one month passes...
two weeks pass...
one month passes...
My opinion might displease some people on this thread, but here it is:
I voted for Hillary Clinton. And Hillary Clinton is actually expected to win the popular vote: http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-election-aftermath-updates-trail-looks-like-clinton-will-win-the-popular-1478698530-htmlstory.html, which unfortunately does not determine who becomes president. Trump won because a bunch of worthless white racist slobs currently controls the electoral college. We have to wait until this worthless bunch of racist subhumans dies off.
And we can try to do one of two things:
We can try to eliminate the electoral college (here's a petition trying to do just that: https://www.dailykos.com/campaigns/petitions/sign-the-petition-abolish-the-electoral-college?link_id=0&can_id=cc8c9327243fd3d0b3a74c5ff2711a97&source=email-sign-the-petition-end-the-electoral-college-elect-presidents-by-national-popular-vote&email_referrer=sign-the-petition-end-the-electoral-college-elect-presidents-by-national-popular-vote&email_subject=sign-the-petition-end-the-electoral-college-elect-presidents-by-national-popular-vote).
Or, we can try to create an electoral college that contains a much more culturally diverse group of Americans; an electoral college made up of people from many American communities. I don't know precisely how to do this second thing.
Old Lunch (and like-minded ILXers), I don't think reaching out to racist white pro-Trump neighbors in your community has much to do with anything, unless these people in your community happen to be members of the electoral college.
Hope I won't be penalized here on ILX if my statement seems harsh. I'm just being honest: Hillary Clinton won (or is currently thought to have won) the popular vote. She won the votes of the members of your community, unless your community is primarily made up of the members of the electoral college.
― am.curious.sometimes, Thursday, November 10, 2016 2:04 AM (twenty hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
To soma's little yelpers (lion in winter): Well some political commentators think that it's not at all impossible to eliminate the electoral college: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/11/9/1594792/-The-surprisingly-realistic-path-to-eliminating-the-Electoral-College-by-2020. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post it. And I'm not sure where you're getting the "half the country subhuman" from: I said many of those on the electoral college are subhuman. The people of the electoral college are not half the population: Unless you have some statistics that demonstrate otherwise, then by all means please post that here. And nowhere did I say that the population is subhuman: The population overwhelmingly voted for Hillary Clinton. The electoral college is subhuman, and the electoral college is a small segment of the population.
And soma's little yelpers (lion in winter) said "I personally can't square myself with a political future where I'm simply waiting for people who hold reprehensible opinions to die. If that's what you personally want to do, sure. But you're advocating for an institutional change with no guarantees based on a belief that your opponents have no innate worth." You might not have much of a choice regarding "waiting for people who hold reprehensible opinions to die." That's life. Regarding "a belief that your opponents have no innate worth": You don't define what exactly you mean by my "opponents". I specified that many of the people on the electoral college have little, if any, innate worth. In my view, the people of the electoral college, are not so much opponents; rather they are a waste.
To difficult listening hour: The "virtuous 59.16 million of us" wouldn't happen automatically. You would probably have to politically organize to create a more culturally diverse electoral college. I have already admitted that this option seems to be the trickier one to do successfully. And nowhere did I say that the electoral college would just become "virtuous" after the turds (yes! I'll keep saying it! turds/slobs/subhumans!) die off/retire. I did imply that someone (such as political groups, etc.) would have to work to create a more culturally diverse electoral college.
I stand by my original statement: Hillary Clinton won the popular vote. The people of your communities overwhelmingly voted for her against trump. She lost because of the electoral college. People here still don't seem to realize: The general population did not overwhelmingly vote for trump; they voted for Hillary Clinton.
― am.curious.sometimes, Thursday, November 10, 2016 2:50 AM (nineteen hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
k3vin k. said "you do realize the people making up the electoral college aren-- ah, nevermind". Finish the sentence; not sure what your argument is supposed to be. If you're trying to say that the electoral college represents the population, you're absolutely wrong. The electoral college represents a small segment of the population, often gerrymandered. You need to do some reading: https://www.thenation.com/article/gops-new-voter-suppression-strategy-gerrymander-electoral-college/
And http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/gop-wants-a-minority-popular-vote-to-control-the-electoral-college-winner And http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joan-fitzgerald/electoral-college-gerrymandering_b_2552584.html.
