I'd be all up for excluding The Beatles from a '60s poll, but the thing is you'd need to find an approach for the poll that justifies their exclusion, else I can think of at least one or two folks on here that would piss and moan about it. Likewise with The Beach Boys.
I'm thinking maybe a general "non-canonical" approach might be the way to go, therefore Pet Sounds gets excluded but you're still able to vote for, say, Smiley Smile or Wild Honey. It'd exclude Beggars Banquet or Let It Bleed, but you'd still be able to vote for, say, Between The Buttons. It'd exclude The Beatles completely.
― the hair - it's lost its energy (Turrican), Saturday, 10 September 2016 02:45 (seven years ago) link
You wouldn't be able to vote for Forever Changes, but you'd be able to vote for Love etc.
― the hair - it's lost its energy (Turrican), Saturday, 10 September 2016 02:47 (seven years ago) link
Or you can allow psychedelic and art rock but not just rock. It's too hard to decide and that's prob why the poll never happened :)
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 02:48 (seven years ago) link
of course the real fun was in the long roll out and noone really cared about the top 10 as they were more interested in discovering new to them albums or seeing their obscure faves make it.
Just take three 60s lists from magazines (Rolling Stone, Mojo, etc) and make whatever's in their top 100/200 results ineligible. That's a good way to exclude "canonical" albums without excluding artists entirely.
― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Saturday, 10 September 2016 03:14 (seven years ago) link
there was no stones or the who in the 70s poll
"Baba O'Riley" was my #1 in the tracks poll!
― Hi! I'm twice-coloured! (Sund4r), Saturday, 10 September 2016 04:14 (seven years ago) link
I think we made an exception for tracks poll as a compromise
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 13:21 (seven years ago) link
Wouldnt work for these type of polls. It's not meant to be just another 60 poll, its a certain kind of sound, a harder edged poll or full on experimental or soul/funk so it would be daft to exclude 'stand' or 'trout mask replica'
im thinking that under 'psych' we could allow that one stones album for instance and clearly forever changes has to be allowed.
nothings gonna happen for 6 months anyway so plenty of time to ponder it but all suggestions welcome
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 14:47 (seven years ago) link
was it you JF who ran a decade poll that eliminated anything that had been in the previous poll? That worked but i feel its a different spirit of poll that I have in mind for this.
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 14:48 (seven years ago) link
I think we would have to decide on 'genres' that are allowed first.
Also just ban the beatles, beach boys, rolling stones, dylan, van morrison just because.
love, kinks etc getting in the canon is actually fairly recent so i've no probs including either of those as early kinks = hard rockin and love = psych or folk rock.Not banning VU or Beefheart as clearly they are very much in the spirit of the poll.
so yes when it comes down to it it will be completely arbitrary and down to mine and stirmonsters whims :)
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 15:05 (seven years ago) link
i suppose their satanic majesties request could be allowed but sgt peppers can get to fuck!
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 15:06 (seven years ago) link
im coming around to the idea of just banning rock albums that are both in mojo and rolling stone top 20s plus no beatles, beach boys, dylan at all
as someone said theres other VU or Love albums that ppl can vote for.
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 15:23 (seven years ago) link
mojo and rolling stone dont seem to have any best albums of the 60s polls. Probably because most of the albums in their all-time polls come from the 60s anyway?
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 15:34 (seven years ago) link
just ban all of these?
MOJO READERS: THE 100 GREATEST ALBUMS EVER MADEJanuary 1996 Edition
1. The Beatles - Revolver2. The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds3. The Beatles - Abbey Road4. The Beatles - The Beatles5. Van Morrison - Astral Weeks6. The Beatles - Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band7. Bob Dylan - Highway 61 Revisited8. The Rolling Stones - Exile On Main Street9. Bob Dylan - Blonde On Blonde10. Bob Dylan - Blood On The Tracks11. Love - Forever Changes12. The Rolling Stones - Let It Bleed13. The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground And Nico14. Jimi Hendrix Experience - Electric Ladyland17. Jimi Hendrix Experience - Are You Experienced?18. The Doors - The Doors Joni Mitchell - Blue19. The Beatles - Rubber Soul
and anything else by the beatles?
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 15:38 (seven years ago) link
I think Johnny Fever has the right idea, to tally up the records that usually make these lists and eliminate them completely. You don't have to eliminate entire band's discographies. Even The Beatles have Beatles For Sale.
― the hair - it's lost its energy (Turrican), Saturday, 10 September 2016 18:23 (seven years ago) link
its not meant to be a poll with each bands 2nd best records instead if their best.
the poll has to be a continuation of the spirit of the 70s and 80s versions of the poll.
Feels ridiculous to ban trout mask replica or velvet underground & nico in a poll that celebrates arty music
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 18:31 (seven years ago) link
im sure stirmonster & I will work something out
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 18:33 (seven years ago) link
If you're going to get rid of The Beatles or Pet Sounds or Forever Changes, you'd have to do the same with The Velvet Underground & Nico and Trout Mask Replica. Both of those are long-time staples of '60s lists!
― the hair - it's lost its energy (Turrican), Saturday, 10 September 2016 18:37 (seven years ago) link
Having just spoken to him he's up for being quite militant and ruthless with banning Beatles, Stones, Dylan.
and also banning the albums on that list above as it still allows votes for other great albums by Love, VU and Captain Beefheart.
