What Does ILM Think of Daniel Lanois?

what is a good bj cole album to start with

― marcos, Tuesday, September 13, 2016 2:32 PM (forty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

iirc there are only two: The New Hovering Dog, which is the "classic," and one that came out many years later on Hannibal whose name escapes me but is probably more what you're looking for (less song-based). Both, as I recall, are really great if you dig this sort of thing. See also: Chas Smith (who's even further 'out')

I've listened to some later BJ Cole and always has an 'oh' reaction - one of those where you mean to return but never do. Just discovered the New Hovering Dog is on Spotify and has Robert Kirby arrangements (Nick Drake's buddy) and Danny Thompson on bass.

I've always dug "Indian Red" from the Wynona album, maybe its only because it expands on the mid-80s U2/Robbie Robertson sound, just, without the Bono or the Robbie. I especially like how Peter Gabriel used him as a plucked instrument and less-so for defining the entire palette.

...Bit of a proto Nigel Godrich?

I can't help but think that The Unforgettable Fire is the lousiest sounding album U2 put out in the '80s, and probably the worst production on a U2 album until Pop.

My ears must be broke

I'd kill to see All the Pretty Horses restored with Lanois' score

BJ Cole also did a record with Luke Vibert. I haven't heard it in quite a few years, but remember liking it.

'goodbye to language' is all I'm listening to this week in this household, only 36 minutes long but inexhaustibly great. the textures of Apollo smeared and extended out, unexpected late period add to the eno/lanois ambient music chapter (in the liner notes, evidently Eno tipped Daniel to the tiny sampler used for this album -- he bolted it to the steel guitar, to make it a physical part of the instrument)

interesting how the NPR preview & even my iTunes mp3 tags of the CD call it a Lanois solo album, but the packaging clearly calls it the duo: Daniel Lanois / Rocco Deluca

definitely time for me to go back and check out some of the other Lanois solos, especially the instrumental ones

All I know of Daniel Lanois as a musican is Eno's Apollo and now Goodbye to Language, which is knocking me out. Are all his albums in this vein or does he jump around?

A few, Acadie, For the Beauty of Wynona and Shine, are singer-songwriter but beautiful and excellent. Others are more experimental, some quietly, some more noisy.

He jumps around but they all have a lot of texture. I find his singer songwriter stuff to be excellent sometimes—his solo recording of "Where Will I Be" on Here Is What Is is amazing—but often pretty turgid.

"Where Will I Be" is such a wonderful song. He's got a couple, like that, which almost sound like standards at this point.

I think turgid is too strong a word. Like, this is slow and moody, but not turgid, imo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3MA_7GUoyQ

Kind of samey as a solo artist but excellent as a guest artist. His work with Eno and U2 in the million dollar hotel ost is gorgeous. I normally cant stand U2 but whenever Lanois is involved it sounds great. Also Oh Mercy might be one of my favorite Dylan albums for Lanois touch. Most of the Time might just be my favorite Dylan song

Kind of samey as a solo artist

Acadie is all over the place, stick with that and you're good.

"most of the time" is so fuckin' great

Didn't know he had a new one out.

The one I only really listen to repeatedly is Purple Vista so I'm down with ambient pedal steel

Also I might be biased because I've heard a local jazz singer covering this song several times and it sounds beautiful live but black dub's I believe in you sounds like a classic to me:

http://youtu.be/F13vy1fT870

Possibly. But I fuckin' hate the Black Dub singer w a passion (Chris Whitley's daughter). Or pretty much any Janis Joplin-influenced singer.

Yeah, Lanois really keeps/kept going to bat for her and that Rocco guy.

listened to lanois' new one this morning with this happening outside my bus window, perfect visual accompaniment
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CviVRUbXYAEHwGW.jpg:large

Well...Wrt to Chris Whitley's daughter, given her father I bet she's had some tough times in her life so maybe he's just trying to help

i feel like wrecking ball is a big touchstone for a lot of modern country production

makes sense to me

https://www.facebook.com/vsnares/videos/10155282138718394/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

Good interview w Marc Maron here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/63FyR8xMSuYYn578hjI2Ha?context=spotify%3Ashow%3A6L47MDMO3xuN2XBed7miEI&si=t8jTQ7hFSRiZLSTV0Q5vjQ

Good interview, I posted it in another thread.

I know he's talked about making loops for Time Out of Mind elsewhere, and it's been reported many times that Dylan gave Lanois a whole bunch of old blues records (e.g. Charley Patton) prior to recording just to show him what he had in mind. I didn't realize the loops were an insurance policy though, so that part was pretty amusing. (As Lanois explains it, It was understood that Dylan wanted an old blues sound, but Lanois was afraid that they would end up sounding like a bar band. So he gathered the key players that were hired for the album and had them play along with the exact same records Dylan given him. Then he wiped those vintage records from the multi-track so that all that was left was their own playing, and those were turned into loops. That way if things didn't go so well at the recording sessions, he could dig those up and use them as is or as a backing track to play along with.) It feels like the kind of idea that would come from someone who was a really great cheater in school.

