What Does ILM Think of Daniel Lanois?

listened to lanois' new one this morning with this happening outside my bus window, perfect visual accompaniment
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CviVRUbXYAEHwGW.jpg:large

Well...Wrt to Chris Whitley's daughter, given her father I bet she's had some tough times in her life so maybe he's just trying to help

i feel like wrecking ball is a big touchstone for a lot of modern country production

makes sense to me

https://www.facebook.com/vsnares/videos/10155282138718394/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

Good interview w Marc Maron here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/63FyR8xMSuYYn578hjI2Ha?context=spotify%3Ashow%3A6L47MDMO3xuN2XBed7miEI&si=t8jTQ7hFSRiZLSTV0Q5vjQ

Good interview, I posted it in another thread.

I know he's talked about making loops for Time Out of Mind elsewhere, and it's been reported many times that Dylan gave Lanois a whole bunch of old blues records (e.g. Charley Patton) prior to recording just to show him what he had in mind. I didn't realize the loops were an insurance policy though, so that part was pretty amusing. (As Lanois explains it, It was understood that Dylan wanted an old blues sound, but Lanois was afraid that they would end up sounding like a bar band. So he gathered the key players that were hired for the album and had them play along with the exact same records Dylan given him. Then he wiped those vintage records from the multi-track so that all that was left was their own playing, and those were turned into loops. That way if things didn't go so well at the recording sessions, he could dig those up and use them as is or as a backing track to play along with.) It feels like the kind of idea that would come from someone who was a really great cheater in school.

Anyway, this was discussed in another thread, but while Lanois did a good job with Oh Mercy, he didn't know when to stop and the results as released can sound overproduced. I prefer the earlier mixes/alternates of at least a handful of tracks on Tell Tale Signs, specifically "Everything Is Broken" from disc one (less cluttered), "Ring Them Bells" from disc three (no obtrusive overdubs), and "Most of the Time" from disc three (the mix actually breathes, it's not swamped in goo, which Dylan complained about). Also "Series of Dreams," "Dignity" and "Born in Time" should've made the album, and I think Lanois pushed for them (especially those first two songs) but Dylan wouldn't budge.

See, I enjoy the production on Oh Mercy: even through the swamp fog, the instruments are distinguishable; the spartan crew helped.

xpost That's very similar to the story I'd head of Dylan hearing one mix in his studio or while Lanois experimented and did other stuff in a different room, with a different feed. So I guess there was no way Dylan could say "turn that shit off," lol.

I love reading Dylan stories when they pop up in Tape Op. Like this one, from David Bianco:

How did you come to work with Bob Dylan?

When I got this room going, I found that, without hyping it up too much, or jazzing it up with EQ — using the right microphone for the right situation — I was getting really great natural sounds. I recorded an acoustic-based record (Can You Hear Me) with a fellow named Keaton Simons. Live acoustic guitar, drums, and bass, for the most part — there were a few cuts when we went electric — and it caught the ear of Bob's manager, vis-à-vis the head of the record company. They liked the acoustics of the record. They wanted somebody who could get a "live through one mic" sound, and Chess Records was the model for it. Bob was on the road in Nashville; they pulled in to do a recording and there was one microphone open. Bob was in the control room and said, "That's the way a record should sound." Not that Chess Records were one mic, because they weren't, but Bob had that concept so they asked me if I could do it. I said, "Sure, I can do that. No problem." But what I did do was sneak some microphones in the usual spots everywhere. We had everybody in one room, with everything bleeding; like the organ at 110 dB with an upright bass right next to it. You can imagine the degree of difficulty was pretty intense. But I did have the one mic. I researched and found the microphone that they had in the studio in Nashville. It was an AKG C422, so that I had the same mic up. I wasn't going to blow that. I recorded that mic, along with a couple of stereo Telefunkens and all the microphones I had discreetly placed on all the instruments. I was prepared when Bob came into the control room and said, "I can't hear Mike's (Campbell) guitar." I had an SM57 tucked inside his amp and pushed the fader up. Bob said, "Oh, yeah. That's better!" It was a lot of fun; we had a lot of success and a number one with that record (Together Through Life). The next time we met up was for a Christmas record. He told me that everyone was asking him how we got that sound on the last record. But he said, "I'm not going to tell 'em. I can't tell 'em." But I'm actually not sure he had any idea.

I was reading Daniel Lanois' book (Soul Mining: A Musical Life), and he mentions that Dylan was a bit of a shadowy figure, showing up at random times, and whatnot. Was that your experience?

