Star Trek: Classic or Dud?

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I really like "The Next Phase"! It's where Ro and Geordi "die" in a transporter accident, but it reveals the mystery without technobabble overload, and loads of funny moments -- Ro being chased by the similarly phased Romulan through random crew quarters, Ro and Geordi going to their own wake, Ro being intrigued at what Riker might have to say about her, and then her reaction when she's not going to hear it. And I guess this is one of the better Ro episodes!

Pean-Juc Leeecard (Leee), Monday, 31 October 2016 00:22 (seven years ago) link

I think that I'm more into the more fun sci-fi episodes more than the ones That Make You Think or get tangled in some ethical dilemma or other sacred TNG cows -- I enjoyed it more than "The Inner Light" and "Yesterday's Enterprise" by a far margin!

Pean-Juc Leeecard (Leee), Monday, 31 October 2016 00:24 (seven years ago) link

IIRC they would've wanted to address that plot thread earlier, but the actor wasn't available until the 6th season.

I think it wasn't that the actor was unavailable, it's that they had trouble licensing the Moriarty character from the Doyle estate.

Sharia Laws and Lambchop (The Yellow Kid), Monday, 31 October 2016 00:29 (seven years ago) link

Holmes isn't public domain by now?!

Nhex, Monday, 31 October 2016 01:29 (seven years ago) link

has to be now because there are a hundred different publications of that stuff and it's free on amazon kindle.

akm, Monday, 31 October 2016 01:35 (seven years ago) link

I believe the early Sherlock stories were PD when the season 2 episode was made, but the story with the Moriarty character wasn't. it's all PD now.

Einstein, Kazanga, Sitar (abanana), Monday, 31 October 2016 01:44 (seven years ago) link

ah gotcha

Nhex, Monday, 31 October 2016 01:48 (seven years ago) link

i've finished all of TNG. what should i look at next? i've seen all of TOS and all the movies. i heard the 70s animated series is actually pretty good. or Deep Space Nine?

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 13 November 2016 23:26 (seven years ago) link

into the 5th season of voyager now, lots of duds but some really good eps occasionally and janeway is always great

clouds, Sunday, 13 November 2016 23:27 (seven years ago) link

xp DS9 is the next best for sure. much like TNG it takes a couple seasons to really find its footing but it certainly rewards watching the whole thing more than any other trek as it has better characters and a bigger-picture plot to get invested in

ciderpress, Sunday, 13 November 2016 23:39 (seven years ago) link

DS9!!!!

Nhex, Monday, 14 November 2016 00:17 (seven years ago) link

^^^

schwantz, Monday, 14 November 2016 04:20 (seven years ago) link

Yeah, when it comes to overall quality, DS9 is better than TNG. Especially if you like longer story arcs, because there's one or two big stories that dominate the latter half of the series, and they're mostly quite gripping and well-written.

Be warned, though, that the first season is almost as spotty as TNG's... It gets better right at the beginning of season 2, but if you feel like you don't want to waddle through all of the mediocrity of the first season, these are the essential episodes to watch:

Emissary
Past Prologue
Captive Pursuit
Dax
The Nagus
Vortex
Battle Lines
Progress
The Forsaken
Duet
In the Hands of Prophets

Past Prologue, Captive Pursuit, Progress, and Duet are all genuinely great episodes, especially the latter two. The others I included because they either move the larger arcs forward, or include important character development, though they all also have good story moments besides that.

If you want to watch the most weirdest episode of the entire series, and one that's often rated among the worst of Trek, you can add "Move Along Home" to the list. Personally I don't think it's that bad, but it definitely is... something different.

Tuomas, Monday, 14 November 2016 07:41 (seven years ago) link

Regarding DS9, this is what you're looking for: https://medium.com/maxistentialism-blog/star-trek-deep-space-nine-in-82-5-hours-10acde591fd2

Millsner, Monday, 14 November 2016 07:59 (seven years ago) link

Even if you decide the whole thing rather than following his recommendations, his extended preamble absolutely nails the reasons the series is so great.

