21st Century Feminists Suck

Perhaps there should be a separate thread for this issue, though.

I did not and have never said that domestic abuse wasn't a widespread problem. I said that domestic abuse is not socially acceptable. You say it is, largely because it exists. For evidence of this, you are offering the words of people who have committed domestic abuse as proof that people find it to be socially acceptable. I'm sorry, that's fucking stupid. Are you expecting these guys to break down and admit that they are wrong so that they can open themselves up to full prosecution? Surely I'm not the only one who thinks that is a dangerously naive view of how people who contravene socially accepted norms behave?

Painting aggressors as victims: Classic or Idiotic?

(I'm in London and you're in Boston: maybe the situation is better there.)(Also, however nasty and ignored domestic violence is, those quotes at the start of all this are funny and stupid, and not to do with domestic violence at all. Had the title not tried to turn this into a general dismissal of modern feminists, I'd have been quite happy with the thread maintaining that tone.)

Who's putting words in your mouth?

I did not and have never said that domestic abuse wasn't a widespread problem. I said that domestic abuse is not socially acceptable. You say it is, largely because it exists. For evidence of this, you are offering the words of people who have committed domestic abuse as proof that people find it to be socially acceptable. I'm sorry, that's fucking stupid. Are you expecting these guys to break down and admit that they are wrong so that they can open themselves up to full prosecution? Surely I'm not the only one who thinks that is a dangerously naive view of how people who contravene socially accepted norms behave?

That is so not what I've been writing, at all. Martin's posts are pretty close to the point that I thought I was making. I certainly wasn't "offering the words of people who have committed domestic abuse" in anything I wrote, and to state that is just as much "putting words in my mouth" as you claim has happened to you.

Painting aggressors as victims: Classic or Idiotic?

Uh, that's not what I did, at all.

oh yeah a cursory glance at any cultural artifact SCREAMS that, right. excuse me while i go fix my bikini and get into a mud-wrestling match, gotta prove my worth somehow!

You could make the case that men don't have the right to dress up in a bikini and mud wrestle...at least not if the want the right to not get the shit kicked out of them.

I, for one, thought that the "we" Andrew was referring to was the ILX community, not the entire global society, so I didn't have a problem with his statement because I don't think anyone who regularly posts to this board thinks that women are inferior to men.

And moreover that overreacting to academic feminist rhetoric is the biggest most boring DUD of all time with the possible exception of the songtitle "Don't Bomb When You Are the Bomb" which exists on its own rarefied cloud of dudness

Dan I never made this claim. I claimed that it's socially acceptible because it exists, not because of anything its perpetrators or victims claim.

What about "it's all about oil"?

"I would assume that one of the reasons I've see anti-domestic violence ads in public transit are because some men might not know it's a crime. I.e. it's 'acceptible' to them."

I'm not certain that "socially acceptable" is neccesarily the correct term (if only because it is loaded with all sorts of nasty moral connotations), but there certainly is a wide-spread societal acceptance of the idea that domestic violence or rape is a male crime perpetrated against female victims, despite the fact that this is empirically false. I'm not sure if that's what you meant though.

I agree. This is the same question that is at stake when people bring up the issue of censorship and so-called hate speech legislation.

And moreover that overreacting to academic feminist rhetoric is the biggest most boring DUD of all time with the possible exception of the songtitle "Don't Bomb When You Are the Bomb" which exists on its own rarefied cloud of dudness

Nooooo!!!!!! Don't you dare diss Blur!!! :)

Martin is totally OTM- this thread wouldn't have been so bad if Andrew had just titled it "the gender studies class my gf's attending sucks" (not that everyone would have agreed with him, mind you, but the examples he quotes in that first post are worthy of dissertation, at least.)

You've not been on ILM much, have you? :)

Q1: Would someone go around bragging about beating their wife?
Q2: Would someone go around bragging about beating someone in a fight?

But do they swallow?

*runs away to bed*

No, that's an urban legend.

> RESUME SANCTIMONIOUS_GRANDSTANDING.BAS
> OK