Fleetwood Mac: Classic or Dud

New F.M.: Spaced-out California cokehead popmasters: Classic to almost rival ABBA. 'Fleetwood Mac' is okay, but 'Rumours' and esp. 'Tusk' are utterly brilliant, and the come-back album is underrated. Stevie Nicks = amazing pixie with one strange voice.

"Think About Me" from Tusk and "Never Going Back Again" in addition to most of the hits (especially the ones by Christine and Lindsey) are muchos yummy.

Seriously, was Rumours "ground-breaking?" Please explain. Is this comparison, between Radiohead und Fleety Mac, what you humans call "sarcasm?" Rumours sounds like standard 60s-70s pop production to me. Sure is a good record, though. Tusk was a little wierd...

Or are we saying that Okay, Computer!! isn't groundbreakin? Maybe that's what we're saying. By saying "we" I don't know who I'm referring to. What was the question?

- Daft Punk: which robot is the John Lennon?

- Mingus' 'Ah-hum': the 'Ok Computer' of jazz?

- Orpheus: the Brian Wilson of ancient Greece? Oh and search & destroy his underrated post-Hades phase!

No mention of their godlike rhythm section? Tsk. Lindsey is a god of production and a brilliant fingerpicking guitarist. Mirage and Tango In The Night are often overlooked and really pretty good records, although not quite up to the Rumours/Tusk standard. Forget the stuff post-Lindsey, some of it is alright but not classic in the least. The version of the band that featured none of Stevie/Lindsey/Christine is just embarrassing.

Having recently listened to their Greatest Hits recently, I was quite struck by the fact that my favourite Mac songs are Stevie's. "Sara" is phenomenal.

Classic. Oh yes.

I suppose the Blue Oyster Cult was somewhat gentler than Black Sabbath or AC/DC but this still seems like a bizarre characterization of their music.

This occurred to me tonight, when I was listening to "I'm So Afraid" (which I've decided is my favorite Fleetwood Mac song... see my top 100 singles list). The mid-to-late '70s Fleetwood Mac had this great moody quasi-metal stoner-goth impulse that reared its head every so often. You mostly hear it in the Stevie songs, but Lindsey had it in him too. :-)

You Never Know What Your Missing
Need You Love So Bad
Heavenly
Albatros

---ABut, you can't really compare the early years with their more popular 70s/80s era (which, of course, i don't particularly care for).

Like Genesis!! Geir, I kiss you.

"The Green Manalishi"!

The only AOR album Genesis released during the 70s was "And Then There Were Three". Which was a better album than anything Fleetwood Mac did, so you're right anyway. :-)

Hey what's the one Geir that starts out "Up on the forest road, there's hundreds of cars and they're luxury cars!! Each has got a load of convertible bars, cutlery scars, and superstars!! 'Cause tonite is the night when they sort it out sort it out, because they can't seem to agree on their gerrymandered boundaries? There's Salamander Slim with his whiskey and gin, whiskey and gin...and Big-Assed Rocker Ted, he's touched in the head, touched in the head? 'Cause tonite they gonna sort it out, sort it out, yes they're finding ways to agree on a boundary?" I may have gotten a few words wrong but I'm working from memory here--it's really a good song.

Jim is right: Mirage is totally underrated. I used to love that album.

Is Spiritualised - Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Floating In Space a Rumours for the 90s?

It also works as kind of a moral lesson about the excess. When you're in a rock band, and you get so coked up every night that you start to think that fucking your band members is a good idea, even when they're married to other band members, these are the feelings you end up with.

Classic. Very.

I love the Peter Green era so much. Green is so much better a blues guitarist than Clapton it's not even funny. And I actually sort of like Clapton! He's just such a ripoff artist though, and you never get the sense he really feels any of it, save for Layla. Whereas we know Green was a troubled soul, and it really comes through in his music. Like he really needed to play the blues, maaaan.

But just the whole presentation is great, the hardcore blues covers (with that very good McVie Fleetwood rhythm section), the fabulous Green originals, Jeremy Spencer's sense of humor and SPOT-ON Elmore James rips (though a little definitely goes a long way), Danny Kirwan's shy introspective stuff.

The record that nailed it for me is Shrine '69. I swear it is one of the best live albums ever. It's just really taut and the setlist is great and the playing is flawless. You get the whole show - around 45 minutes - and it's just right. They were the opening band that night, and they just go out and rip through their tunes and it's a fun listen. Peter Green's playing and singing on the version of Little Willie John's "Need Your Love So Bad" is tremendous.

