Seinfeld: Classic or Dud

I've been nagged by the thought that it actually was the real Marilyn Manson that I saw a few weeks ago geekily going to the purolator courier in the Atrium on Bay (snootyish office/shopping complex in downtown T.O.)because that's probably the last place on earth that I would expect such a celebrity sighting to happen, so I dismissed out of hand as an arrestingly casual lookalike in a long black coat, yet then I was thinking that all that nega-evidence adds up to it probably being the real Marilyn. anyway...

I love the part in tonight's episode where Kramer is dressed like a pimp. I wish I had a walking stick.

The best was in a later episode where they BROUGHT THE DANCE back. It was only two seconds, but I was practically incontinent.

Anyone who catches the dancing episode on tape for me (NTSC, please) will be my BEST FRIEND 4-EVA.

Two nights ago me and Ramon were sitting in a bar thinking about what we could do to make ourselves look more like pimps/rapists, and his first suggestion was we could walk with a limp, but I said fuck that, I've got a barrel (literally) full of canes (I kid you not). So expect the Clockwork Orange look next time you see us, minus the fake eyebrows and makeup and girly shit.

Hey, I don't think I've seen the reprise. There's a reason to live! Assume everyone has seen the reference at How To Dance Properly

Otherwise, what Mitch said.

Any hot chicks out there want to get bisy just let me know. I got it all . They call me "the Mutt" and with all that implies. And that ain't dirt in my eye.

Larry

I thought this said "...and with all my nipples". I have no clue why or what that could possibly imply but that's much better than what that said.

The Simpsons, conversely, are classic.

Also, Jerry's millions got him that 17 y.o. honey (who ended up dumping his ass, btw). Not the trainers. No way was it the trainers. Please god tell me it wasn't the trainers.

Elaine had the best hair ever in the later series.

Anyway, I want to hate this show, it's the type of cultural phenomenon that normally annoys me, but every time I stumble across a rerun I end up watching it and having some good laffs. Last night I saw the one where Elaine dates a mover but breaks up with him because of his stance on abortion. And George invites himself over to a family's house to watch their rented copy of Breakfast at Tiffany's because he didn't read the book for his study group. It was funny. I'll say classic.

BBC2 didin't treat these shows like the comedy gold they were (sticking them late evening etc WTF?!) whereas crap like friends and will and grace get prime time on C4 (OK the former was funny for the first two series).

crosspost: daddino doesn't rock anymore.

I HAVEN'T EVEN BEGUN TO ROCK YET!

I think comedy ages the worst of all, like herring left on the kitchen counter. "Humor" i.e. Will Rogers, Mark Twain, Dorothy Parker, Tom Lehrer is almost evergreen, but the standup stuff we found funny as kids is sometimes really tiresome and often offensive

i think jerry appealed to the insecure teenage boy part of my brain in that here was this guy totally sure of himself and of how stupid everybody else was. the actual jokes were maybe secondary

maybe you’re right about all that flopson i guess it is just hard to square with how terrible the jokes in the standup bits are

i find them funny 🤷🏻‍♂️

isn't Seinfeld kind of a victim of his own success to some extent, that kind of "what's the deal with [banal thing]" style has become a shorthand for tired, hack comedy, but it was genuinely distinctive and original when he started doing it, and it feels overfamiliar because he was so successful and frequently imitated

I didnt think they were meant to be funny when I did a little re-watch of it, just amusing bits that were providing commentary on what happened.

I wasn't really laughing that much but then by the end you are laughed out.

xp like, 'take my wife - please!' was probably funny the first time people heard it, it's not Henny Youngman's fault it became a cliche

I remember liking Seinfeld (the show) quite a lot when it was on 25 years ago, but ever since whenever I catch a bit of it I can't see at all what I liked about it.

However, this one scene will always fondly stay with me: Jerry has to do a show for kids, chats a bit with George before he's on, then walks in the room and you just see George listening in on his opening: "Hi kids! So what's the deal with homework? You're not working on your home!" after which he's booed by all the kids. George smiles, shakes his head and walks off.

isn't Seinfeld kind of a victim of his own success to some extent, that kind of "what's the deal with [banal thing]" style has become a shorthand for tired, hack comedy, but it was genuinely distinctive and original when he started doing it, and it feels overfamiliar because he was so successful and frequently imitated.

