A Last Time For Everything

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (12 of them)
Holy shit! This is an awesome post.

skye, Sunday, 2 April 2006 01:34 (eighteen years ago) link

(7) Trevor and the guard have different ideas about "property rights." What
do they believe?

Trevor's view seems to be one of "I'm chairman, I own
you. You have no rights, why would you have any property rights?" Trevor
wants complete control, he wants absolute power. Paying rights would be
admitting he didnt have it...

Okay, beautiful. But please bear in mind that Trevor could respond that he'd only taken exception to the very idea of "property rights" being applied to the individual whether s/he ba a copy or not: What of The Divine Rights Of Man? What of the Sanctity of the Indiviual?? How dare this tramp shuffle in here trying to cheapen the Value of Life in such a cynical way!!

(At least this would have made for some pretty good set-up, given the subsequent scenes to follow.)

Mark Mars, Sunday, 2 April 2006 01:53 (eighteen years ago) link

Here's the rest of the discussion.

(48) Aeon accuses Scafandra of screwing up her plans. What are Aeon's plans
at this point?

DRN: She kind of naively believes that Aeon2 will just read the note she
sends and just go with out her and she will just go on and see what develops
between Trevor. At this point she is obviously modifying the original plan.

SRM: The moment Aeon writes the note, the original plan is modified: now
Aeon will stay with Trevor while Aeon2 does what Aeon originally would have
done had she not been duplicated. How is Scafandra supposed to know this?
She doesn't even know Aeon's been duplicated.

(49) Aeon2 reads the note from Aeon, but she still waits for Aeon, and she
laughs in contempt when Scafandra dies. Does Aeon2 realize something about
Aeon that she herself doesn't?

DRN: Yes, she knows Aeon has changed even though she thought she wouldn't
she knows Aeon has fallen for Trevor that Aeon is backing out on the plan.
Aeon2 even knows that Aeon probably will not even let her self know that she
has changed.

OY: Yes, in a way. They both have the same mind (although the last several
hours have been different, they both had the same plan). The plan was, as
Aeon 2 says later "to make Trevor hurt." The two are always in their
love/hate relationship. In a way, it was an intended strategy to show Trevor
how wrong he was, but in the process, Aeon became aware of Trevor's human
side...which seems to be why he through out the vial with Aeon's genetic
information, and cries for the real Aeon and allows the copy to go. He can
never have with the copy what he had with the original.

SRM: Aeon2's laugh of disgust at Scafandra's death is, though I hate to
admit it, hilarious. This is Darwinism: Scafandra put her in a survival
situation and she survived it; Aeon2 put Scafandra in the same and she
couldn't. "Humph!" indeed. Further, Aeon2, now probably remembering the
missing vial from the lab, postulates that Aeon has allowed herself to fall
for Trevor. If Aeon2 stays put, she knows she'll eventually be captured. So
by staying put she puts faith in Aeon that Aeon hasn't changed enough not to
care what happens to Aeon2.

(50) The original Aeon is still in the garden, and the guards blast her
facefirst into a rosebush, which is how Trevor finds her. Aeon finds out
that Trevor wanted to kill Aeon2, but Aeon protests that "It's because she's
out there that I'm here with you!" Are they on different wavelengths? What
are they each thinking?

DRN: Trevor really had not thought about this. He just wants Aeon2 out of
the way he is afraid she might come around and muck up their relationship.
Aeon on the other hand wants Aeon2 out there she has to know that in a very
real sense part of her is still out there and doing what she should be doing
unchanged by the events she has gone through.

(51) Aeon sees in the surveillance tape that Aeon2 is waiting for her. When
they meet, Aeon says of Trevor that she's "not finished with him yet." But
Aeon2 says, "The stars in your eyes--they're stolen!" Aeon: "Things have
changed." Aeon2: "Trevor?" Aeon nods. What's happening in this interchange?

DRN: Aeon realizes what Aeon2 already knows she has changed. Look at them
they do not even look like the same women (Aeon has adopted conventional
clothes a big baggy sweater and pants with long straight hair and before her
old self) and they are not at all the same. Aeon seems to become some what
ashamed she knows Aeon2 is right and that is killing her. She does not want
to admit that she loves Trevor but she can not lie to herself (who also
happens to be Aeon2). Aeon finally realizes she has changed, too much for
her own good.

SRM: This is one of the only scenes in the series in which Aeon's face is
softly drawn, and for good reason: she has become soft, in the sense that
she's allowed her desires to take over. She wanted to be able to indulge her
desires while having her ethics upheld by her duplicate, but she's not quite
to the point of being able to give all that up, and Aeon2 certainly isn't
about to allow that. Aeon2's noticing the lack of stars in Aeon's eyes tells
us that this is not simply a matter of choice: Aeon has changed for the
worse according to Aeon2, and it will be up to Aeon to see if she agrees.