No, Jack Frost (Dylan's nom de plume) was the producer. You know, if you have a vision and stick to it, that is part of production. Being able to stay on course. There are actually only a few guys in this town that can do that. Once you get into "Alice in Wonderland" in the studio, things really change. Very few guys can really hang onto it. When I first met Dylan, I didn't really think about what I was getting into until I was driving down the I405, to Jackson Browne's studio (Groove Masters), even though I had done a bunch of prep. I did three days of intense equipment chats with the crew at Jackson's studio. I really wanted to make sure my ducks were as close to in a row as they could possibly be. I did a lot of plug charts, as well as lists upon lists on how we could do this thing. It really didn't dawn on me until I got near the Skirball (Cultural Center), and I said to myself, "Holy shit! This is Bob Dylan!" I started to realize what he meant to me. I started to psyche myself out and realized I had better tamp that down! When I finally walked in there and met him, the first thing I did was go to shake hands and Bob goes like this (makes a fist for a fist bump])and I shook his fist. First meeting! I'm thinking, "Oh, my God!" Nobody warned me about that. I wish I had gotten the head's up. Bob said, "So, we're going to go in there and listen to the templates, and then we're going to record." I said, "Oh, we're doing covers?" He looked at me and went dark, blank-faced, and then said, "They're not covers, they're templates." We go in and listen to this Otis Rush song, which became "Beyond Here Lies Nothin'." We would go in and listen to the old tunes, taking those grooves and modifying the licks. On some of the tunes he didn't change the lick. He would look in the control room and say to his manager Jeff (Rosen), "What did you think of that?" He'd reply, "It's really too close, Bob." And Bob would say, "Aw, fuck it!" (laughs) So they paid for those and definitely had to give credit! Once we were mixing and getting it done, he says to me, "They don't make records that sound like this anymore." I said, "Yeah, it's like a Gestalt recording; you get the big picture all in one go." He thought that was the funniest thing he'd ever heard. He doubled over laughing and said, "I couldn't have said it better myself, and I learned a new word!" He always wanted us to have our meals together, like a family, and he listened to people completely. Not what you would imagine. He was always like, "And then what'd you do?" He was that guy! I got calls to do interviews during the sessions, about the sessions. I turned to his manager and said, "They called me about doing an interview about the sessions." He shut his laptop and said, "You know, there's no upside to talking about anything about Bob." I went, "Nuff said... okay!" And then he opened his laptop again.

There was another great Dylan story I read in Tape Op (I may be misremembering the exact details), where the producer or engineer had gotten all these expensive ribbon mics and the like, but Dylan walks in and heads strait for the shittiest mic in the room and just says something like "let's go." So they hit record and get a take, everyone says it sounds great, and the engineer says something like "now let's just swap out that mic," and Dylan responds stone faced "I thought you said it sounded great?" And they record the rest of the album with that shitty mic. Again, could be misremembering, but it's something like that.

In Heylin's book he listens to the final mix of Down in the Groove or whatever on a boom box. "I think it could use more bass."

Engineers all seem to have great Dylan stories.

Mark Howard (Lanois's main guy) gave a great interview on Dylan: https://www.uncut.co.uk/features/bob-dylan-tell-tale-signs-special-mark-howard-37964/

Chris Shaw also gave on to Uncut - he got Dylan to switch to Pro Tools, and it's pretty amusing: https://www.uncut.co.uk/features/recording-with-bob-dylan-chris-shaw-tells-all-37854/

*one to Uncut

On some of the tunes he didn't change the lick. He would look in the control room and say to his manager Jeff (Rosen), "What did you think of that?" He'd reply, "It's really too close, Bob." And Bob would say, "Aw, fuck it!" (laughs) So they paid for those and definitely had to give credit!

LMAO

Great! We got to talking Lanois & Dylan here recently: Phil Spector's dead to me now Also good stuff about the roles etc. of producers.

FWIW, Uncut went nuts a interviewed a lot of people who recorded with Dylan between 1989 and 2006.

