'departure from the tone before'

― and what (ooo), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:57 (seventeen years ago) link

By unfortunate role though, I meant "Extremely memorable, children and adults alike are going to come up to you in the street and refer to you as the character, the average person will be so used to thinking of you as this character that you basically cease to exist" etc, not so much the quality of either film. Poor Alec Guinness.

― AllyzayEisenschefterBDawkinsFlyingSquirrelRomoCrying.jpg (allyzay), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:58 (seventeen years ago) link

Caine would probably prefer be spoken to as Alfred than, say, Carter.

― milo z (mlp), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:59 (seventeen years ago) link

if we're gonna quibble (and this is definitely quibbling at this point), I have more beef with killing her right after the most whimsical moment than showing the guy being fucked up by it after.

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 18 January 2007 20:59 (seventeen years ago) link

In his memoirs Guinness got so annoyed about the Star Wars phenom that he would scare little children away when they came to get his autograph. Or maybe it was a Force squeeze.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I would be flattered if Michael Caine were cast to play me.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:00 (seventeen years ago) link

The midwife speech is only faulty becuase it's too universal and not personal enough. "It was then the despair began" is a bit obvious, but the "we looked forward in the diary and there were no bookings" bit was good.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:02 (seventeen years ago) link

anthony you cant complain about typical hollywood bullshit one minute & something as striking & unexpected as moores death the enxt!!

― and what (ooo), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:03 (seventeen years ago) link

I love Batman Begins. *sadface*

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:03 (seventeen years ago) link

BB=awesome. ditto and what on moores death

― Fleischhutliebe! like a warm, furry meatloaf (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:05 (seventeen years ago) link

actually showing joie de vivre immediately before killing the happy character is pretty typical hollywood bullshit. my point re: concealment - he didn't telegraph it a la Sam "I am going to Montana" Neill in Hunt For Red October

x-post to Ethan

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:06 (seventeen years ago) link

every single death in this movie was telegraphed so bad it was out of CONTROL, son

― TOMB07 (TOMBOT), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:09 (seventeen years ago) link

well at least she didn't get to yell "GET MENDOZA!" before she died.

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:10 (seventeen years ago) link

the only ones I was not basically waiting thinking "get it over with already jesus" were theo himself and I guess the helpful gypsy with the kalashnikov

― TOMB07 (TOMBOT), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Of course every death is telegraphed - the film's about no one being born anymore!

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Killing Julianne Moore off in the first act was SO not 'typical Hollywood bullshit,' wtf??

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:12 (seventeen years ago) link

yes nick that was a joke I was prepared to make, glad to see I don't have to do it anymore

― TOMB07 (TOMBOT), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:12 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm on my third bottle.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:14 (seventeen years ago) link

Killing Julianne Moore off in the first act was SO not 'typical Hollywood bullshit,' wtf??

Admittedly in true hollywood bullshit she would have died thirty minutes later and they would have tearfully passed the ball back and forth one more time before she died.

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:14 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah for real, unless yall are psychic or some shit i did not see that coming AT ALL - after caine (who is old & still gets to last about an hour longer) shes the most famous person in the movie!!!!!

― and what (ooo), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:14 (seventeen years ago) link

janet_leigh.jpg

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, she got shot in the throat, which is nasty and brutal and not Hollywood.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:16 (seventeen years ago) link

not to mention the cutesy joie de vivre shit seemed a lot more like it was setting up future romance with her & reluctant clive, not standard redshirt 'i look forward to working with you, captain'/'HE STOOD HIS GROUND... WHILE THE TRAINEES RAN!!!!' stuff

― and what (ooo), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:16 (seventeen years ago) link

yes jaymc the plot structure of psycho best represents typical hollywood bullshit

― and what (ooo), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:17 (seventeen years ago) link

Another plus for COM: now Julianne Moore doesn't get remembered solely for Nine Months.

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:17 (seventeen years ago) link

The Lost World!

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh, god, was she in that? It's bad enough Laura Dern decided Jurassic Park was the film for her.

― AllyzayEisenschefterBDawkinsFlyingSquirrelRomoCrying.jpg (allyzay), Thursday, 18 January 2007 21:19 (seventeen years ago) link

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