Second Banana Syndrome: Members of a group that would have been the main attraction had s/he not had the misfortune of being in a group with a bonafide genius, visionary and / or natural-born star

you have to wonder if The Who would have given a bit more effort to some of his songs that they could have been a bit more popular.

Hendrix said that "Boris the Spider" was his favorite Who song. He may or may not have been trying to get a dig in at Townshend ("You know what my favorite Who song is? The one you didn't write!"), but that song was pretty much the heaviest thing anyone had done up to that point.

I don't know if "Heaven and Hell" could've been a hit, as it had so much solo space. But as a live piece, it showed that Entwistle understood as much as (or more than) anyone else in the Who what made them great. His solo recording of it, on Smash Your Head Against the Wall, was half the tempo and not particularly hit-seeming (though it's not without its charm).

I don't think Entwistle would have been big as a lead singer as he really wasn't as distinctive as Daltrey or Townsend and his solo records he didn't have the rest of The Who to back him up either.

His first solo tour, in 1975, lost $75,000. In the late '90s, he went out-of-pocket to keep his band on the road pretty much until he died. He just wanted to play Who songs (and some of his solo songs) live, and didn't care how much debt he went into (which was massive -- to settle his UK tax after he died, his son had to auction John's house along with his various collections of guitars, stuffed fish, medieval armor, and stage clothes).

MC Ren did in fact the group NWA through what many consider their best overall album without Ice Cube

carry the group

xxxxxxxp - Does anyone - bar Eno and Ferry of course - really think that Stranded is a better album than For Your Pleasure though, *all* things considered? I always felt Eno's professed preference for Stranded can be read in a lot of different ways. Plenty of musicians can't stand to listen to albums they've worked hard on after the fact. It also strikes me as a typically generous and placatory thing for him to say. And what kind of dobber would play the, 'The only two good albums Roxy did were the two I appeared on' card anyway? I like most of Roxy's post-Eno catalogue, genuinely (including Stranded), it's just that it all pales compared to Warm Jets, Tiger Mountain, Another Green World, Apollo, Ambient 4 etc. (and that's before we get to the collaborations)... for me at least. He sure went on to put those little synthesizer whoops to good use. Roxy without Ferry is unthinkable, Roxy without Eno, obviously not but it still doesn't really feel like Bry massively outshone Bri to any great degree or put any kind of crimp in him starting and ending the 70s as an incredibly important *and* still relatively popular musician.

xp You mean Efil4zaggin?? I think of the three MCs on that record -- Dre, Eazy, and Ren -- Ren is still the weakest (and Dre is no one's idea of a great MC). Not to say he isn't an important member of the group, it's just difficult to imagine anyone being all "Ren really killed it on 'Approach To Danger.'" He's functional, but not great imo. See also: Shock Of The Hour, Kizz My Black Azz, etc.

xp i remember sometime in the 90s ferry saying (in mojo iirc) that he considered for your pleasure their best album, that it was the "most complete" or something like that.

Wimmels Ren wrote the rhymes for all three on that record

Xp

Wimmels Ren wrote the rhymes for all three on that record

Xp

― Οὖτις, Monday, September 5, 2016 5:09 PM (one minute ago)

Nah, The DOC was the chief ghostwriter on EFIL4ZIGGAN

Ah couldnt recall if DOC was still around at that pt

nat adderley (or zawinul) probably a better example than cannonball

His first solo tour, in 1975, lost $75,000.

i saw that show! calderone concert hall. the internet tells me it was 3/26/75. there was, like, no one there. it was earthshakingly loud, is about all i remember.

You got to think The Who perhaps had other plans eventually for "Heaven and Hell" as they opened with it live for a couple years and it didn't end up on the original Live at Leeds. Never know if "Heaven and Hell" and "Naked Eye" would have been put out as a 2LP version of Live at Leeds in 1970 at the time they would have become classic rock nuggets like "Young Man Blues".

Another angle to take on this threads question would be to look at bands that lost a member to death that took a perhaps a different pathway because of their loss. I'd think Metallica's story would be quite a bit different if Cliff Burton didn't die in the wreck, if nothing else, there probably would have been bass on And Justice for All. I'd think Terry Kath's death probably took out the last of the rock guitar out of Chicago's music and left the mike for Peter Cetera to become the primary lead singer.

I'm sure getting the short shrift from guitarists in Sabbath and Rainbow definitely was the reason Ronnie James Dio named his band after himself...after all kinda hard to get fired from the band when it's named after you. And after Dio had success, he really did not let the sidemen share the cash and/or credit according to what I have read. Ozzy was even more mercenary in his solo career, which according to some started as a band and evolved to the singer's name prominent once the record came out. Same time period and David Coverdale probably needs to thank his bank book that he did the two albums with John Sykes, even though he fired him before touring the second album came out when he started to sell out stadiums. I'm sure this is of the same angst from earlier dealings with Blackmore etc.

But guitarist Jimmy Nolen seems the least well-known, despite creating a new language for the electric guitar, starting with "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag.
n

--Nolen was with JB for only five years and died in 1983. Most Brown fans know him, but probably lower profile than Clyde or Fred or Maceo in the greater world. Shoulda been at least as big a solo star as Little Beaver...

Wimmels Ren wrote the rhymes for all three on that record

Xp

― Οὖτις, Monday, September 5, 2016 5:09 PM (one minute ago)

Nah, The DOC was the chief ghostwriter on EFIL4ZIGGAN

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, September 5, 2016 8:13 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post P

Didn't know this!

Ren and DOC always shared writing for Dre it's easy to tell who wrote what

In any case disagree strongly to me Efil is Ren's record, AND I think his stuff like If it Ain't Ruff is way undervalued on Compton

Also Shockm of the Hour is the super great

Godamnit this sucks I can't even believe someone would say Ren is bad

No one's saying that! But there's no way he could have carried a group any more than PMD or Sen Dog could have (ok that last one was a cheap shot)

And I really like Efil4zaggin, and want to go back to it now and try to figure out what Dre verses were written by DOC and which were written by Ren. I'm assuming DOC was still ghostwriting for Dre on The Chronic, since he appears on that album (which makes the "like my nigga DOC: No One Can Do It Better" line pretty funny, if DOC wrote it about himself)

i saw that show! calderone concert hall. the internet tells me it was 3/26/75. there was, like, no one there. it was earthshakingly loud, is about all i remember.

― Thus Sang Freud, Monday, September 5, 2016 8:37 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ha, no way! From what I've read, the tour was a mix of empty headlining venues and arena slots opening for Humble Pie. Also, the guitarist in Entwistle's band imitated Townshend's stage moves, upstaging John in his own band.