I was just trying to unpick the whole 'how much of a hack is Jerry?' thing in my head*, and was pleased to find someone's done the research on 'what's the deal with...' in Seinfeld

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/59044/whats-deal-whats-deal-did-seinfeld-actually-say-it

* I'm on something like 'it depends on the needs of the episode/joke but our baseline is that he's definitely successful and probably good; however, as time goes on we suspect this whole stand-up thing is sociopathic'

The clip with Seinfeld and Shandling discussing Robin Williams is great - they're both batting this joke back and forth about how you "never hear of 63 being young unless somebody dies". When Shandling does the gag, it's soulful, existential, disturbing. Then Seinfeld repeats the gag back to him, except more condensed, pithier, with more precise timing - and it's funnier but it's suddenly become just "a bit".

Which feeds back into the craft discussion.

that "what's the deal" article is missing this SNL sketch from 1985:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90-jXbyv7ok

Omfggggg

lmao the way they immediately stop fighting when someone brings up Gilligan's Island

they kinda did this same sketch a few years later as a game show. glad it's on YouTube now because I've been looking for it forever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsJYmf_G5d0

Lots of otm comments on here lately.
Cracks about his act become a running gag---he's selling out in reverse (or becoming The Great Hack)(or both of those, because he knows letting on that he is or "is" a hack is now good for business, on this hip show). At least once, it even leads to a confrontation (if you can't see it: the hawt Suthun Belle tells Jerreh she's seen his act).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3kTYCLSgsg

Tracy Kolis! She also plays Kelly (quite a different character---or is she) in "The Soup," Bania's debut:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soup_(Seinfeld)

More fuel for Jerrynalysis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL2sr99Sv18

Just catching up on the fantastic discussion that has gone down in this thread over the past several days. Question about that 1985 backstage SNL sketch, though: are they specifically making fun of Seinfeld, or was this specific style that much of a cliché of stand-up comedians at the time? It’s so on the nose that it’s hard to imagine it’s not the former, but how much of their audience would actually have gotten the reference? I WANNA KNOW!

was wondering the same. I thought Seinfeld himself was relatively unknown until the show.

My best guess is that it’s one of those things, like half of the bits in Zucker Brothers movies, that is a pretty straight parody of a specific thing (in this case Seinfeld), but it’s funny enough that lots of people enjoy it as something random and inspired, with no idea that it’s referencing something at all, let alone what that thing is

jerry was definitely known in 1985! everybody did stand-up like that by then. he was on the Tonight Show way before 1985. he started in the 70s. i certainly remember him from television back then and i am not a professional comedian. he was on Letterman a lot. like Leno.

that whole "did you ever notice..." thing started in the 70s. george carlin would start jokes like that. david brenner was a big influence on the 80s people.

Otm, yeah i think its one of those things where that style was the dominant mode and also Jerry was also one of its most visible proponents, so it would have worked as parody either way.

Has his 1987 HBO special ever come up itt? I think its up on youtube, a typical-for-its-time mix up standup and truly terrible sketches, some of Jerry's familiar material adapted into scripted sketch form with him dressed up as a little kid, a dog, a 1950s dad, etc, really excruciating stuff. A really interesting document of Jerry kinda going along with the accepted showbiz playbook of the day, going past the limits of what hes good at and eating shit. Its easy to imagine him taking off the dog costume and being like "if i'm gonna do a tv show it needs to be nothing like this"

I saw the Pop Tart movie, thought it was good, don't know why it has such bad buzz other than people's general dislike of Seinfeld, plus his complaints about PC killing comedy, plus his support of Israel, plus his dating a 16 year old etc.

It's funny how this is coming out at the same time as all these post-Barbie films about products like Monopoly and Play-Doh are being announced, but it seems mostly like a coincidence based on Seinfeld's weird obsessions despite them appearing so much of a piece.