To k3vin k.: That's why Hillary Clinton won the popular vote. So what exactly do I or don't I "realize" about those making up the electoral college? Unless your idea of a political institution that represents the population/American communities somehow involves a small gerrymandered subsection of the US population, I don't get your point.
The popular vote gave Hillary Clinton the win (unfortunately, that doesn't count).
Don't know why you're all so in denial. The electoral college represents a small (often gerrymandered) segment of the US population.
And the point is: What political good do you think will come of 'engaging' with 'questionable' (or, if that term bothers you, substitute your own term) members of your community? Let's say you change all of their minds, and get them to vote for whomever you want: The (gerrymandered) electoral college is still where the decision is made. Unless your community is made up of primarily members of the gerrymandered electoral college, the election results will be the same as they were this time.
I don't know how many times I must say this: Hillary Clinton won the popular vote. A small (gerrymandered) subsection of the American population voted trump in as president.
Ah, nevermind...
― am.curious.sometimes, Thursday, November 10, 2016 3:23 AM (nineteen hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
a little too mature to be cute (Aimless): First of all, the electoral college is often gerrymandered.
Second, I proposed legally trying to change the electoral college (which I admitted was the harder of the main two options; eliminating the electoral college is apparently easier). So your explanation of how you think the electoral college actually works is irrelevant.
Got it? Good!
― am.curious.sometimes, Thursday, November 10, 2016 3:26 AM (nineteen hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Again to a little too mature to be cute (Aimless): And the suggested political reading that I posted describes just how the electoral college can indeed be legally changed. (Unfortunately the changes were made by right-wingers in order to elect more and more right-wingers regardless of who wins the popular vote.) So, like I said, your attempt at explaining to me how you think the electoral college works is irrelevant. As facts have demonstrated, the electoral college can be legally changed.
To Karl Malone: I'm not misunderstanding anything. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote. The electoral college put trump in power. The electoral college is gerrymandered; it does not represent the general population. The electoral college can be legally change; it can also be realistically eliminated completely. What "u.s. civics concept" did I misunderstand? Do tell.
To soma's little yelpers (lion in winter): As for "electors refuse to do their ceremonial jobs": If you read my posts you will see that I said: Hillary Clinton won the popular vote. The main point being: 'Engaging' with communities that you think put trump in power makes little sense, since the population at large did not put trump in power. Nowhere did I say that the electoral college should not do their current (gerrymandered) job. I did say that, a better use of time is to either: Eliminate the electoral college completely (which is both legal and not at all impossible to do); Or, legally change the electoral college: which I have admitted all along is the trickier option to accomplish. You can most certainly legally change the electoral college: It's already been done (unfortunately by right-wingers to help the GOP win). So, any claims that i don't understand US civics is uninformed nonsense. How the electoral college currently might work is irrelevant here.
So, go ahead and waste your time 'engaging' with those that you think put trump in power. If the electoral college remains the same, the election results will be the same.
Got it? Good!
Ah, nevermind...
― am.curious.sometimes, Thursday, November 10, 2016 3:56 AM (eighteen hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
No, I don't think there are 2 elections taking place. I guess I need to put this really simply:
"Engaging' with those in your communities that you think put trump in power is a waste of time. They might have voted for trump but they did not have much of a deciding influence. Simple enough?
A better use of time, if you want to try to change outcomes of future elections, would include one of two major options:
1.) Legally eliminate the electoral college completely: Which is legal and not at all impossible to do.
Or
2.) Legally change the composition of the electoral college. This is also legal and has in fact already been done (by right-wingers to elect more and more right-wingers). Posting about how the electoral college currently works is irrelevant, since the point is to legally change how it works.
But by all means waste your time 'engaging' with those in your communities you think voted trump in to power. But don't whine when future election results remain the same and the same and the same...
I don't know how much more I can try to explain.
― am.curious.sometimes, Thursday, November 10, 2016 4:09 AM (eighteen hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― did we ever get wizz sorted (wins), Thursday, 10 November 2016 22:30 (seven years ago) link
two months pass...
one month passes...