(52) In perhaps the determining moment, Aeon and Aeon2 face off. What is
decided here?
Aeon: [pointing that cigarette gun] There are things you don't know.
Aeon2: I know that you won't kill me.
Aeon: You kill me, that's the plan.
Aeon2: Yes, yours to begin with, to make him hurt!
Aeon2: Take a stand!!
Aeon2: Okay, pretty one.
Aeon: Watch that.

DRN: Aeon2 is making Aeon face up to the fact that she has more or less sold
herself out. She has fallen to hard for Trevor and is trying to back out of
it and frankly it pisses Aeon2 off. Aeon2 tries to remind her of what she
should do but Aeon is not having it so Aeon2 decides that if Aeon will not
act she will act and force Aeon to do something. Two things are important to
note here, the lesser is the fact that Aeon2 calls Aeon "pretty one." Aeon
obviously takes offense to this because she is not pretty, well just pretty,
she is strong she is wild she is uncontrollable not just pretty which
trivilizes her. Aeon2 uses this not only to antagonize Aeon but to get her
to realize what is going on. The second thing is that this where Aeon2
decides to make the boarder run and thus force Aeon to follow her in. She
knows Aeon will follow her in because after all they are the same person.

SRM: Aeon has knowledge of what it means to love Trevor, while Aeon2 has the
knowledge of what it means to keep Trevor in check, to do her duty to
Monica. Which will win out? And yes, Aeon2 only gets Aeon's full attention
by pointing out her appearance--the soft Aeon who has lost her edge.

(53) Aeon2 runs into the gun area, and Aeon screams, "NO!!" What makes Aeon
follow Aeon2? What makes Aeon2 run in the first place?

DRN: see 52. The important thing is that Aeon runs in after Aeon2. Aeon
realizes that she must follow her in and that she must not come out. She
recommits herself to the plan in that one instant. She knows she is not
coming out but she knows it is more important that Aeon2 the more pure, if
you will, version of herself must be the one to survive. Watch as they run
Aeon is just the shell of all she used to be the run illustrates it
beautifully. Aeon2 runs with no emotion no fear she just does it Aeon runs
with eyes and mouth wide open you can almost here her heart pounding you
know this is not the old Aeon.

OY: As Aeon2 reminded Aeon, the plan's intent was to teach Trevor a lesson.
Aeon fell in love with Trevor and ended up hesitant about it. What I think
is that Aeon2 tricked Aeon into fulfilling the plan by running off, a sort
of "farewell, I hope you're happy with him. You'll never be free again.
Because she and Trevor would have to be together." Aeon follows Aeon2
because she cannot abandon her principles. When she stands up and allows the
turrets to kill her, she completes the plan to make Trevor regret his
decisions. Now he can never have her again.

SRM: At this moment Aeon is not sure what to do. Her simple denial of
watching Aeon2 run away is not enough evidence for her to convert back to
the plan. Aeon2 knows that one of them will win out, but ultimately she's
not sure either. Both don't know, and one of them will have to decide. As it
turns out, as Logan points out, Aeon runs without her athletic ability, and
she even gazes in admiration while watching Aeon2 run. In the deciding
moment she turns to look at Trevor and asks herself who does she love more:
herself, or Trevor? Recall the kiss in the pool. Who does she really love?

(54) Trevor orders Turret 12 shut down. What does this tell us about what
Trevor feels?

DRN: Aeon and Trevor have seemed to overstep the bounds of their
relationship and have fallen in love. Trevor loves Aeon his feelings run
deeper than even he might admit. He is trying desperately to save the life
of his lover but to no use.

OY: As Trevor seems more humane in this episode, he doesn't want the real
Aeon to get killed. As he told her, she's the real one. The copy is
expendable, but the guards who fire the guns do not know this. He feels
nothing for the copy, but the real Aeon cares for him, while she still
refuses to let him win. In a way, he knows that he can't win this time.

(55) Aeon, watching Aeon2 run expertly, decides to let herself get gunned
down. Why?

DRN: see 53 She knows it is for the best. She does it to make up for falling
for Trevor she allowed herself to be changed in ways that she did not want
and she, through this final fatal, act is trying to make up for it.

SRM: Aeon ultimately decides that she loves herself more than she loves
Trevor. She sees herself as she used to be, and she knows that Aeon must go
on living. And if that Aeon is to exist, her original plan must have been
right; her doubts have been unfounded. So in an unintentionally brutal twist
of events, she allows herself to be killed before his eyes.

(56) Trevor lets Aeon2 go, with tears in his eyes for the dead Aeon. Why?