Malcolm Burn is another good one to read from Oh Mercy: https://www.uncut.co.uk/features/bob-dylan-tell-tales-special-online-exclusive-part-2-37975/

He was actually the main engineer as well as one of the instrumentalists, but he wound up playing so often that Mark Howard handled most of the engineering during the recording. The best parts give a layman's idea of how Dylan thinks/operates when he records, it makes a lot of things less mystifying. For example:

Nothing on the record took a lot of takes really. The only thing we took a lot of time getting – and this is another interesting thing about is approach – is like, if he was fixing a vocal part. Y’know if he wanted to punch in just a part of a song again. It was never about whether it was in tune or out of tune or anything like that. It would be – let’s say he’s singing a replacement line – he’d sing it and you’d try to mix it into the original track, he’d listen to it and he’s say, “Ah, nah, nah, nah. That’s not the guy.” And I’d say, “The guy?” And he’d say, “Yeah. It’s not the same guy.”

And I really understood. It’s like acting, you’re trying to find the character or a motivation. So many singers I’ve worked with are so self-conscious about being in tune, they’re so worried about how they sound, and they’ll sing a line, and it’ll maybe sound better and it’ll be in tune – but it’s not the same personality. And I’ll say to them, “I don’t care if the first take is a little out of tune – it’s not the same personality.” And that was something I learned from Bob. I learned a lot from him on that about that kind of thing. So when he came to fixing up a vocal, I’d say to him: “Yeah that’s the guy.” And it would be the guy. The guy, the character he had invented for that particular thing. I mean an extreme example is, if you listen to “Lay, Lady, Lay.” Who’s that guy?

Also Lanois himself gets interviewed, but you should read drummer David Kemper's first: https://www.uncut.co.uk/features/bob-dylan-behind-the-scenes-of-tell-tale-signs-part-12-37864/

Kemper was the drummer during NET's peak years - he played long before Charlie Sexton joined and played most of the shows that featured Sexton and Larry Campbell on dual guitars. He didn't get along with Lanois at all, and when Uncut tells Lanois about the things Kemper said, it feels pretty damn awkward:

https://www.uncut.co.uk/features/bob-dylan-tell-tale-signs-special-part-ten-37884/

*and interviewed

Howard and Burn are both Lanois acolytes, iirc.

Forgot one, guitarist Mason Ruffner: https://www.uncut.co.uk/features/the-real-dylan-revealed-tell-tale-signs-special-part-11-37874/

Pretty short, but it's another good eyewitness POV on how those sessions rolled. Dylan even paid him a generous compliment:

One thing that sticks with me, I kind of got a wow-factor from Bob this one time. I played this little guitar solo on the end of this song “Disease Of Conceit”, he kind of gave me the wow-factor with that. He wrote me a letter after the session, saying that he’d played that recording for Eric Clapton, and Clapton was wondering if it was Mark Knopfler playing. I guess he was feeding me a compliment – I wasn’t sure – but I know he liked that.

It's a beautiful guitar part, but it's also too bad it's a crap song, lyrically speaking - should've been a B-side at best.

I think if Clapton thinks you're Knoplfer, yeah, that's a compliment.

Howard and Burn are both Lanois acolytes, iirc.

Yup, they worked on a lot of his stuff. Last I heard Howard was fighting cancer and I think there was even a fundraiser to help pay the bills, but I think he's bounced back.

Howard was also on Sound Opinions before he got sick and told a key story to Dylan - if you're working with him, it's easy to have a normal conversation like we're having right now, but as soon as, say, a guest or an outsider drops by, Dylan suddenly turns on the weird Dylan act. He uses Billy Bob Thornton as an example, because he did pay a visit just to see Dylan - Thornton tried to shake his hand and Dylan shook his pinky. It reminds me of stories I hear about Lou Reed, but it's like there's a public persona he puts on, partly to shield himself, but when it's just him and someone he knows, he relaxes and just acts like a regular guy.

The whole thing about dropping in on somebody working---I'd never do that, unless I was working too (like an in-person interview, ugh), *and* of course if I had an appointment, but even then it would feel weird, and what if things weren't going well when I got there, or were just too intense for shifting gears/distractions---ughhhh And if it's Famous Person having lunch etc., no way gonna go over there and "Hey Man" fuck that

If it's "I'm a famous Billy Bob too, and a fan I am!" still ng

(Of course bothering Dylan would have anecdotal/interview value.}

Since were talking Lanois and Dylan, here’s another excuse to share the version of “With God On Our Side” he produced for the Nevilles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH_6qdk8zAE

The story he told Maron about using the Roland TR-808 drum machine to do the demos for Oh Mercy was awesome. Do any of those exist?

I prefer YM to TOOM.

Me too. Yellow Moon also has that beautiful version of "A Change is Gonna Come" (with Eno on backing vox).

Fun fact: "The Maker" (probably the best know Lanois solo song?) is built around a leftover track from the "Yellow Moon" sessions.