I better stop but of course Then Play On is great as is the BBC Sessions, which has a bunch of things that weren't recorded elsewhere (and a great version of "Rattlesnake Shake").

Oh yeah, Buckingham Nicks era is pretty rad as well.

The worst thing for him is that I would be sort of interested in reading his books, but the writing of his I've read elsewhere has totally put me off.

Anyway, good on ya Kenan for digging that disc.

Also, I was sort of thinking: Isn't it weird that there is like thirtysomething replies to a thread about one of the weirdest (with the coming-and-going-of-different-personnel, the radical sound shifts), longest running, most "IMPORTANT" (certainly best-selling) groups around? Where are all the pop fans? Or is it all too maybe obvious.

Anyway a fascinating band.

Yes hahah well Lindsey B is an androgynous punk god (just check the photos in the Tusk CD booklet - next to the other four he looks like he's wandered in from the Blitz Club). Stevie N is a hippy through and through but only an inadvertent punk goddess, which usually are the best ones.

The freak-out sounds very proto-postpunk to my ears! At least until the more bluesy part toward the end of it. I can imagine JD or The Sound making something similar...

Even in the recording studio they can still write songs
that are fresh and up-lifting, Still years left in them yet.

Only The Kinks are equal to the LIVE! performance
you will see on the Fleetwood Mac - Say You Will World Tour.

ROCK ON... THE Mac

Danny Kirwan's song "Dragonfly" sounds not unlike the music that FM did with Buckingham/Nicks in the mid 70s. That song has that Byrds/Jefferson Airplane folk rock sound, which is something "Rumours" era FM expanded upon.

The compilation was great. Are any of the individual albums or records of the mid period with Bob Welch worth checking out?

not according to the exit polls! someone must have fucked with his ballot.

“strangers in the wind”

ooh yeah i hear it

I have just been watching YouTube videos of her and tearing up. This isn't my generation but is hitting me so hard.

The radio has been playing more Fleetwood Mac than usual today, even heard a couple of deep pre Buckingham/Nicks stuff. The saddest moment in the car came when they played You Make Loving fun, and the placeholder graphic they used was a portrait of the band from the Say You Will era, minus Christine. it was kind of eerie.

https://i.imgur.com/hsWrJFO.jpg

guys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGCV3m22o4o

When she got home I asked my wife what song she wanted to play in her memory, to my surprise the first thing she said was "Honey Hi."

My favourite single Mac recording - the way she sings, and that heartbroken, beautiful final guitar solo, and the way it interacts with Christine's organ. Just the greatest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjEGeDf4p1M

― his cartoon heart expands, then he relaxes by smoking crack (stevie), Wednesday, 30 November 2022 23:16 (yesterday) link

that was my gateway into Mac - I couldn't believe a band at height of their popularity would open an album with such a delicate number. RIP.

It struck me that every lyric of hers that I can think of is about interpersonal relationships, maybe with the exception of "Homeward Bound" on Bare Trees.

when i first got into FM the only pre buckingham-nicks era material i'd heard was the peter green blues rock stuff. i remember being shocked when i first heard "why" and learned that it was from two albums prior to lindsey and stevie joining. to me that song, more than any other from the early albums, shows what the band would become

rip <3

Wow, my Your Missed Hits list is some hot garbage. I think there's a reason these hits were missed.

xp Absolutely. I think Christine's songwriting was pretty much fully developed by the time they made Bare Trees (and even before then she had at least a couple of gems). The most audible difference is what Buckingham brought as a producer. "Everywhere" may be a great example of this - does anyone know how much input Christine had in the production and arrangement? It's her song, but a lot of that sounds like something Buckingham would do to a record. Regardless, it's been pointed out that if you break down the songwriting credits on their hit singles of the Buckingham-Nicks era, Christine has sole or co-writing credit on something like half of them, far more than anyone else. (Stevie would be in second, but with half as many credits.)

xp

ended up in the completely wrong thread, sorry folks

xpost I'm pretty sure, especially by then, that the music/production was largely directed by Buckingham, who no doubt made that a condition of his return. Plus he had his new Fairlight to play with.

