Cuba: Here we go again?

or the arrival of III?

Like a shameless politician is a new thing?

right. because there's nothing particularly shameless about this administration. and lets give up on the country, the economy, the world, etc.

Why dont we just invade cuba and get it over with. Something to tell the grandkids about.

We also need to pre-empt any red dawn-like scenarios.

Still celebrating crushing Hussein, ain't they? But it will be summat to tell the great grandkids about.

The Associated Press @AP
BREAKING: US officials: US to start talks with Cuba to normalize full diplomatic relations, open embassy.

good idea, this will take two years

Surely this is Obama flipping Putin the finger?

is Putin doing all that much for the Castros these days?

more like Obama wanting to do one more obv positive thing while he's still breathing

Yeah I agree with the latter, the former is probably just a nice bonus.

yeah I think this is more of a bucket list kind of move

http://www.vox.com/2014/12/17/7408067/cuba-deal-obama-embargo-alan-gross

CNN reports that the new rules still won't permit American tourism, but will make it easier to visit for other purposes.

wtf... but good, we won't do our kind of ruination quite yet.

Bob Menendez (D-NJ), such a shit:

"President Obama's actions have vindicated the brutal behavior of the Cuban government," he said in a statement. "There is no equivalence between an international aid worker and convicted spies who were found guilty of conspiracy to commit espionage against our nation. One spy was also convicted of conspiracy to murder for his role in the 1996 tragedy in which the Cuban military shot down two U.S. civilian planes, killing several American citizens. My heart goes out to the American families that lost love ones on that fateful day."

“Trading Mr. Gross for three convicted criminals sets an extremely dangerous precedent," he added. "It invites dictatorial and rogue regimes to use Americans serving overseas as bargaining chips. I fear that today’s actions will put at risk the thousands of Americans that work overseas to support civil society, advocate for access to information, provide humanitarian services, and promote democratic reforms."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/17/bob-menendez-marco-rubio-obama-cuba_n_6340906.html

It frustrates me that whether it's Barbara Lee or Dennis Kucinich not a single Dem can answer the question from Republicans, "But what about human rights abuses?" with "Human rights abuses in China and Vietnam don't trouble us; I see no reason to worry about Cuba's."

Human rights abuses in America don't bother us, so

sit down lindz

https://twitter.com/GrahamBlog/status/545268810815905792

In his statement Obama claimed that Gross was released by the Cubans on "humanitarian grounds" and at least tried to imply that the appeals of Francis had some effect. The three Cuban agents were released in exchange for an unnamed American spy held there, who (if I heard this right) was responsible for nabbing the three agents in the first place.

Americans are pretty stupid about international stuff, but I find it hard for anyone other than the most hardened obama hater to think being nicer to cuba is an awful thing.

turn on FOX News now.

thot fox was the official news source of hardened obama haters worldwide

I need to get back there before Disney

Well, this will surely complicate the GOP's strenuous and sincere attempt to court Hispanics.

how so

he just secured the Cuban vote after 2012's promising first step.

I thought all the angry old cubans were the ones who wanted the embargo in the first place

or are they all dying off

sorry if I'm being obtuse, the intricacies of Cuban-American voting bloc politics sort of mystify me

We've been doing business with the Chinese Communist party for decades now, to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. One must ask oneself, wtf is so special about Cuba that we can't do a dime's worth of business there?

the young ones and those who've benefited from the loosening of remittance limits and travel restrictions in the last five years

our next presidential aspirant, English collapsing:

"My understanding is that the influence that His Holiness had was on the release of Mr. [Alan] Gross, which I've not criticized. As I said, I'm happy that he's with the Cuban people [sic]. I would also ask His Holiness to take up the cause of freedom and democracy, which is critical for a free people — for a people to truly be free," Rubio, a Catholic whose parents immigrated from Cuba to flee the Castro regime, told reporters.

"I think the people of Cuba deserve the same chances to have democracy as the people of Argentina have had, where he comes from; as the people of Italy have, where he now lives. Obviously the Vatican's its own state, but very nearby," the senator and rumored 2016 presidential hopeful continued.