Speaking of Time Out of Mind, I just checked out the Lanois production discography, and it's been a super weird run since that Dylan album, as if he was specifically trying to get out of his comfort zone. The first odd credit is actually Luscious Jackson, which he worked on right before Time Out of Mind, but since then it's been odd. A lot of work for his band mates and buddies that no one else cares about, like Rocco Deluca and Mother Superior/Jim Wilson. I've seen him do some odd shows here, like one backed by half of Tortoise (bad fit) and his group Black Dub (Lanois on guitar, Brian Blade on drums, and Daryl Johnson on bass, plus Trixie Whitley), which is awesome on paper but was dull in practice.

Yeah, I mention upthread that in the Here Is What Is documentary, Lanois has this kind of staged conversation with Brian Blade for the cameras where he explains how he wants Blad to play over Willie Green's drum track for "The Maker" again for a new version of "Where Will I Be?" Sort of a dubious interaction but prolly my favorite thing by him.

Fake edit -- here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCnBIdOR8_U

I could listen to Brian Blade play drums all day.

For that matter, I love Lanois's guitar playing (and he usually uses the same guitar, pickups and amp as Neil Young, I think: old Goldtop with Firebird and P90 pickups in it through a Fender Bassman). I got to see him and Blade as a duo a few times, just incredible.

Blade's "Nobel Peace Prize! NO-BEL PEACE PRIZE!" thing is such prototypical inscrutable weird jazz dude humor.

Since Time Out of Mind, the only Lanois albums I'm really familiar with are Teatro, All That You Can't Leave Behind, No Line on the Horizon and Le Noise. Teatro is okay, I actually like ATYCLB and most of NLotH (though it has some really awful shit on it), and Le Noise is probably my favorite Neil Young album post-'90s though the competition there isn't great.

Agree with most of that, particularly NLOTH which has two of my favorite U2 songs. I wasn’t in love with Teatro, but Le Noise is a great sounding record. “Hitchhiker” lives up to the legend, and “Someone’s Gonna Rescue You” is classic Neil.

Goodbye to Language is soooooooo good

"Le Noise" is great, a perfect use of Lanois. "No Line ..." ... I've tried, and I mostly *like* U2, but whenever I go back to it there's just not much I get out of it. I can practically hear the band losing the courage of its convictions in real time, which I suppose makes sense, given the album was supposed to be weird and adventurous but the band wimped out. I remember being bummed out, because I think it's the first U2 album where Eno and Lanois share a lot writing credits - or get credit - but it just fails to live up to its potential.

All of Lanois' solo albums are pretty good to great, iirc. He's a great singer/songwriter, but also super when it's just him and a lap steel.

Down the rabbit hole, it's Lanois interviewed by Pharrell:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihcPhJF3wyg

And here he is toying with a Lexington Prime Time delay processor in a band setting, very dub-minded:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I31pLAZQf0c

"No Line ..." ... I've tried, and I mostly *like* U2, but whenever I go back to it there's just not much I get out of it. I can practically hear the band losing the courage of its convictions in real time, which I suppose makes sense, given the album was supposed to be weird and adventurous but the band wimped out. I remember being bummed out, because I think it's the first U2 album where Eno and Lanois share a lot writing credits - or get credit - but it just fails to live up to its potential.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I wasn't expecting anything miraculous, but I did like the idea of the band taking some real chances again. When I first played it, I thought "hey, this may be a good album," but then it's like the band went into a panic and we get "I'll Go Crazy If I Don't Go Crazy Tonight" wedged in there, followed by "Get On Your Boots" (not just a shitty single, they made it the LEAD single for crissakes) and "Stand Up Comedy" which were too awful for the album to make a full recovery. A shame because the rest is good.

A bit later, I noticed some U2 fans re-editing the album, slicing out "I'll Go Crazy," "Get On Your Boots" and "Stand Up Comedy," slotting in "Winter" (the version from the Linear DVD which apparently WAS intended for the album but cut at the last minute) and opening with the brief "Soon" which had ended up as a B-side. Someone uploaded it to Soundcloud somewhere and IMHO it's a big improvement - a solid, commendable album from start-to-finish. I'd probably throw in "Every Breaking Wave" too if the original version ever leaks out. Disappointing that it was ultimately compromised, but I think the material is there for what would have been their last good album.

I think the band was somewhat chastened by the failed Moroccan sessions and likely facing some pressure from the label. It’s a shame because I agree the good material on that record is probably some of their best work with Eno and Lanois.