I hadn't heard of Harold von Braunhut, but he was a real person who was even more strange/sinister than the Wernher von Braun type character in the film:

Harold Nathan Braunhut (March 31, 1926 – November 28, 2003), also known as Harold von Braunhut, was an American mail-order marketer and inventor most famous as the creator and seller of both the Amazing Sea-Monkeys and the X-ray specs,[1] along with many other novelty products marketed towards children, often advertised in comic books. Von Braunhut also gained notoriety for his racial and political views. Despite his Jewish upbringing, he closely associated with white supremacist groups, including the Ku Klux Klan and the Aryan Nations organization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_von_Braunhut

re: Jerry's sociopathic tendencies discussed above, there's a joke about Gus Grissom that genuinely took me aback, though it was funny, film is a strange mixture of the frivolous and cold-blooded, plus this weird genuine affection for all this loving photographed early-60s disposable pop culture junk that doesn't extend to any of the human characters

Yeah, to be a successful observational comedian, I suppose you have to be able to stand outside regular normal human behaviour to an extent, so that you can comment on it. But it always looks ridiculous when comedians show themselves up as being too far outside. Like a bit in Seinfeld where he talks about laundry detergent and how much the ads emphasise its ability to remove bloodstains, and he wonders how much blood people could possibly be encountering on a day-to-day basis, and you just think, do you really not know anyone at all who could explain this to you? You really can't think of any reason that, say, on a monthly basis, some absolutely huge section of the population might be concerned with bloodstains?

I saw a comedian once who had a whole bit about how ridiculous the shower caps in hotel rooms were. He insisted that nobody ever used them. It was very odd. He's now one of those brainworm wake-up-sheeple types.

more solid evidence that the stand-up in the show is bad not good! even if the real jerry s believes the opposite! i will not back down! *waves arms around costanza-style*

"I saw the Pop Tart movie, thought it was good, don't know why it has such bad buzz other than people's general dislike of Seinfeld, plus his complaints about PC killing comedy, plus his support of Israel, plus his dating a 16 year old etc."

omg, its just terrible nobody hates it because of american writer and fashion designer shoshanna lonstein gruss. most people like jerry seinfield! his anti-pc thing is on trend for his age. he hasn't become bill maher yet but its probably only a matter of time. i don't think most average american seinfeld fans have any idea what he thinks about israel.

i like seinfeld. that movie is unwatchable. i tried to watch it. i really did.

as a i wrote on the streaming thread, i agree with this comment on the NYT comments thread for the bizzare positive review that the NYT gave it:

Chris C
Chicago, IL 3h ago

"Unfrosted" has been widely described as one of the worst movies of the *decade*.

To find out for myself, I watched it. My jaw was on the floor. It truly is the worst movie I've ever seen. It's so *lazy.* It's like Seinfeld rolled in every morning at 10, talked through his scenes, did no second takes, then left at 4. Even his narration was the flat, affect-less reading of a blasé high schooler reading aloud to the class.

I was amazed that not a single joke made me laugh. It wasn't so unfunny that I was laughing for the wrong reasons; it was so unfunny that I found myself *silently studying it.* I was oddly enthralled by the utter blandness and poor quality of the writing, acting, and filming. I don't want to give the impression I was entertained -- merely fascinated.

I recommend watching the film yourself, then reading this review. No offense to Ms. Nicholson... I guess it's brave to be the only professional critic in the industry who gave the movie a good review. Truly baffling. Had she watched this after waking up from surgery? For the life of me, I honestly can't imagine a single person watching this movie and calling it a "Critic's Choice." This review is almost as fascinating as the movie.

It wasn't so unfunny that I was laughing for the wrong reasons; it was so unfunny that I found myself *silently studying it.* I was oddly enthralled by the utter blandness and poor quality of the writing, acting, and filming. I don't want to give the impression I was entertained -- merely fascinated.

maybe this is too much of a tenuous 'it's bad on purpose' type argument, but aren't 'silently studying it' 'oddly enthralled by the utter blandness and poor quality' and 'not entertained but merely fascinated' all very Seinfeldinan reactions, typical of how/why Seinfeld is fascinated by pop tarts in the first place? Maybe the film gives you a chance to experience what it's like seeing the world through the eyes of Jerry Seinfeld. I did read another review somewhere (on Letterboxd maybe) in which someone claimed to have been at a preview where Jerry himself was in the audience and was the only one laughing at most of the jokes.

while I was watching it I thought of Purple Toupee by They Might Be Giants, and that maybe you could see it as someone garbled childhood memories of the 1960s, so big world events like the space race and the Cuban missile crisis become mixed up with stuff like Pop Tarts and old kids toys and daydreams, and that's kind of how you remember your childhood?(maybe filtered again through movie representations you saw later). Or something like Alice in Wonderland where you have this parody of the adult world seen from the perspective of a child, where the adult world is both ridiculous and menacing with all these incompressible games and competitions.