Anyway, this was discussed in another thread, but while Lanois did a good job with Oh Mercy, he didn't know when to stop and the results as released can sound overproduced. I prefer the earlier mixes/alternates of at least a handful of tracks on Tell Tale Signs, specifically "Everything Is Broken" from disc one (less cluttered), "Ring Them Bells" from disc three (no obtrusive overdubs), and "Most of the Time" from disc three (the mix actually breathes, it's not swamped in goo, which Dylan complained about). Also "Series of Dreams," "Dignity" and "Born in Time" should've made the album, and I think Lanois pushed for them (especially those first two songs) but Dylan wouldn't budge.

See, I enjoy the production on Oh Mercy: even through the swamp fog, the instruments are distinguishable; the spartan crew helped.

xpost That's very similar to the story I'd head of Dylan hearing one mix in his studio or while Lanois experimented and did other stuff in a different room, with a different feed. So I guess there was no way Dylan could say "turn that shit off," lol.

I love reading Dylan stories when they pop up in Tape Op. Like this one, from David Bianco:

How did you come to work with Bob Dylan?

When I got this room going, I found that, without hyping it up too much, or jazzing it up with EQ — using the right microphone for the right situation — I was getting really great natural sounds. I recorded an acoustic-based record (Can You Hear Me) with a fellow named Keaton Simons. Live acoustic guitar, drums, and bass, for the most part — there were a few cuts when we went electric — and it caught the ear of Bob's manager, vis-à-vis the head of the record company. They liked the acoustics of the record. They wanted somebody who could get a "live through one mic" sound, and Chess Records was the model for it. Bob was on the road in Nashville; they pulled in to do a recording and there was one microphone open. Bob was in the control room and said, "That's the way a record should sound." Not that Chess Records were one mic, because they weren't, but Bob had that concept so they asked me if I could do it. I said, "Sure, I can do that. No problem." But what I did do was sneak some microphones in the usual spots everywhere. We had everybody in one room, with everything bleeding; like the organ at 110 dB with an upright bass right next to it. You can imagine the degree of difficulty was pretty intense. But I did have the one mic. I researched and found the microphone that they had in the studio in Nashville. It was an AKG C422, so that I had the same mic up. I wasn't going to blow that. I recorded that mic, along with a couple of stereo Telefunkens and all the microphones I had discreetly placed on all the instruments. I was prepared when Bob came into the control room and said, "I can't hear Mike's (Campbell) guitar." I had an SM57 tucked inside his amp and pushed the fader up. Bob said, "Oh, yeah. That's better!" It was a lot of fun; we had a lot of success and a number one with that record (Together Through Life). The next time we met up was for a Christmas record. He told me that everyone was asking him how we got that sound on the last record. But he said, "I'm not going to tell 'em. I can't tell 'em." But I'm actually not sure he had any idea.

I was reading Daniel Lanois' book (Soul Mining: A Musical Life), and he mentions that Dylan was a bit of a shadowy figure, showing up at random times, and whatnot. Was that your experience?

No, Jack Frost (Dylan's nom de plume) was the producer. You know, if you have a vision and stick to it, that is part of production. Being able to stay on course. There are actually only a few guys in this town that can do that. Once you get into "Alice in Wonderland" in the studio, things really change. Very few guys can really hang onto it. When I first met Dylan, I didn't really think about what I was getting into until I was driving down the I405, to Jackson Browne's studio (Groove Masters), even though I had done a bunch of prep. I did three days of intense equipment chats with the crew at Jackson's studio. I really wanted to make sure my ducks were as close to in a row as they could possibly be. I did a lot of plug charts, as well as lists upon lists on how we could do this thing. It really didn't dawn on me until I got near the Skirball (Cultural Center), and I said to myself, "Holy shit! This is Bob Dylan!" I started to realize what he meant to me. I started to psyche myself out and realized I had better tamp that down! When I finally walked in there and met him, the first thing I did was go to shake hands and Bob goes like this (makes a fist for a fist bump])and I shook his fist. First meeting! I'm thinking, "Oh, my God!" Nobody warned me about that. I wish I had gotten the head's up. Bob said, "So, we're going to go in there and listen to the templates, and then we're going to record." I said, "Oh, we're doing covers?" He looked at me and went dark, blank-faced, and then said, "They're not covers, they're templates." We go in and listen to this Otis Rush song, which became "Beyond Here Lies Nothin'." We would go in and listen to the old tunes, taking those grooves and modifying the licks. On some of the tunes he didn't change the lick. He would look in the control room and say to his manager Jeff (Rosen), "What did you think of that?" He'd reply, "It's really too close, Bob." And Bob would say, "Aw, fuck it!" (laughs) So they paid for those and definitely had to give credit! Once we were mixing and getting it done, he says to me, "They don't make records that sound like this anymore." I said, "Yeah, it's like a Gestalt recording; you get the big picture all in one go." He thought that was the funniest thing he'd ever heard. He doubled over laughing and said, "I couldn't have said it better myself, and I learned a new word!" He always wanted us to have our meals together, like a family, and he listened to people completely. Not what you would imagine. He was always like, "And then what'd you do?" He was that guy! I got calls to do interviews during the sessions, about the sessions. I turned to his manager and said, "They called me about doing an interview about the sessions." He shut his laptop and said, "You know, there's no upside to talking about anything about Bob." I went, "Nuff said... okay!" And then he opened his laptop again.