Millsner, Monday, 14 November 2016 08:00 (seven years ago) link

*to watch

Millsner, Monday, 14 November 2016 08:01 (seven years ago) link

Just discovered this is on Netflix uk so I'm about to embark on the great journey.

quis gropes ipsos gropiuses? (ledge), Monday, 14 November 2016 09:53 (seven years ago) link

Yeah, it appears it was recently added to non-US versions Netflix, I've been rewatching the first seasons episodes in sync with my gf in Costa Rica-

Tuomas, Monday, 14 November 2016 11:11 (seven years ago) link

In fact, I think DS9 deserves a dedicated (re)watch thread, so I started one:

Deep Space Nine: a thread for (re)watching this awesome series

Tuomas, Monday, 14 November 2016 11:20 (seven years ago) link

Move Along is terrible!

Jeff, Monday, 14 November 2016 11:45 (seven years ago) link

Voyager is absolutely carried by its characters, I have to say I probably have the most overall affection for its cast of any of the ST crews. It's what carries me through the inevitable lulls in its plotting.

his eye is on despair-o (Jon not Jon), Monday, 14 November 2016 14:45 (seven years ago) link

i feel the opposite about Voyager - Seven, the Doctor, Tuvok, and Janeway are good characters but the rest of the cast are pretty boring (Paris, Chakotay, Harry, Kes) or aren't really given enough of a chance to distinguish themselves (the episode where Neelix dies and is brought back to life by Seven and has a crisis of faith is one of my favorites but it's the only time they really let the character do something meaningful. Torres gets a few good episodes but i'd still put her in this boat too). the Voyager episodes that work best for me are the high concept TNG-style ones where the characters don't matter as much.

ciderpress, Monday, 14 November 2016 15:01 (seven years ago) link

Move Along is terrible!

I liked it!

Pean-Juc Leeecard (Leee), Monday, 14 November 2016 15:17 (seven years ago) link

Torres gets a few good episodes but i'd still put her in this boat too

Like that Klingon Barge of the Dead boat?

Pean-Juc Leeecard (Leee), Monday, 14 November 2016 15:17 (seven years ago) link

Move Along Home is silly but it has some interesting visual stuff in it which is more than you can say for a lot of the other dud episodes

ciderpress, Monday, 14 November 2016 16:06 (seven years ago) link

http://i.imgur.com/lFnXzML.jpg

ciderpress, Monday, 14 November 2016 16:06 (seven years ago) link

DS9 and Voyager probably have the most character development out of the series. Voyager out of necessity -- wow it would have been a hell of a slog if they had that premise and everyone remained static.

I'd kind of forgotten how much development there was on DS9. It wasn't just the writers getting into a groove after a few season, although that happened. Rewatching the early part of the series and seeing Kira as still unable to trust Sisko (she calls his boss to complain!) and an away team trapped in one of Odo's memories as he comes to terms with the fact he executed innocent people during the Cardassian era of the station.

mh 😏, Monday, 14 November 2016 16:20 (seven years ago) link

I tried to start on DS9 but the premiere was so bad (often in a v odd way - wtf is up w the Captain's line readings) I couldn't go beyond it

ΞŸα½–Ο„ΞΉΟ‚, Monday, 14 November 2016 16:22 (seven years ago) link

sisko line readings are legendarily weird

the DS9 premiere is pretty good so if you weren't into it then i doubt much else is gonna change yr mind

ciderpress, Monday, 14 November 2016 16:26 (seven years ago) link

it was mostly Sisko's line-readings, the clumsy flashback, and the ferengi that put me off (I've never like the ferengi as characters)

ΞŸα½–Ο„ΞΉΟ‚, Monday, 14 November 2016 16:44 (seven years ago) link

I'm not that into the ferengi culture episodes, but DS9 has a core ferengi family that nearly redeems the weird stereotypes they represent in some of the other series

mh 😏, Monday, 14 November 2016 16:45 (seven years ago) link

DS9 pretty much rescues the Ferengi from the cartoon villain niche TNG had placed them, they become much more interesting and less clichΓ©d during the series' run. Nog's character arc especially is one of the best things about DS9, the scene where he confronts Sisko's implicit racism towards him is so powerful, and a very effective criticism against sci-fi writers' tendency to give each alien species just one dominant attribute (all Klingons are proud warriors, all Ferengi are shameless capitalists, etc). That scene madene cry, something I never could've imagined based on how TNG handled the Ferengi.

