Old School - Nethack

now i'm smoking a celebratory joint

i kinda never thought i'd ascend - i took a long break but last couple weeks i had been craving a rich gameplay experience and nothing was delivering so i booted up nethack again and it was exactly what i wanted. it's ridiculous but it's also so deep and requires so much attentiveness and as insane as this probably sounds i love the inventory juggling and making sure you have each piece you need and getting yr identification system set up, and finding a reliable BUC check, and getting a steady stream of holy water and exploiting opportunities for wishes. it's funny bc i thought that if i ascended i'd exorcise it permanently from my life but now that it's over i keep thinking about how tempting a wizard ascension looks. if anything it'll be nice to find an identification spellbook and never have to worry about that bullshit again...

...or maybe i should take another break.

"The Amulet of Yendor named REAL" :D (I've done that when I also found the fake plastic one)

Very impressive, Mordy, and a well deserved joint I'd say. I'd say quite a speedy run as well, I've never ascended under 50k moves. Your inventory is something I've not even come close to since I started again in the last couple of weeks. Your abundance of live saving amulets would've been welcome. But like you I too enjoy the inventory juggling. Not about the destination but about the journey etc. Massive props to you, this is a very, very good Ascension. Can imagine how you felt at the moment you sacrificed the amulet.

One question: you say you kept writing charge scrolls for your wand of wishing. Doesn't it turn to dust after two charges? Oh, and how do you 'brute write' genocide?

i used the charge scrolls for the wand of wishing but also for the death wands and the magic markers so i got a lot of use out of my stuff. the thing is tho that i never found a charging scroll 'out in the wild' and i only found a genocide scroll in gehennom which, from experience, would've been too late for me. but even if you're not a wizard you can try writing unknown scrolls. you'll fail a bunch but you can 'brute force' the scroll eventually and once you know it, you can replicate it. so i kept trying to write charging and genocide scrolls until i figured it out (went thru a bunch of scrolls and magic marker charges but once i had charging i had a lot more magic marker and i found plenty of scrolls to blank). ended up genociding liches, mind flayers, master mind flayers (separately bc a blessed genocide of mind flayers would've killed all dwarves including me as well), sea monsters, and disenchanters. i couldn't even think of what else i cared about genociding at that point so i ended the game with a scroll or 2 of genocide i found in gehennom unused. you'll see that i used a ton of wishes. i got 5 out of the wand of wishing (found w/ one charge + 3 with recharging + wringing final wish from the wand), 2 out of magic lamps, and 1 out of sitting on the throne in vlad's. it was the first throne sit that did anything good for me the entire game and by that time i didn't even need it so iirc i wished for another wand of death.

i'm so happy that i still haven't closed the app. it's open to the final image.

any trips for playing as a wizard? i'm just so squishy at the beginning of the game. the furthest i've gotten is to around level 7.

What version? I've ascended with a wiz but relied HEAVILY on Elbereth, which has been very much nerfed in 3.6

I've never ascended as a wizard - I've not ascended with a lot of other types, but def tried (and died) the most with wizard. If you chose your alignment and aren't an atheist, it's key to sacrifice early on in the game to get Magicbane (and enchant it a couple of times once you have it). Also, since wizards are weak, keep your pet close, even if your pet does most of the killing for you, leading to you not being as exp as you could have been. I save the mines to rack up exp and strength usually when I'm confident I can take it on. Helm of brilliance also an absolute necessity, esp later on, for reading and spell-casting successfully.

But I feel your pain and I am yet to crack it myself. The wizard's dilemma continuously seems to be: keep exp low, so no tougher monsters are generated; or big up your exp, but that leads to tougher combat. You can reach the mid stages of the game having chosen either, but at some point you find yourself severely lacking because of the path you did not choose.

I love you are still playing this btw. I am too. It's "complicated", my relationship with nethack, but it's def my first love that I will forever reminisce about and play again and again. Looking forward to hearing on how you proceed.

I think the main reason I love playing as a wizard is that you encounter different spellbooks from run to run, so you're forced to adapt and be flexible, making the most of what you find (until you find a magic marker heheh)--better hope you don't just find, like, Knock, Wizard Lock, and Stone to Flesh!

Haham I get that! I started playing (net)hack on a unix machine, when I was 8 or 9 years old, and me and my buddy would *always* play wizard, hoping one sweet day we'd start with the ray of death. We had no clue, but that's how it started! Learning spells is quite the chore, even for the stasis nethack is as a game.