There was another great Dylan story I read in Tape Op (I may be misremembering the exact details), where the producer or engineer had gotten all these expensive ribbon mics and the like, but Dylan walks in and heads strait for the shittiest mic in the room and just says something like "let's go." So they hit record and get a take, everyone says it sounds great, and the engineer says something like "now let's just swap out that mic," and Dylan responds stone faced "I thought you said it sounded great?" And they record the rest of the album with that shitty mic. Again, could be misremembering, but it's something like that.

In Heylin's book he listens to the final mix of Down in the Groove or whatever on a boom box. "I think it could use more bass."

Engineers all seem to have great Dylan stories.

Mark Howard (Lanois's main guy) gave a great interview on Dylan: https://www.uncut.co.uk/features/bob-dylan-tell-tale-signs-special-mark-howard-37964/

Chris Shaw also gave on to Uncut - he got Dylan to switch to Pro Tools, and it's pretty amusing: https://www.uncut.co.uk/features/recording-with-bob-dylan-chris-shaw-tells-all-37854/

*one to Uncut

On some of the tunes he didn't change the lick. He would look in the control room and say to his manager Jeff (Rosen), "What did you think of that?" He'd reply, "It's really too close, Bob." And Bob would say, "Aw, fuck it!" (laughs) So they paid for those and definitely had to give credit!

LMAO

Great! We got to talking Lanois & Dylan here recently: Phil Spector's dead to me now Also good stuff about the roles etc. of producers.

FWIW, Uncut went nuts a interviewed a lot of people who recorded with Dylan between 1989 and 2006.

Malcolm Burn is another good one to read from Oh Mercy: https://www.uncut.co.uk/features/bob-dylan-tell-tales-special-online-exclusive-part-2-37975/

He was actually the main engineer as well as one of the instrumentalists, but he wound up playing so often that Mark Howard handled most of the engineering during the recording. The best parts give a layman's idea of how Dylan thinks/operates when he records, it makes a lot of things less mystifying. For example:

Nothing on the record took a lot of takes really. The only thing we took a lot of time getting – and this is another interesting thing about is approach – is like, if he was fixing a vocal part. Y’know if he wanted to punch in just a part of a song again. It was never about whether it was in tune or out of tune or anything like that. It would be – let’s say he’s singing a replacement line – he’d sing it and you’d try to mix it into the original track, he’d listen to it and he’s say, “Ah, nah, nah, nah. That’s not the guy.” And I’d say, “The guy?” And he’d say, “Yeah. It’s not the same guy.”

And I really understood. It’s like acting, you’re trying to find the character or a motivation. So many singers I’ve worked with are so self-conscious about being in tune, they’re so worried about how they sound, and they’ll sing a line, and it’ll maybe sound better and it’ll be in tune – but it’s not the same personality. And I’ll say to them, “I don’t care if the first take is a little out of tune – it’s not the same personality.” And that was something I learned from Bob. I learned a lot from him on that about that kind of thing. So when he came to fixing up a vocal, I’d say to him: “Yeah that’s the guy.” And it would be the guy. The guy, the character he had invented for that particular thing. I mean an extreme example is, if you listen to “Lay, Lady, Lay.” Who’s that guy?

Also Lanois himself gets interviewed, but you should read drummer David Kemper's first: https://www.uncut.co.uk/features/bob-dylan-behind-the-scenes-of-tell-tale-signs-part-12-37864/

Kemper was the drummer during NET's peak years - he played long before Charlie Sexton joined and played most of the shows that featured Sexton and Larry Campbell on dual guitars. He didn't get along with Lanois at all, and when Uncut tells Lanois about the things Kemper said, it feels pretty damn awkward:

https://www.uncut.co.uk/features/bob-dylan-tell-tale-signs-special-part-ten-37884/

*and interviewed

Howard and Burn are both Lanois acolytes, iirc.

