Captain America returning in Avengers 4 seems like the start of this kind of thing, at least for Marvel (tho of course Cap hadn't actually died in the comics previously, just been cancelled - a fate worse than death for any comics character). Things like 'The Death of Superman' from 1961 also addressed the idea of superheroes being mortal; even tho it was an imaginary story, it clearly had a big effect on comic book readers of the time, and helped to establish the death/resurrection parallels between superheroes and Jesus.
― Foster Twelvetrees (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 21 July 2016 09:42 (seven years ago) link
And here it's confirmed that the intention was really to kill Xavier:
Per Roy Thomas in the intro to Marvel Masterworks: The X-Men vol. 4 (written in 2004):
"At the time, I believe it was our intention that he was really dead - as dead as Bucky Barnes, and that's dead, my friend - but I recall mentally leaving myself an "out" to bring him back, if we ever wanted to."
The "out" is using the Changeling, and that's what ultimately is used to bring Xavier back.
(xpost)
― Tuomas, Thursday, 21 July 2016 09:46 (seven years ago) link
Captain America returning in Avengers 4 seems like the start of this kind of thing, at least for Marvel (tho of course Cap hadn't actually died in the comics previously, just been cancelled - a fate worse than death for any comics character).
I'm not sure if this really counts since, as you said, it hadn't been established earlier that he was dead, and the "death" was introduced as a retcon in the same story he was resurrected. Later on they even had to do another retcon to explain why Cap had been active in the '50s, if he died in WWII.
― Tuomas, Thursday, 21 July 2016 09:49 (seven years ago) link
Possibly the Green Goblin?
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 21 July 2016 09:58 (seven years ago) link
Wasn't he revealed to be alive only in the mid-90s, i.e. a decade after the Jean Grey retcon?
― Tuomas, Thursday, 21 July 2016 10:00 (seven years ago) link
I get confused about Harry Osborn. Didn't JM DeMatteis kill him off in the early 90s?
― Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 21 July 2016 10:42 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, he didn't come back until that Spidey super-retcon Brand New Day.
― Nhex, Thursday, 21 July 2016 11:07 (seven years ago) link
I'll have to have a flip through the old OHOTMU book of the dead to confirm, but my recollection is that not many major characters died before, like, the '80s, and when they did die (and it wasn't a one-issue feint or something) they generally stayed dead.
― Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Thursday, 21 July 2016 12:39 (seven years ago) link
Uncle Ben, Bucky, Osborns Norman and Harry, Gwen Stacy, Captain Marvel, Kraven...most of those deaths were Big Deals (some with storylines/graphic novels specifically dedicated to the event), and most have stuck or at least weren't undone until much later.
― Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Thursday, 21 July 2016 12:41 (seven years ago) link
Is that not just a factor of the fact that no-one was planning in the mid-term? And of course that no-one was planning, with those deaths, for their return at all.
(xp Tuomas completely OTM about Jean Gray prededeceasing Norman Osborne)
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 21 July 2016 12:46 (seven years ago) link
Preressurrecting, I assume you meant.
― Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Thursday, 21 July 2016 12:50 (seven years ago) link
On the rare occasions I dip into Marvel continuity since I stopped reading comics in like 1988 or so*, it strengthens my resolve to discount anything that happened in comics since I stopped reading in like 1988 or so. In my head, Gwen is still dead, etc, and it's a better place to be.
* Loved the Morrison and Whedon runs on X-men tho. I am corny.
― woke newt (stevie), Thursday, 21 July 2016 12:54 (seven years ago) link
Isn't the "real" Gwen Stacy still dead tho? AFAIK Spider-Gwen is a parallel universe version of her or something?
― Tuomas, Thursday, 21 July 2016 12:56 (seven years ago) link
I think Captain Marvel proved that the best way to kill a character and ensure he stays dead is to have him succumb to a real-life mortal illness. Because having someone come back from that would be considered bad taste, even if it makes no sense that Reed Richards or any of the other Marvel super-scientists haven't come up with a cure for cancer yet.