We've been doing business with the Chinese Communist party for decades now, to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. One must ask oneself, wtf is so special about Cuba that we can't do a dime's worth of business there?

The Cuban exile community's once wizardly sway over Congress and the White House? It's not hard.

last sentence of Rubio's is really a beauty

plus, our history with Cuba is more tangled than any country not named England. Jefferson wanted it. Southern Congressman forty years later sought to make a slave state out of it. We got sugar, rum, the best beaches in the Caribbean, baseball players, cigars, Watergate burglars, and George W. Bush out of it.

Shit, we've even normalized relations with the butchers in Myanmar, fer chrissakes.

"...as the people of Italy have, where he now lives. Obviously the Vatican's its own state, but very nearby," the senator and rumored 2016 presidential hopeful continued.

lmao really putting the knife in. who's the writer here? I can't get that quote to come up on google

man, wait til the Pope announces he's moving the Vatican to Pinar del Rio

I hear the beaches are especially beautiful.

I believe it's where I saw a rooster mascot do what looked like a Santeria dance around home plate.

http://www.que.es/archivos/201111/4219565w-640x640x80.jpg

the young ones and those who've benefited from the loosening of remittance limits and travel restrictions in the last five years

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, December 17, 2014

younger cubans really support liberalizing US-Cuban relations? not doubting it so much as observing how behind-the-times i must be.

oh yeah -- the older ones too. The women who clean my grandmother's and take care of her are my mom's age. Most people who came after Helms-Burton support normalizing relations.

plus, our history with Cuba is more tangled than any country not named England. Jefferson wanted it. Southern Congressman forty years later sought to make a slave state out of it. We got sugar, rum, the best beaches in the Caribbean, baseball players, cigars, Watergate burglars, and George W. Bush out of it.

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, December 17, 2014 1:41 PM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's real nice for Canada.

why didn't we recruit a burglar from Canada?

I'm glad I've been to Cuba multiple times before the Starbucks and whatnot. I wish there was a middle ground between people having basic freedoms and not being rampaged by lots of Wal Marts.

Can anyone link to anything genuinely interesting/informative about what Gross was actually doing there and whether there was actually any basis for his arrest?

seeing all this preemptive righteous anticommercialism is nauseating

Shepard Smith, who worked in Miami and Naples for years, is practically trembling with excitement. He also repeated the cliche regarding the definition of insanity -- that's how FOX can claim it's Fair and Balanced.

President Joe Biden on Thursday plans to slap targeted individual sanctions on Cuba regime officials, bucking the progressive voices in his own party who called for an end to the embargo.

Biden’s response to Cuba — which also includes measures to bring increased internet access to the island and calls for more international pressure on the totalitarian government — was outlined Wednesday night in a call with Democratic Cuban-American activists in Miami who had been calling for more action ever since the July 11 uprisings on the island.

But it’s the proposal to extend the targeted sanctions of the Magnitsky Act, originally passed in response to Russian government oppression and then extended to governments such as Venezuela, that has most encouraged activists who want more pressure on Cuba.

“This is huge,” said Sasha Tirador, a top Miami political operative who was briefed on the plans Wednesday night.

“No administration has ever announced that they will hold each individual who violates human rights on the island of Cuba accountable,” she said.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/22/biden-sanctions-cuba-500534

I'm not sure how I'm supposed to respond tbh

🇨🇺 Let Cuba Live! Over 400 politicians, intellectuals, clergy, artists, activists & ex-heads of state call Biden to immediately lift Trump's 243 sanctions on Cuba.
Full page ad in the NYT tomorrow @answercoalition @codepink

Visit https://t.co/jQTKHAcwQ1 to sign the petition. pic.twitter.com/4X068AgqzL

— The People's Forum (@PeoplesForumNYC) July 22, 2021

Like does it actually hurt you to admit people can think outside some either/or narrative presented by political leaders? Or are you just going to continue assuming that Cuban writers and Cuban posters in this thread don’t know or even want what’s best for their nation and family?

― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 bookmarkflaglink

You can make up as many narratives you like but it isn't about narratives. Do you want the current leadership to go, is the question. What happens then? And who is going to get involved in those decisions? Give what we've seen in Bolivia, Brazil, Venezuela in the last few years.