We wont be banning any jazz acts for instance. Just the big rock albums and a few dominant bands.
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 18:37 (seven years ago) link
so yeah those 3 will be gone, turrican
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 18:38 (seven years ago) link
so nothing by The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Beach Boys & Bob Dylan.and none of these albums
Van Morrison - Astral WeeksLove - Forever ChangesThe Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground And NicoCaptain Beefheart & His Magic Band - Trout Mask Replica
and these?
Jimi Hendrix Experience - Electric LadylandJimi Hendrix Experience - Are You Experienced?The Doors - The Doors
I like every album we're not allowing btw so its not bias like it is when I try to ban 'Rush' :D
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 18:48 (seven years ago) link
Oh yeah nothing by The Who I guess
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 18:50 (seven years ago) link
what about just disqualifying all Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame recipients?
― brimstead, Saturday, 10 September 2016 18:50 (seven years ago) link
No way will The Zombies be banned though, that's obscure enough to stay
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 18:51 (seven years ago) link
haha isnt everyone in the HOF by now?
Im not sure stirmonster is THAT militant
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 18:52 (seven years ago) link
heh.. just a thought. you'd still have plenty of great weirdos like Monks/13th floor elevators/red krayola etc.
― brimstead, Saturday, 10 September 2016 18:54 (seven years ago) link
I'd like to think everyone would vote for those anyway within the spirit of the poll.
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 18:55 (seven years ago) link
I think the best place to start is by deciding on which genres to allow in keeping with previous polls (AKA 1970-1979 WTF - The Hard 'n' Heavy 'n' Loud + Krautrock, Arty, Noisy, Weird, Funky, Punky Shit - Albums Poll!) before eliminating individual acts within that.
Anything 'heavy' , 'punky' 'noisy' 'weird' 'Funk/soul', 'jazz', 'experimental' 'psychedelic' , 'prog'
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 19:03 (seven years ago) link
Not trying to naysay but I think your 70s poll was p much perfect and any new decade polls will only serve to tarnish your legacy as a poster
― Drugs A. Money, Saturday, 10 September 2016 19:12 (seven years ago) link
lol 'legacy'
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 19:13 (seven years ago) link
btw there would be a tracks poll so we wouldnt be so militant in that. Plus a tracks poll should be great for having lots of garage rock in it!
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 19:18 (seven years ago) link
Looking forward to the poll. How are you going to handle Brill Building/girl group/Atlantic soul/Nuggets that most people know from comps and greatest hit collections that came out after the 60s?
― that's not my post, Saturday, 10 September 2016 20:59 (seven years ago) link
fuck knows, lol. We can worry about that in 6 months when the poll happens I guess.
Anything soul or jazz will count. Garage rock will definitely count.
Most of the girl groups were more singles based right? That would make for an awesome tracks poll for sure.
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 21:09 (seven years ago) link
May even try persuade stirmonster to not veto anything for the tracks poll and just let everything in.
I'm guessing there are hundreds of great 60s R&B albums, I don't know what they are, though, the received wisdom re: albums being only good after Marvin/Stevie "rebelled" against their labels is pretty stupid sounding, imo.
― brimstead, Saturday, 10 September 2016 21:15 (seven years ago) link
labels
meters, bar-kays, booket t & the m's for starters
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 21:18 (seven years ago) link
hot buttered soul was the 60s, sly and the family stone - stand, otis redding
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 21:29 (seven years ago) link
Nerry Gordy of Motown wasnt big on albums though, its true
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 21:37 (seven years ago) link
I'm thinking more early 60a, it's whole undiscovered territory for me personally. I just don't buy the whole "albums sucked until the Beatles put some thought in them" crap.
And damn, I know there must be tons of amazing blues full lengths from the 1960s made by old ass dudes..
― brimstead, Saturday, 10 September 2016 21:44 (seven years ago) link
Hot Buttered Soul is so great. I hope Isaac Hayes got some sort of congressional/presidential medal before he died
― brimstead, Saturday, 10 September 2016 21:46 (seven years ago) link
Jazz albums were fantastic since the 50s so its bullshit about albums sucked until Rubber Soul as put about by some people
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 21:48 (seven years ago) link
seems like a decent place to start
http://tinyurl.com/60s-Soul-albums-RYM
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 21:49 (seven years ago) link
I suppose I'm really thinking about just "pop" music.. Jazz and classical have always ruled and will always rule inna long form style. Beatles albums before rubber soul still get massive plaudits whereas Motown/r&b of the same time get the whole "singles plus filler" rep.
― brimstead, Saturday, 10 September 2016 22:02 (seven years ago) link
pop critics are just as snobby as rock critics when you get down to it.
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 22:53 (seven years ago) link
how many times have you been asked what is your fave bands/album/drummer/etc and you get the reply "oh but that's jazz" as if it shouldnt count
― Cosmic Slop, Saturday, 10 September 2016 22:54 (seven years ago) link
Should these be barred from nominations?They never win polls but are always in top 20s
― Cosmic Slop, Sunday, 11 September 2016 00:30 (seven years ago) link
they are wonderful albums
― riding a display name through (brimstead), Sunday, 11 September 2016 00:38 (seven years ago) link
they are, but so are the others people want excluded as they are always in the top 20s
― Cosmic Slop, Sunday, 11 September 2016 00:40 (seven years ago) link