Tuomas, Monday, 14 November 2016 16:55 (seven years ago) link

Xmessage

Tuomas, Monday, 14 November 2016 16:55 (seven years ago) link

"that scene made me cry"

Tuomas, Monday, 14 November 2016 16:57 (seven years ago) link

DS9, the show that gave you an episode where a Ferengi deals with his post-traumatic stress from combat in the holodeck and it ends up being one of the show's best.

mh 😏, Monday, 14 November 2016 17:03 (seven years ago) link

Don't forget that the one who helps him deal with PTSD is a hologram 1950s crooner! And yeah, it's a great episode.

Tuomas, Monday, 14 November 2016 17:09 (seven years ago) link

wtf is up w the Captain's line readings

He's the inheritor of Shatner's theatricality!

Pean-Juc Leeecard (Leee), Monday, 14 November 2016 17:54 (seven years ago) link

It bugged me at first too, but if you listen to him in that way, he's a lot of fun. He's more conventionally powerful later on in the series, though.

Pean-Juc Leeecard (Leee), Monday, 14 November 2016 17:55 (seven years ago) link

great article linked above on DS9 recap, though it breaks my heart whenever people suggest skipping episodes (though frankly they're skipping a smallish portion in that guide). suffer or die!

ciderpress: totally agreed on your Voyager stance

Nhex, Monday, 14 November 2016 20:34 (seven years ago) link

yeah that DS9 guide linked above is good but at the very least i would add in season 3 two-parter "Past Tense" with its ever-increasingly believable portrayal of a dystopian 2024 San Francisco

ciderpress, Monday, 14 November 2016 20:45 (seven years ago) link

regarding voyager characters, Chakotay is possibly the biggest missed opportunity for a character in all of trek. They developed the Maquis just for voyager, then they did nothing with him.

Einstein, Kazanga, Sitar (abanana), Monday, 14 November 2016 20:49 (seven years ago) link

yeah he was indistinguishable from a normal starfleet officer by the end of the first season

ciderpress, Monday, 14 November 2016 20:52 (seven years ago) link

my wife has been working her way through voyager recently and i've been half-watching along with her, mostly seeing these episodes for the first time

the conclusion i have come to through this process is as follows: harry kim is the most pathetic wet blanket in the history of television

not all those who chunder are sloshed (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 14 November 2016 20:57 (seven years ago) link

also, every time chakotay's native american heritage is invoked it always seems to involve a bunch of embarrassing new age bullshit

not all those who chunder are sloshed (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 14 November 2016 21:00 (seven years ago) link

otm, harry is nearly offensive in that regard

trying to remember how the ds9/voyager rollout went -- how much airtime did voyager even have before the maquis were all killed on ds9?

mh 😏, Monday, 14 November 2016 21:00 (seven years ago) link

the Maquis were introduced in the 2nd season of DS9 and Voyager debuted the following year afaik, long before any of the big shit went down in DS9

ciderpress, Monday, 14 November 2016 21:04 (seven years ago) link

yeah, looks like mid-season five of DS9 was when it all came to a head

mh 😏, Monday, 14 November 2016 21:10 (seven years ago) link

also, every time chakotay's native american heritage is invoked it always seems to involve a bunch of embarrassing new age bullshit

― not all those who chunder are sloshed (bizarro gazzara), Monday, November 14, 2016 4:00 PM (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the flutes! every time.

BTW I did not mean to indicate I like ALL of Voyager's crew/cast. Harry Kim and Tom Paris suck. B'ellana is ok sometimes but mostly dull. Chakotay is missed opportunity, I agree, but I really like his relationship with the captain.

his eye is on despair-o (Jon not Jon), Monday, 14 November 2016 21:23 (seven years ago) link

sooo, the Doctor, Tuvok, Seven of Nine, Janeway and Neelix then?

mh 😏, Monday, 14 November 2016 21:32 (seven years ago) link

doc and tuvok are the mvps to me, mainly because of the actors, both of whom are great

seven of nine is cool most of the time, janeway is written to be infallible too often but mulgrew plays her brilliantly, and neelix is a nuclear-grade irritant who should have been blasted into the frigid vacuum of space in the first episode tbh

not all those who chunder are sloshed (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 14 November 2016 21:39 (seven years ago) link


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