― Tuomas, Thursday, 21 July 2016 12:58 (seven years ago) link
don't tempt millar
― thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Thursday, 21 July 2016 13:07 (seven years ago) link
Deadpool has cancer, and his rogue super-healing factor keeps him from dying - in theory without the cancer his cells would keep growing and kill him.
And that, I've just found out, is why Normal Osborne found a cure for cancer, put it in a bullet, and fired it at Deadpool.
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 21 July 2016 13:23 (seven years ago) link
See, these are plots I would have rejected for being too ridiculous back when I was a six-year-old playing with action figures.
― woke newt (stevie), Thursday, 21 July 2016 13:49 (seven years ago) link
I... kind of like that idea for taking out Deadpool, particularly coming from Osborne.
help
― http://porno (DJP), Thursday, 21 July 2016 13:59 (seven years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/AcsCubh.jpg
― mh, Thursday, 21 July 2016 14:01 (seven years ago) link
Sauron makes a valid point
― http://porno (DJP), Thursday, 21 July 2016 14:11 (seven years ago) link
all we are is rice paper puppies
― thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Thursday, 21 July 2016 14:13 (seven years ago) link
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/comics/2010-09-01-onemonth-marvel01-ST_N.htm
― thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Thursday, 21 July 2016 14:41 (seven years ago) link
okay I can't deal with that
― http://porno (DJP), Thursday, 21 July 2016 15:11 (seven years ago) link
it's on marvel unlimited! gonna read it real quick.
― thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Thursday, 21 July 2016 15:18 (seven years ago) link
surprise! it's remender in hateful and weird mode! and the purple man shows up at the end of the first issue. I will be stopping now.
― thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Thursday, 21 July 2016 15:23 (seven years ago) link
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/sienkiewicz-calls-out-fox-over-x-men-apocalypse-dazzler-art-credit
― thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Tuesday, 9 August 2016 13:47 (seven years ago) link
Right now, my favorite Marvel book is Doctor Strange
― Very selfish, and very ironic (DJP), Wednesday, January 13, 2016 9:03 AM (6 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I just started on this (copped the "Timely Comics" three-issues-in-one deal for $1) and, WOW.
― Crazy Eddie & Jesus the Kid (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 9 August 2016 22:34 (seven years ago) link
I think Aaron's easily the best staff writer at Marvel right now, but I find Strange kind of unreadable - maybe it's the art? Thor is a bit offgame too, compared to the 2012-5 stretch, but it's still fun.
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 10 August 2016 01:21 (seven years ago) link
I was a little chagrined about Aaron's move to Marvel because I wasn't crazy about some of his earlier stuff, but I have to admit he's really been knocking it out of the park.
― Neither F.I.S.T. Nor Fletch (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 10 August 2016 01:28 (seven years ago) link
Aaron's first year on Thor - it's one long story - is my fave comic of the past few years. Just this super fun, super-casual epic with no particular continuity. I kind of wish he'd go back to that style with the new Thor.
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 10 August 2016 01:38 (seven years ago) link
Was that the one with the Godkiller arc?
― Nhex, Thursday, 11 August 2016 01:27 (seven years ago) link
I'm a sucker for Chris Bachalo tho, especially having come up on his Shade the Changing Man.
― Crazy Eddie & Jesus the Kid (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 11 August 2016 21:30 (seven years ago) link
Vision is _really_ good btw.
― thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Monday, 15 August 2016 20:01 (seven years ago) link
Keep hearing good things about it. Will it make sense if you have no idea of current marvel universe, or is it all avengers linked?
― 🐸a hairy howling toad torments a man whose wife is deathly ill (James Morrison), Tuesday, 16 August 2016 01:07 (seven years ago) link
The issues I read were almost completely isolated from the rest of the Marvel U
― Don't boo, vote (DJP), Tuesday, 16 August 2016 02:03 (seven years ago) link
they are and thank god. basically you can walk in knowing nothing and it's fine.
― thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Tuesday, 16 August 2016 05:01 (seven years ago) link
Just read the first twos use, they're really fun! Robots arguing about grammar. So far I kind of prefer fhe quotidian stuff to the action stuff, but book's gotta have a plot I guess.
I get why people were interested In him doing Batman now - this seems a lot better, though?
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 16 August 2016 07:21 (seven years ago) link
*two issues
batman curdled on the third issue for me tbh10 issues into vision and 9 into sheriff of babylon and they're both just about the best comix coming out right now on a monthly basis for my moneytom king has a very specific style and i like it a lot.his run on vision ends at issue 12http://www.vulture.com/2016/07/sheriff-of-babylon-comic-book-iraq-war.html
― thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Tuesday, 16 August 2016 16:29 (seven years ago) link
imo Omega Men is the DC title written by Tom King to go by, not this Batman run that just started. Like Vision, it's divorced enough from continuity and editorial direction to be its own thing.
― mh, Tuesday, 16 August 2016 17:32 (seven years ago) link
Omega Men felt a little compressed at the end - like editorial told him he had to wrap it up before Rebirth - but until the last few issues its the best thing DC has done since Dial H.
― EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 16 August 2016 18:39 (seven years ago) link
we're all omega men now
― mh, Tuesday, 16 August 2016 18:42 (seven years ago) link
It was cancelled at 7 then given another 5 issues due to fan outcry.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 16 August 2016 19:38 (seven years ago) link
man DC really has no clue what's good
― mh, Tuesday, 16 August 2016 19:40 (seven years ago) link
I couldn't get into Omega Men but I keep hearing good things. Should I try again and persist? I also couldn't get into Dial H, despite wanting to...
I think Tom King was also involved in Grayson, which I enjoyed.
― salsa shark, Tuesday, 16 August 2016 19:58 (seven years ago) link
The Omega Men series had an issue #0 I missed on first reading. It sets the stage for the first act, which is otherwise a little muddled although it's doing the work of setting up the basis for the rest of the series. The main plot turn is when their abductee, Kyle Raynor, finally sees why the group is fighting together, despite their different origins.
The actual rebellion/battle would have probably gone on much longer had the series continued, and expanded on the denouement, which nevertheless ends up with the gray moral resolution that the series deserves
― mh, Tuesday, 16 August 2016 20:22 (seven years ago) link
i agree about omega men being "compressed"; it's still notably better than about 95% of what DC has put out in the past five years.i get the sense he really barely has any interest in writing batman but it pays super well and sells books.
― thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Tuesday, 16 August 2016 21:34 (seven years ago) link
Such a boring character for writers. I'd do it in a second of course, but ugh.
― I wish you could see my home. It's... it's so... exciting (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 16 August 2016 23:49 (seven years ago) link
from King's Ringer interview:
“Batman is its own beast,” King said. “It’s weird. I write these very thinky comics where there’s no hero. Sheriff doesn’t have a hero; no one at the end of it is gonna be like: ‘Yay! I triumphed and solved terrorism!’ Vision, at the end, it’s set up as a tragedy and I know how it ends, it’s tragic. What Batman is, is a story about a hero triumphant. The best thing Batman can do with me is to be a good comic that takes people a little bit outside of their day, where they can read and be like, ‘Holy shit!’ That gives you a jolt of pleasure. I’m not trying with Batman to be like, ‘OK, here I want to comment on the world.’ I want to make Die Hard.”
― thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Wednesday, 17 August 2016 00:01 (seven years ago) link
pretty sure it's being guided by editorial to use a bunch of characters and plot devices familiar with their movie and tv properties. as the gotham tv show season featuring hugo strange ends and the suicide squad movie comes out, we get batman dealing with... hugo strange and amanda waller
― mh, Wednesday, 17 August 2016 00:03 (seven years ago) link