You've not been shy in talking out of arsehole about any of these countries so don't tell what I can or can't say.

Yes the current leadership has to go. Anyone who considers otherwise cares very little for democracy and human rights.

And who is going to get involved in those decisions?

Cubans? Is it hard to imagine that Cubans would be able to build a democracy if given the chance? And sure some Cubans who are more right wing will be given a larger voice than before but hey, in life it happens that people disagree with you on some matters and despite that they should have a voice too.

By the way, I don’t see a problem with what happened in Bolivia since the people have clearly and democratically elected the leader and party of their choice. Same as Peru. Same as Mexico. Same as Panama. And allow me to remind you that the US does exercise economic and political pressure on these nations too.

But if you think Maduro is the ideal for the future of latin american politics and that he should stay put, you care more about your ideology than actual human lives.

'but hey' if Cuba is turned into a backwater ruthlessly ruled by gusanos and Afro-Cubans get nothing then so what?

Lol liberals and their 'human rights'.

Cuba is a backwater ruthlessly ruled by white authoritarians.

Backwaters don't produce covid vaccines.

Just go there and talk to people.

yeah I suppose that could count as "importation of information" or maybe "professional research"

Been going to classes and practicing yoga for nearly a decade, will start yelling about the benefits of Chakras to troll ppl.

My friend wrote this:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/guest-commentary/os-op-cuba-protests-pay-attention-20210722-53kjtzv2izab5gxe6zagidqany-story.html

Liberal!

Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in your country. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to your market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism.

lift the embargo!

By the way, I don’t see a problem with what happened in Bolivia since the people have clearly and democratically elected the leader and party of their choice.

Ok, if Trump had stayed in power citing false claims of voter fraud, and there were massive protests resulting in dozens of people getting killed, and he finally agreed to new elections and left office in 2022, would you say the same thing? (It’s not a perfect analogy, Anez wasn’t even the choice of a sizable minority.)

Trump even developed a vaccine, see

No the whole situation is so vastly different and so any analogy is useless. Especially since Anez made it clear there would be new elections, that she acted in an interim capacity, and that she and her party kept her word on that. Especially since Anez worked in concert with the opposition party to ensure fair and sound elections. Plus you did not mention the abuse of Morales presenting himself for elections despite losing a referendum to allow limitless terms. Plus Anez would have not gotten the role if MAS didn’t just allow her (a qorum would have been enough to stop her ascending, considering MAS had a big majority of seats, but they did not participate). Plus the unions, usually very left leaning, also called for Morales resignation. None of that could be mapped into American politics.

And also, the point remains: Cubans have a right to free and fair elections, untainted from any foreign influence.

xp

Didn't she claim that she wouldn't run in the new elections, then announce her candidacy anyway, repeatedly postpone the elections, and then only end her candidacy to try to defeat the MAS candidate? And yes, Morales's actions were questionable, but he did win the election, and the evidence of widespread fraud turned out to be false. And you didn't say anything about the dozens of people killed.

Regarding MAS "allowing her": The MAS delegation argued that the parliamentary session's first obligation was to elect its own new leaders (including replacing Salvatierra as president of the Senate), prior to replacing Morales.[45] It declared the session and its vote for Áñez's succession illegal.

And who is going to get involved in those decisions?

Cubans? Is it hard to imagine that Cubans would be able to build a democracy if given the chance?

"If given the chance" doing Sisyphean work there. If you believe the US wouldn't interfere (to the detriment of the Cuban people), you most likely also believe in Santa Claus.

If the western hemisphere's imperial hegemon can go five years without sponsoring a right-wing coup, we can start talking about states being "given a chance" at democracy and self-determination.

Because that govt indeed killed people, but I just don’t see how it relates to a hypothetical involving american politics. Also,a year of interim is pretty fast considering the pandemic situation that developped. Also, I don’t remember Anez making such a promise (but I might be wrong!). It remains that in 2020, the Bolivians chose a governement to their liking and that it worked, and I don’t understand why Cubans shouldn’t be allowed the same democratic exercice.

