The ILM Essential Reading Thread

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a feeling that the music is actually important, not just a vehicle for your ego

This is an interesting distinction. How is importance defined?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:28 (nineteen years ago) link

i could say alot more but it'll piss people off and i don't want to do tha, plus i'm derailing this thread and i don't want to do that, either. guess i was just interested to see someone saying something was essential, then realising they'd broken an unspoken ilm rule, could be accused of being *canonical* and having to backtrack. forget it.

stelfox, Tuesday, 7 September 2004 15:04 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't really think that having a canon and being in favour of canons is the same thing.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 15:07 (nineteen years ago) link

stelfox: can't speak for others, but i'm more interested in personal crit-view formation, like i said (see first line of question).

(you can do penance by suggesting books on reggae or dancehall or some jamaican music axis, which i would v. much appreciate since every time you post to a dancehall thread i get out my notebook).

also does anybody know what happened to the archives of Addicted To Noise? can we bully Da Capo into publishing them?

Dave M. (rotten03), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 15:10 (nineteen years ago) link

as in, of course in any community there's gonna be stuff that is loved by many, thus canons are established. And since a lot of ppl on ILM love, say, Girls Aloud or Dexy's Midnight Runners, defense of those groups will be more strong than of others where opinion is more split, and as a consequence ppl who dislike 'em will feel less inclined to say so, because arguing against tons of ppl by yourself is sort of an acquired taste. The aspect of canonisation that some ILM headz hate though, I think, is the idea that anyone who dislikes whatever is being canonised is objectively WRONG. And I don't think that most Girls Aloud or Dexy's supporters on here would really believe that, even though in practice it might look that way.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 15:22 (nineteen years ago) link

though you know it's always hard to tell when canonisation is done jokingly and when it's actual bullying, and that goes for represenatives of the "oficial" Rock canon as much as it does for ILMers (ts "if you dislike (x), you hate Rock & Roll!" vs "if you dislike (x), you hate fun!"

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 15:29 (nineteen years ago) link

(uhm, err, "Where Did Our Love Go?" is a really good book.)

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 15:30 (nineteen years ago) link

my favorite Tom piece is very short, but instantly burned itself on my brain when first i read it. now i can't totally hate on Phil Collins, though.

Dave M. (rotten03), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 15:35 (nineteen years ago) link

books by the late Robert Palmer (who wrote for the NY Times, not the singer)

I think there's another thread where someone mentioned reggae and dancehall books...

steve-k, Tuesday, 7 September 2004 15:50 (nineteen years ago) link

wake the town and tell the people by norman c stoltzoff is okay if a bit dry, bass culture by lloyd bradley is pretty decent, too. incidentally, i'm trying to get a book deal together, more or less as we speak. for weight of info you really can't fault steve barrow's rough guide to reggae, but there's precious little real critical writing abt dancehall. dunno why - there's a lot of material to work with.

stelfox, Tuesday, 7 September 2004 15:51 (nineteen years ago) link

freaky trigger I love and loved: 'arthur russell', the strokes articles ('is this it?', 'you have three minutes to amaze me'), 'tiffany', 'are you going?', 'he said trust me...', 'I remember blind joe death', 'passion victims', 'ten songs which were not written by they might be giants...', 'one beat', 'freak like we', 'southern hummingbird'. ok.

cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 16:51 (nineteen years ago) link

"And since a lot of ppl on ILM
love, say, Girls Aloud or Dexy's Midnight Runners"

I had no idea this was true. I'll be leaving now. hahaha! Just kidding. I don't even know what girls aloud is. maybe i love them too. and i did own the 45 of come on eileen when i was a kid.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 16:59 (nineteen years ago) link

Girls Aloud are the lastest crap pop group it's OK for hipsters to claim they like

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 17:00 (nineteen years ago) link

i've never heard sugababes either. do they even release sugababes in the u.s.? i did like the t.a.t.u. album of course. and i am a hipster. so i might like this stuff.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 17:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Best writing on this thread: "...arguing against tons of ppl by yourself is sort of an acquired taste."

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 17:51 (nineteen years ago) link

Haha

I should mention that Kelefa Sennah (sp.) piece on Jay-Z that's in De Capo's best of 2002.

djdee2005, Tuesday, 7 September 2004 18:03 (nineteen years ago) link

scott: Sugababes have a song on the Love Actually soundtrack that i heard a lot here, called "Too Lost In You". someone needs to do a Rough Guide To Girls Aloud, because i feel like checking them out.

and dee you're right, but the Elizabeth Mendez-Berry piece on Jay 'Classic Material' just !KILLS!, as does that entire book.

Dave M. (rotten03), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 23:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Classic Material is pretty great.

djdee2005, Wednesday, 8 September 2004 00:03 (nineteen years ago) link

I have nothing to add off the top of my head, but great thread, thanks for the tips everyone.

artdamages (artdamages), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 20:35 (nineteen years ago) link

My reviews of 3DO's Army Men games are required reading.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 20:38 (nineteen years ago) link

Here's Chuck's Gladys Knight & the Pips Rule (which is his way of restating Meltzer's "The rock 'n' roll experience must combine both the awesome and the trivial in order for either facet to be potent"):

In "Midnight Train to Georgia," which everybody I've ever met acknowledges as a great record, the frivolousness of the Pips doing their train-whistle ooo-woos (especially if you're watching it on TV and they're gesturing and spinning around in unison at the same time) is what keeps Gladys's soul singing down-to-earth. Without the Pips, Gladys would be merely "intense" - not catchy enough, therefore boring, therefore not intense at all, really. Calling music "intense" or "emotional" or "soulful" is usually a euphemism for "it seems like something I'm supposed to like." It's fairly obvious that the Pips alone would be an ignorable proposition; my point is that Gladys alone would be just as ignorable. And, in fact, the problem with most soul music is that it's all-Gladys/no-Pips: e.g., '60s Aretha Franklin subscribed to the fallacy that by removing shlockish prettiness from music (Dionne Warwick's "I Say A Little Prayer," say) you improve it, when really you just make it more reverent....

Then again, since rock'n'roll is a leisure time activity, there are inevitably people who act like music should be all Pips/no-Gladys. But that wouldn't work, either, since Gladysness is where music's tragedy comes from. As often as not, I need moroseness or violence in my disco. My sense of humor's fine, but the trash-aesthetic concept of forced insignificance (where ideas and passion and audacity are shrugged off as "pretentious") isn't fun - it's lazy.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 22:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Best writing on this thread: "...arguing against tons of ppl by yourself is sort of an acquired taste."

I was gonna say "because no one enjoys arguing against tons of ppl by yourself" and then I realised oh wait, some ppl *do* enjoy that and sometimes I do, too, but most of the time most ppl don't.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 23:08 (nineteen years ago) link

five years pass...

I've been reading Steve Almond's Rock and Roll Will Save Your Life. Enjoying it so far, and it seems to be way up ILM's alley (a book about being an obsessive music fan / sometimes professional music critic).

Mordy, Sunday, 25 April 2010 23:44 (thirteen years ago) link

Criticism of Criticism

ksh, Monday, 26 April 2010 00:06 (thirteen years ago) link


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