Dan, what 'route' did you choose on your successful ascension? Keep exp low to avoid stronger combat or just go all in

It never occurred to me to to try to keep xp low, unless you're trying to get protection from the priest in minetown without going broke!

Rather than trying to keep xp low, if you don't feel confident that you can handle more difficult monsters, stay in the upper levels longer.

I haven't played this since 3.6 tbh, I spammed Elbereth so hard that it'd be like a totally different game for me now

I’m playing 3.6 what was the nerf?

They describe the changes here https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Elbereth and, like, https://www.reddit.com/r/nethack/comments/4fq3u0/how_hard_was_elbereth_nerfed_in_360/d2bl1sd/ but the ones that would have the most effect on play, it seems to me, are:
-Elbereth now has a chance to erode whenever it scares a monster.
-Elbereth doesn't work in Gehennom or the endgame anymore.

I mainly used Elbereth when I was surrounded by monsters, and I counted on it remaining intact until I was prepared (healed up or whatever). Now, if I have 8 monsters around me and one of them gets scared away, that could obliterate Elbereth and the other 7 would kick my ass.

The experts would say that you should be prepared enough in the later game that you'd never have to use it, but I'm not an expert and I used it all the fucking time

Don't even get me started on the 3.6 changes to Magic Resistance! Basically, they made a very difficult game much, much more difficult in 3.6

oops, I meant magic cancellation

I'm having a really good game. I got a steady supply of holy water and found a bag of holding early so I've been able to do neat stuff like identify tons of rings (found slow digestion, a ring of protection +5!, levitation already, etc), wands (sadly no wishing wands yet), potions, found an altar and got a bunch of holy water (but haven't been able to sacrifice up my weapon yet so i'm still using this lousy quarterstaff +1 - if i die this will be the reason), wrote up and blessed a bunch of enchant armor scrolls so now my AC at lvl 10 is -10 (i could make it even higher but i only have two pieces of armor i plan to ascend w/ - boots of speed and cloak of magic resistance - so i don't want to waste the two magic markers i found). i really need to get ahold of that Magicbane athame tho so i can start training up my daggers. that actually makes me kinda nervous that i'll be starting daggers from scratch at some pt. still gotta hit up mine's end to find a luckstone. i'm sitting in sobokan right now trying to be extremely patient. my spellbook is decent but no healing spells - and also when you get overwhelmed w/ monsters you never have enough spell power. anyway i'm still a ways off from the castle so i'm not super close to ascending but this is def my best wizard game yet so... prepare for my update in 3 hours when i've died :p

You made me load up a quick game, got killed by a sewer rat - literally took all 12 of my hp in one move!

You have slow digestion and an altar, so why not just camp out and sacrifice until you get Magicbane?

Also, throwing daggers exercises the dagger skill, iirc, so you should be throwing them all the time (and it's a good range weapon against lower-level monsters for Wiz anyway; it lets you save your spells and wands for more difficult ones)

finished Sokoban, got the Magicbane (yay!), and just found a magic lamp. thinking i'll probably use it and pull up either silver dragon armor or a helm of brilliance. i did find the amulet of reflection in Soko which would make silver dragon armor somewhat redundant however i don't have poison resistance intrinsic yet (eesh, i know) so i could actually somewhat use my amulet of poison resistance atm. also the AC boost would be sweet. otoh i've never actually played w/ a helm of brilliance so for all i know it's insanely op. thoughts?

maybe i should mention my current body armor is studded leather armor +0 and my current head armor is an elf helm +0

as much as i'd like the helm right now to try it out i am kinda leaning silver armor bc a) i think my quest item uses the neck slot anyway, and b) i think the AC boost will probably make me hardier until i can get to the castle and complete my kit.

Impressive! I'd say you're pretty much as best underway as a wizard as you can be (I've certainly not made it to the point where you are now being so, 'all-round') I'd go for the silver armor at this point, too, you'll complete your attire at the castle.

What's your strength and hp at this point?