If anything the Bolivian experience should make a pretty good case that latin americans are able to stick to their principles and autonomy despite foreign interference or the existence of right wing politics.

wasbappin's blog never fails to deliver pic.twitter.com/5PDnPMPOID

— pez (@periuspb) July 24, 2021

Let’s keep the dictatorship for another 60 years because we couldn’t possibly risk the greatest threat of all … US influence.

Has this present US administration opposed the elections of Castillo and Cortizo?

I just find it kind of astonishing to say "I don't see a problem" given that there was a year of anti-democratic rule and brutal treatment of protesters, precipitated by a false narrative of a stolen election. I'm glad that the elections happened and that democracy still seems to function there, but I don't really see it as a reason to think that things will be just fine everywhere.

the greatest threat of all … US influence.

You're so close to getting it.

Morales was as much part of the anti-democratic situation as he clearly overstayed his welcome, and it’s no wonder MAS has clearly distanced itself from Morales since.

But yeah now it’s been many decades of anti-democratic rule, brutal treatment of protestors and false narratives for Cubans, but yes sure, it’s that status quo they want instead of … being able to do like Bolivians in reasserting their autonomy.

You're so close to getting it.

― Joe Bombin (milo z), Saturday, July 24, 2021 5:37 PM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

It will forever astonish me that people would choose Tiannemen Square over Lee Teng-hui, East Germany over West Germany, Soviet Estonia over Finland.

The guy who won the democratic election is as much a part of the anti-democratic situation as the unelected president from the party with single-digit support who presided over the deaths of dozens of protesters?

Despite the fact that he should have not been able to present himself in the first place? Yeah. Seems like abuse to me; which is why lots of left leaning group just abandonning him and decided to trust a OAS report with errors over anything and still to this day don’t care much for the dude.

It will forever astonish me that people would choose Tiannemen Square over Lee Teng-hui, East Germany over West Germany, Soviet Estonia over Finland.

Wouldn't a better analogy, one that's in this hemisphere and not eligible for social security be Colombia and Cuba, today?

Alright, so we just need to allow the Cuban people to have their voices heard, but when the Bolivian people vote to give a guy you don't like another term, it's totally fine to ignore their voices and depose him based on false information.

"Let’s keep the dictatorship for another 60 years because we couldn’t possibly risk the greatest threat of all … US influence."

Nobody is saying this. If the US care about Cubans they should lift the sanctions they've kept for decades and leave Cubans and their administration to it.

Wouldn't a better analogy, one that's in this hemisphere and not eligible for social security be Colombia and Cuba, today?

― Joe Bombin (milo z), Saturday, July 24, 2021 6:11 PM (forty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Colombia has a better health care system than both Cuba and the US per the WHO. Colombia’s social expenditure is also pretty good, higher than South Korea and about the same as Ireland. I don’t know what you are talking about.

...

I have no idea what milo z and xyyz want

I don't think it's necessary to want anything, aside from an end to the embargo (and American imperialism). Interventionists like VHS's fantasy of Cuban autonomy after their desired regime change is risible because of the dishonesty.

So now ‘untainted from any foreign influence’ is interventionism?

y'all enjoy going in circles?

cos it makes for really shitting reading

*shitty

So now ‘untainted from any foreign influence’ is interventionism?

No, it's just a fantasy. (Or, more accurately, dishonesty.)

I have no idea what milo z and xyyz want

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 24 July 2021 bookmarkflaglink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD8Cz2HOlEc

Today, we are imposing further sanctions against the Cuban police following their attacks on protestors, including young people, religious leaders, and civil society organizations. We will continue to promote accountability for the Cuban regime’s human rights abuses.

— Secretary Antony Blinken (@SecBlinken) July 30, 2021

https://t.co/3e23O3AiCo pic.twitter.com/HglTVz123p

— by mennen (@ClassHuggle) August 1, 2021

Lmao we're so fucked https://t.co/VqL8BvRvNR

— Lisa and the banned one (@LisaA311) July 31, 2021

if it wasn’t for Fidel these whiteboys would be owning mansions in Havana rn, shouts out Fidel https://t.co/YvHU0KFBSZ pic.twitter.com/lBHyAnkbIF

— SLANK (@DabSquad_Slank) September 12, 2021