DRN: see 54. He lets Aeon2 go to restore things to balance he could not
stand to loose both his lover and his greatest enemy in one day. He still
need Aeon, even in the guise of Aeon2. Everything is kind of back to normal.
Or is? Did Aeon's plan work? To some extant she succeeded but to what
degree? It would be sheer speculation to guess how much she hurt Trevor but
we do know that she hurt Trevor.

OY: Because he and the real Aeon had something special. The copy is just
like Aeon before the whole episode. Either he figures it makes no difference
whether the copy lives or not, or subconsciously he wants to try again with
the copy. I don't believe the latter suggestion, though.

SRM: Love, or infatuation, or obsession--whatever you call it, it got ahold
of Trevor, which is why he pronounces his letting Aeon go with such pain and
sorrow in his voice. Remember that Trevor's had many opportunities to kill
Aeon before but has not; the bond between them is too strong.

(57) The ultimate question for this episode: is Aeon2 really closer to the
original Aeon? And isn't it Aeon, the one that falls for Trevor, that's as
far away from the Aeon Flux we know? By going through this process, Aeon has
learned something about herself, but what? What has Trevor learned? What
have they learned about each other? Perhaps now is a good time to think
about why this is "A Last Time For Everything."

OY: Aeon2 is closer to the Aeon we know from the previous episodes. But the
Real Aeon that is gunned down also represents the Aeon we know. Allowing
herself to be killed in order to make Trevor hurt is something that we know
she would do. She is a survivor, but she dies so many times that it doesn't
matter. Seriously, it shows how far she will go to complete her objective.
What Aeon learns about herself is how much she could really care for Trevor.
Before it seemed to me more like they were toying with each other, Trevor
wanted her, but Aeon wouldn't allow it...not the way he wanted (probably
another reason she let herself die). Trevor seems to learn how to admit he
was wrong. Though not directly stated, allowing the copy to escape, he
almost says "you made your point Aeon." That's how I see it. "A Last Time
For Everything," I suspect is a metaphor for how Trevor and Aeon had one
last day together, one last chance to see how they really feel for each
other, Scafandra sees one last time what Aeon really is (first she suspected
that Aeon was in with Trevor, but then when she gets killed realizes that
maybe she really was tricked by Aeon), Aeon before she gets killed sees one
last time how far she'll go for what she believes is right.

HD: I think it was all about divergence of personality. To begin with A1 and
A2 are so alike they almost know what each other are thinking. By the end
they are having an argument. By allowing herself to die Aeon1 is unifying
herself once more. A1 has a choice to continue life with Trevor and the only
Aeon. She decides that A2 is more authentic than herself and if anybody
should die it's her. The clone is more her than she is.

DRN: The question is a lot harder to answer than it appears. Obviously Aeon2
is closer to the Aeon Flux that the viewer has come to be familiar with but
what about Aeon. Just because she has changed does that make her less Aeon
Flux than before? Well actually yes it does. The question seems to ask "Does
Aeon some how receive redemption in the light of her own self sacrifice at
the end of the episode?" Phrased like that the answer to the question would
seem to be yes. But the fact that she did change by circumstances she could
not control lingers. Did Aeon loose herself because she could not prevent
herself from falling for Trevor? and if so does her action at the end
episode really make her herself again.
Aeon allows herself to be killed for herself (Aeon2). This act would seem to
suggest that she would have regained some of herself. But would the Aeon
Flux we know really commit such a selfless act? Probably not Aeon as she
claims takes no sides so it does not appear that she would die for anyone.
But we are not just talking about anyone are we? We are talking about
herself. An interesting question: Would you die so your exact duplicate
could live? It is almost an extreme example of father dieing for his son or,
a better example, a mother dying in childbirth for her child. Aeon is so
extreme, such an individualist to an impossible degree that she would not
even die for herself. But the fact remains that she did in fact die for
herself. Why? The answer is simply she was already dead. In giving herself
to Trevor, falling in love with him, she has destroyed herself. She had
placed herself in a situation were she could no longer be an individual she
was no a part of a larger whole, something the real Aeon could never be, as
illustrated through her numerous relationships, her strange relation to
Trevor (before this episode) and her fuzzy alliance to neither Bregna nor
Monica. She died rather because she was already dead. She had the chance to
have all her sins forgiven and walk away clean to relive her life in the
guise of Aeon2 so she did it and died.
Just to end quickly the only thing that Trevor and Aeon have learned from
all this is that they can not overstep the bounds of their odd relationship
or they will destroy themselves, it just happened to be fatal in Aeon's
case. To say they have learned they can love each other would be to
trivilize this entire episode. What they have learned is they share a
delicate relationship that is beneficial both only if they leave it as it