Found this:

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/fleetwood-mac-everywhere/

Even when it came to Buckingham taking the reins on her song, McVie had faith in his ability. "It's just sort of a natural leadership. He spends all his time in the studio, and frankly, someone has to do it," she said. "It's not like we all sit around and say, 'Yes, Lindsey, no, Lindsey.' We have input. I could (veto) things he does to my songs, but he is very good at his craft."

Here's McVie's "Mystified" demo, on which Buck share songwriting credit. Sounds like it's mostly there before he got his hands dirty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo5kmOp9gsc

love this one, her in a rocker mode, great chorus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErBLC4GxgRs

Bare Trees is the best album of the Hidden Years imo

i can't call it between bare trees and future games, both excellent

I'd say Mystery to Me, Bob Welch really stepped up for that one album. Danny Kirwan's songwriting contributions in that era are probably the most consistent.

if you can get past the horrible cover, heroes are hard to find has some great tunes

A big drop-off considering that Mystery to Me had the greatest cover in rock history!

xxp Kirwan's guitar was also a great asset. I think that was a significant loss until Buckingham came aboard.

Christine had a pair of excellent tunes, probably the best ones too, on Heroes are Hard to Find.

xp lol yeah

i do like that in the midst of fleetwood mac's catalog there's a very serious song about the Bermuda Triangle.

I think of that as a photocopy of "Hypnotized" - Welch thinking, "my Castañeda song got lots of FM airplay, we need more songs that could double as episodes of In Search Of..."

Christine drew the sleeve to Kiln House, unless Wikipedia is lying to me

wow! i did not know that

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0902/5612/products/fleetwood_mac_kiln_house_vinyl_inside_gatefold_grande.jpg?v=1629610717

Here's a pic of the gatefold: Cover design - Christine McVie

She played some uncredited piano on it as well. In fact, she was on every regular Mac studio album except the first one and the Chicago Jam sets.

That's clearly her backing vocals on Station Man too

that live over and over from 1980 is so fucking good

I've always been struck by how she introduces it in such a crestfallen way. "We haven't played anything from Tusk yet... [notable lack of audience reaction to the mention of what was then FM's white elephant] So we're going to play one for you... [silence continues]". But it's astonishing. That whole live album is excellent, even its downer moments - a Don't Stop, taken from a soundcheck, that is absolutely drained of the studio take's joie de vivre. It's like Lindsey's playing cinema verite with the album, offering a picture of where they were emotionally in 1980 as stark as the drugged-out portraits inside the gatefold.

Great description, stevie

future games is my favorite pre-buckingham/nicks album

Relistening to the pre Buck/Nicks LPs for the first time in ages tonight, that cover of Roadrunner off Penguin bangs. I mean, maybe it's such a great song you can't fuck it up, but it is very much in the pocket.

xp Absolutely. I think Christine's songwriting was pretty much fully developed by the time they made Bare Trees (and even before then she had at least a couple of gems). The most audible difference is what Buckingham brought as a producer.

i agree she already had her songwriting style down, but i’ve also seen both christine and lindsey make reference to the hours they’d spend jamming and writing stuff together. so his contribution wasn’t just production. the guitar keyboard interplay on christine songs post-lindsey joining is the best

I just learned he played guitar on "Got a Hold On Me."

i agree she already had her songwriting style down, but i’ve also seen both christine and lindsey make reference to the hours they’d spend jamming and writing stuff together. so his contribution wasn’t just production. the guitar keyboard interplay on christine songs post-lindsey joining is the best

― flopson, Thursday, December 1, 2022 5:59 PM (thirty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I mentioned in the other thread (lol) how the 2017 album, he said, reminded him how in awe he was over her chops. As far as we know their bond was as two musicians, and they understood each other as far back as "World Turning."

I mean:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbZZEzq94d8

Made me realize that when Stevie Nicks finally dies I will -- after the mockery has passed -- be totally devastated.

Same.

In one of the two Ken Caillat books, he mentions that Buckingham was always helpful when working on McVie songs, without any drama arising.

That's clearly her backing vocals on Station Man too

Listening again to Kiln House this afternoon, it sounds like she's harmonizing on "Mission Bell" too.

The live version of "Tusk" sounds a lot more dire than the studio version, even with the accordion.

I think McVie and Buckingham were creating better material

In the main, maybe, but then there are "Dreams" and (especially) "Landslide," which are peerless.

https://www.discogs.com/master/1352330-Fleetwood-Mac-The-Alternate-Tango-In-The-Night

Worth hearing?

This was a good listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhMmI32LKtY