Forgot one, guitarist Mason Ruffner: https://www.uncut.co.uk/features/the-real-dylan-revealed-tell-tale-signs-special-part-11-37874/

Pretty short, but it's another good eyewitness POV on how those sessions rolled. Dylan even paid him a generous compliment:

One thing that sticks with me, I kind of got a wow-factor from Bob this one time. I played this little guitar solo on the end of this song “Disease Of Conceit”, he kind of gave me the wow-factor with that. He wrote me a letter after the session, saying that he’d played that recording for Eric Clapton, and Clapton was wondering if it was Mark Knopfler playing. I guess he was feeding me a compliment – I wasn’t sure – but I know he liked that.

It's a beautiful guitar part, but it's also too bad it's a crap song, lyrically speaking - should've been a B-side at best.

I think if Clapton thinks you're Knoplfer, yeah, that's a compliment.

Howard and Burn are both Lanois acolytes, iirc.

Yup, they worked on a lot of his stuff. Last I heard Howard was fighting cancer and I think there was even a fundraiser to help pay the bills, but I think he's bounced back.

Howard was also on Sound Opinions before he got sick and told a key story to Dylan - if you're working with him, it's easy to have a normal conversation like we're having right now, but as soon as, say, a guest or an outsider drops by, Dylan suddenly turns on the weird Dylan act. He uses Billy Bob Thornton as an example, because he did pay a visit just to see Dylan - Thornton tried to shake his hand and Dylan shook his pinky. It reminds me of stories I hear about Lou Reed, but it's like there's a public persona he puts on, partly to shield himself, but when it's just him and someone he knows, he relaxes and just acts like a regular guy.

The whole thing about dropping in on somebody working---I'd never do that, unless I was working too (like an in-person interview, ugh), *and* of course if I had an appointment, but even then it would feel weird, and what if things weren't going well when I got there, or were just too intense for shifting gears/distractions---ughhhh And if it's Famous Person having lunch etc., no way gonna go over there and "Hey Man" fuck that

If it's "I'm a famous Billy Bob too, and a fan I am!" still ng

(Of course bothering Dylan would have anecdotal/interview value.}

Since were talking Lanois and Dylan, here’s another excuse to share the version of “With God On Our Side” he produced for the Nevilles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH_6qdk8zAE

The story he told Maron about using the Roland TR-808 drum machine to do the demos for Oh Mercy was awesome. Do any of those exist?

I prefer YM to TOOM.

Me too. Yellow Moon also has that beautiful version of "A Change is Gonna Come" (with Eno on backing vox).

Fun fact: "The Maker" (probably the best know Lanois solo song?) is built around a leftover track from the "Yellow Moon" sessions.

Speaking of Time Out of Mind, I just checked out the Lanois production discography, and it's been a super weird run since that Dylan album, as if he was specifically trying to get out of his comfort zone. The first odd credit is actually Luscious Jackson, which he worked on right before Time Out of Mind, but since then it's been odd. A lot of work for his band mates and buddies that no one else cares about, like Rocco Deluca and Mother Superior/Jim Wilson. I've seen him do some odd shows here, like one backed by half of Tortoise (bad fit) and his group Black Dub (Lanois on guitar, Brian Blade on drums, and Daryl Johnson on bass, plus Trixie Whitley), which is awesome on paper but was dull in practice.

Yeah, I mention upthread that in the Here Is What Is documentary, Lanois has this kind of staged conversation with Brian Blade for the cameras where he explains how he wants Blad to play over Willie Green's drum track for "The Maker" again for a new version of "Where Will I Be?" Sort of a dubious interaction but prolly my favorite thing by him.

Fake edit -- here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCnBIdOR8_U

I could listen to Brian Blade play drums all day.

For that matter, I love Lanois's guitar playing (and he usually uses the same guitar, pickups and amp as Neil Young, I think: old Goldtop with Firebird and P90 pickups in it through a Fender Bassman). I got to see him and Blade as a duo a few times, just incredible.

Blade's "Nobel Peace Prize! NO-BEL PEACE PRIZE!" thing is such prototypical inscrutable weird jazz dude humor.

Since Time Out of Mind, the only Lanois albums I'm really familiar with are Teatro, All That You Can't Leave Behind, No Line on the Horizon and Le Noise. Teatro is okay, I actually like ATYCLB and most of NLotH (though it has some really awful shit on it), and Le Noise is probably my favorite Neil Young album post-'90s though the competition there isn't great.