SRM: I had a group of students write a paper about how this episode
supported Freud's stability of id, ego, and superego. Aeon gives in to her
id (anything for desire) and allows her duplicate to take over her superego
(anything for morals, ethics). The episode concerns the ego: that logical
part that negotiates between the illogical id and illogical superego. The
ego wins out in the end, for it forces the id and the superego back into
suppression, back where they belonged.
That's a helpful way of looking at this episode. When I first saw it I was
amazed that the ending allowed her duplicate to go on doing her work. That's
a moot point now that I think about it, since the show insists on
non-linearity. Intriguing to me, though, is that the duplicate now knows
what will happen if she allows herself to become too attached to Trevor.
This duplicate, if she were to be featured in an episode (how are we to
know?), would approach relations with Trevor very carefully, would she not?
Aeon's individualism rings as true as can be in this episode: she dies for
herself. Not to do so would mean denying that she is of importance, which of
course can't be valid for Aeon. Relationships are about giving up part of
yourself to the other person, and Aeon could not do that. Trevor couldn't,
either: he wanted Aeon2 dead. Neither of them are giving enough to be able
to sustain a romantic relationship, and now they both know that. But since
the series makes no claims to carrying knowledge over between episodes, we
can't call this episode a learning experience. But we can call it a
meditation on identity, the self, and what at the core of their beings Aeon
and Trevor are willing to do to uphold what they value most.

Peter Chung, Sunday, 2 April 2006 01:57 (eighteen years ago) link

I just fi nished reading that script again. I think I don't even have a copy of that one (I'd better not, because if I indeed dpo I am ill-prepared for the hell I may pay for having in any event withheld it).

Yiy, say I! AyeY!Y!

Mark Mars, Monday, 3 April 2006 03:43 (eighteen years ago) link

(12) If the guns are so good that they need one person to distract while the?other runs, how does Aeon escape after Scafandra betrays her?
KR: Aeon makes it across the border by using her gun and her expert accuracy?to fire at each incoming projectile before it hits her.
DJ: Aeon's just that cool.
DRN: A good point, in episode 3, it stated explicitly that you need two?people to make the boarder run and therefore when Sybil tries it by herself?she fails but were not talking about just anyone now are we are talking?about Aeon Flux she is everything pushed beyond its limits categories like?super secret agent, James Bondish (as it was once said "a bond girl who out?Bonds Bond) even conventional female do not apply to her in some since she?is above, more accurately outside, them and therefore outside such?limitations as running the boarder with another person, or even more?importantly morality. Aeon is not in the conventional sense human she?something a little more, as is perhaps Trevor, and this frees her of some of?the limitations of the label.
SRM: This shows that Aeon does not in fact need Scafandra at all to cross?the border; she can do it herself. Sure, it's safer to do it with two?instead of one, but the argument for Aeon's needing Scafandra breaks down?here.

Oh? But this Border section's permeability (or lack thereof) is still a matter for (possibly suicidal) conjecture on the part of a couple of Monican terrorists taking their chances. This whole gig is an unknown quantity. Now, Flux is pretty good at assessing her situations but even for her this one is critical (as we see). It's Scaphandra who, in any event, appears to have less talent in this regard and even less in ascertaining what others' chances are going to be - or what size consequences she might really incur or just how long "subsequently" can last you, etc.

Besides, they'd both cleared half or more of the run by the time Scaphandra cut to her own chase right out of there, so Aeon was "lucky."

(13) The car seems to be waiting for Scafandra. Did Trevor give her an?assignment to kill Aeon? Or is it her own doing?
DRN: No, i think not because in the interrogation he doesn't even mention?this, admittedly we probably don't see all the interrogation but that is not?important. Obviously Aeon is a little take back by Scafandra taking off but?that isn't enough to justify a betrayal because they obviously had different?agendas because they had planed not to see each other till they needed each?other again. i don't think her intent is to kill Aeon but just to get away?from her as quickly as possible to not arose suspicion from Aeon.
SRM: Because of Scafandra's direct heading for the car, there is obviously?some kind of setup here, but it can't be Trevor's doing since he straps her?down and interrogates her.

Well, no - not for example if the thugs whom she got into the sedan with had been leading her to believe they intended to work some scam there in Bregna (undoubtedly some high-intrigue pork-barrel racket) - only to take her straightway to an interview there with The Chairman himself because say at least one angle on the whole situation had been for Breen Intelligence to ascertain their own penetrabilities by instigating one themselves for express purposes of later exam and analysis?

Mark Mars, Saturday, 8 April 2006 04:36 (eighteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...
Aw, COME ON will somebody GET THAT

Mark Mars, Thursday, 27 April 2006 03:43 (seventeen years ago) link

four years pass...

It's still not clear to me why Aeon goes out of her way to get Scaphandra killed.

Jake Bromberg, Thursday, 24 June 2010 04:23 (thirteen years ago) link

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.