the opening shot of the various items the kid is carefully laying out in the bindle before he runs away from home - a slinky, a Gold Key Woody Woodpecker comic book, a GI Joe - I definitely remember being a kid and being fascinated by various objects like this, just sitting there examining them, it seems like this is how Seinfeld felt about pop tarts? (and at the end, after pop tarts are a hit he fulfils his dream and gets a sod grass lawn, like this is the adult equivalent)

https://i.discogs.com/7y0p1O_QssP2c-ieYMe7be9Al4g-VI-PyHw55Xq5BXY/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:598/w:598/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTc1MTI4/MDMtMTU0ODE3Mjkz/MS02OTY2LmpwZWc.jpeg

https://i.discogs.com/7QrPrNefPwpPRz0A9sDait4n29gHJaOC1ZowgMEGRgE/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:598/w:598/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTc1MTI4/MDMtMTU0ODE3Mjk0/MC01ODk2LmpwZWc.jpeg

https://i.discogs.com/8hht8da8QyihRhKFvoCZzfprBMOYE0VsHUbPI-23DoU/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:428/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTc1MTI4/MDMtMTU1NjAzNzEw/Mi00NzA1Lm1wbw.jpeg

that's how long i have lived with boomer daydreams. since 1973!

Maybe the film gives you a chance to experience what it's like seeing the world through the eyes of Jerry Seinfeld. I did read another review somewhere (on Letterboxd maybe) in which someone claimed to have been at a preview where Jerry himself was in the audience and was the only one laughing at most of the jokes.

It's an interesting one, because everyone is always telling writers not to try and chase an audience, rather to be true to themselves and write about what they're interested in, and the authenticity will attract the right audience. And there are a lot of comedians who are happy with being weird and not caring what people think of them, really. I just never thought of Jerry Seinfeld as one of those comedians.

Jerry Seinfeld taught me it was okay to be weird

seinfeld_ziggy_stardust_facepaint.png

scott otm, i couldn’t get through unfrosted and i’m a shameless seinfeld apologist

i just remember thinking: dude, you are supposed to be the expert comedy technician who studies the history and knows everything about comedy and is a master of the game or whatever how could you watch the dailies and think this was in any way funny and how could the TIMING of the thing be so awkward and stilted? master of the game, remember!!??
but he couldn't hear me. he was too busy hyping it on every show on earth. what a sucky thing to have to hype for weeks on end.

remember Bee Movie

He was legitimately great at this on Seinfeld though, something that really defines that show for me is how most episodes end on a good joke rather than trying to wrap anything up

I just searched 'Unfrosted' on twitter to see if I was maybe off-base with my impression that it's getting a mostly negative reaction and after scrolling through dozens of people hating on it the first positive comment is from someone whose profile says they own over 2300 Funko Pops lol (including/plus "300 + grails")

Kurt Pickard
Murfreesboro, TN 2h ago

"Unfrosted" is a true delight, especially for those of us who grew up during that era. For those who didn't, I can see where some of the nuanced humor gets lost. No bloody violence, foul language, sex or computer graphics. The casting is superb and we need to keep a special eye on Eleanor Sweeney. Everyone in the house can lean back in the recliner and enjoy some good natured fun. How uncommon is that these days? Jerry Seinfeld hit this movie out of the park and should be nominated for an Oscar's Oscar. My only complaint is that Larry David was noticeably absent.

no bloody violence, foul language, sex or computer graphics 👎🏽

it does have that Gus Grissom joke though, which has divided even fans of the film

@JerrySeinfeld I very much enjoyed Unfrosted. I would be pleased if you would consider removing the name of Gus Grissom from the movie. It's not appropriate. Also, FYI - IBM is not responsible for Univac. Of course Chef Boy-are-dee had noting to do with Pop Tarts either. :)

— ReadandRight (@ReadandRight999) May 10, 2024

The casting is superb and we need to keep a special eye on Eleanor Sweeney.

assuming that this was the girl who played one of the two kids who appear at various points throughout the film, she was really eerily good

That Kurt Pickard review reminds me of those Walter Monheit blurbs in Spy Magazine back in the day. (In fairness it should be pointed out that the Spy Magazine TV Special in the late 80's was ably hosted by a young Jerry Seinfeld.)