It's crazy how little I remember of this game except for the names of the demons

I played it every day for two years, but was always speed-running to the bottom of the dwarven area in order to get early, easy, low-level THAC0 reduction-- iirc

feeling really good about this run now. got down to the castle and completed my outfit so now i've got like -33 AC and still like 3 wishes left over. i have 3 uncharged magic markers, plenty of scrolls, basically the whole ascension kit. i'm about ready to do my quest (it was taking forever to level up so i reverse genocided some wraiths and that did it). i don't want to jinx myself but high level wizard really is super OP. i've already genocided all the sea creatures, liches and mind flayers. i found a wand of death with charges on it... i have an amulet of life saving.

do any of you guys have experience with polymorphing items? i have the spell and i have a ton of stuff to polymorph (rings, wands, unicorn horns).

The only prob necessary stuff I still need is maybe a ring of conflict and amulet of magic breathing but I figured I can wish for them when I need them and maybe I’ll find or poly them first. Also no tanning kit yet but same thing (and not a priority I have almost every resistance intrinsic now). Did they change the levels so that there are now mazes before the castle? I found two floors of mazes btwn Medusa and the castle and for some reason I don’t remember them being there before (tho I prob just don’t remember)

That sounds awesome! Do you have reflection (did you end up getting that sdsm)? How's your magic resistance and cancellation?

I got the sdsm so I have reflection. I'm using the starting wizard cloak of magic resistance for MR and MC1. not sure how to go about getting better MC or if I need it? i have the helm of brilliance, speed boots, and some normal enchanting gauntlets. i'm wearing the amulet of life saving atm but i'm wondering what i'll do when i get the wizard quest artifact. swap the two depending on the circumstances?

oh u know what nm. i have a ring of protection +5 which is giving me the rest of the MC i need i think so i'm good.

i don't have great news. my nethack program has become super buggy and i've now lost 3 ascension worthy chars in a row to bugs and problems. i'm gonna find a new client to play in but it seems like pickings for mac are pretty slim.

Man, that blows. I never played nethack on a mac. In fact I've got an old netbook around here which is p much only used for playing nethack.

Does the program just quit with your game being lost?

No it ends the game bc of “trickery” aka the stop game it gives you when it detects you’ve been cheating by editing save files. I actually get a score and conduct report and everything.

Damn, that sucks. And quite frankly I am a bit upset! Your wizard quest was so full of promise. With an attire and inventory well up to speed. Better than I ever managed a wizard, that's for sure. Idk why, whenever I try playing this as a wizard it just never happens. No lucky breaks.

Bar-Hum-Mal-Cha

https://imgur.com/4ObyK03.jpeg

my final kit in case anyone is curious:

an uncursed amulet of reflection (being worn)
a +5 silver saber (wielded in other hand)
the cursed rustproof +6 Stormbringer (weapon in hand)
a blessed fireproof +5 pair of speed boots (being worn)
a blessed +4 robe (being worn)
an uncursed rustproof +4 helm of telepathy (being worn)
a blessed +5 T-shirt with text "Don't Panic" (being worn)
a blessed +5 pair of gauntlets of power (being worn)
an uncursed +5 gray dragon scale mail (being worn)
ring of conflict (being worn)
ring of free action (being worn)

Congratulations Dalialatte

I still have weird ASCII nightmares about those four bosses. Which is the one who saps your level? Pestilence?

And my internal monologue thinks about "blessed scroll of genocide" maybe once a month

Awesome! congratulations! 3.6.0?

yeah, 3.60. i got the cocoa compiler to fix the bugs i was running into and i rebuilt it on may 25th and it has been pretty smooth (ran into one fatal crash since then but otherwise okay)

i found an outrageous number if gain level potions and wraith corpses that game

congrats

it’s weird, since i got into the Michael Brough roguelikes i never really have the urge to play nethack. or any rogue like i can’t play on the bus i guess

Congrats Mordy, very nice kit you've got there (love the shirt). Didn't Stormbringer being cursed hamper you?

Nah happened near the very end. Didn’t even notice it until I ascended so either the Wizard cursed it while i was scaling the dungeon or maybe someone on the Astral Plane did.

Feel like such a n00b, having played Nethack for 30 years, but I'm playing 3.6 for the first time. Went down the Gnomish mines, and for some reason there are iron bars, barring me from entering the shop section? It's the # sign. How does one enter the shops?

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Minetown#Orcish_Town

yeah it's the new minetown and there are no shopkeepers - you'll need to pickaxe your way in

the only plus side really is you're guaranteed an altar without a priest

Have a new laptop, just downloaded the new(est) Nethack and had no idea. Thanks guys!

No shopkeepers: this doesn't feel right. At all.