That Pharrell interview is great, tho the naked lady serving them water is 👀.

Yeah, I assume that was Pharrell trying to be cute, since it happens when he's talking about the important of spontaneity in the studio.

With "No Line ...", I think it really *was* the band chickening out. First it followed the aborted sessions with Rick Rubin. Then the band got cold feet about being too experimental. There are some telling quotes in the wiki (which actually pull-quotes an interview with Eno I did!):

The band scaled back these experimental pursuits, however; Mullen noted: "at a certain stage, reality hits, and you go, 'What are we gonna do with this stuff?' Are we going to release this sort of meandering experimentation, or are we gonna knock some songs out of this?"

Then later, after the album failed to make much of an impression:

The Edge concurred, admitting that the group erred by "starting out experimental and then trying to bring it into something that was more accessible". He added, "I think probably we should have said, 'It's an experimental work. That's what it is.' "Mullen refers to the album as "No Craic on the Horizon" and said, "It was pretty fucking miserable. It turns out that we're not as good as we thought we were and things got in the way." He attributed the release of "Get On Your Boots" as the album's lead single as "the beginning of the end," as the album would not recover from the song's negative reception.

Hah, nice! And I just learned a new word today: craic.

U2 seemed to be okay with low-key releases in the past (Zooropa being a particular favorite), but beginning with Pop, they've gotten really panicky, and I think this was BEFORE Pop came out too, not after - to my understanding, they had the world tour booked and rushed work on it (particularly the lead single, "Discothèque") so they could release it in time for marketing to build the momentum needed for a big summer single. Since then, everything's been so calculated to the point where U2 became more of a corporation than a band. As much as I liked ATYCLB, it was more of a case where sound artistic intent fortunately lined up with their long-term business strategy, which had nothing to do with breaking ground and all about rebuilding their commercial fortunes. It's a far cry from a band that hired Eno against the initial objections of label head Chris Blackwell.

(Should clarify, Pop overall was an attempt to try something new, but it still had the first real troubling sign of business goals compromising their work.)

Damn, who's the drummer on that KEXP session??

Blade.

As for U2 and NLOTH, don’t discount the acrimony over the Passengers project either. It is kind of telling they haven’t worked with Eno or Lanois since this one.

He's a great singer/songwriter, but also super when it's just him and a lap steel.

No, that's not Blade (in the last video that Josh posted)

Touring commitments compromised Pop from the start.

Also, the band saved their worst, most conventional songs rejected from AB andZooropa ("Wake Up Dead Man") for Pop.

Yeah, don't know who that drummer is, but it's not Blade.

With U2, I seem to recall a claim their tours didn't really generate huge profits until after Pop, and for as long as they've been rock stars, I don't think it's been until the All That You Can't Leave Behind album and beyond that their tours have really started raking in the big bucks. Clearly their accountants took a lay of the land and the band took whatever advice they got to heart.

Ok the drummer is Kyle Crane, whose claim to fame is being the drum double in Whiplash (ie any time it cuts to the hands and actually looks like the hands of a good drummer)

My bad, I was thinking of his Tiny Desk concert.

(Willie Nelson sounds like a guest on his own Teatro)

heh this might be my second favorite Willie record since his Outlaw heyday came to a close (Spirit is better)
but tbf he's released a LOT in the last 40 years and I've heard very few.

(Willie Nelson sounds like a guest on his own Teatro)

I didn't see this (I need to start reading thread starters). LMAO. This sounds like a common complaint with Lanois albums - as much as I like Emmylou Harris's Wrecking Ball, it could've been credited as a Daniel Lanois album with guest vocalist Emmylou Harris, and I wouldn't have questioned it. With Willie, he's made a ton of albums loaded with guest stars and a ton that's basically shared with someone else, so Teatro kind of fits into that tradition except this time he's sharing top-billing with a producer rather than a performer.

Willie's output since the whole IRS thing has been impressive as hell. Right after he settled his tax problems, he recorded one last album for Columbia before they dropped him, and on of that he turned 60, yet he's been ridiculously prolific. I have a real soft spot for that last Columbia album, Across the Borderline. Even if it seems fairly calculated, who cares? He still hits every target. Spirit is easily my favorite, hands down his greatest album since his '70s classics. Even his last few albums have been consistently good too. Teatro is a commendable album, and Lanois's production certainly distinguishes it, but it's not one of my favorites from either Willie or Lanois.

*on top of that he turned 60