Free Speech and Creepy Liberalism

Xp to mordy

this latest part of the thread makes as much sense to me as a cricket thread

― droit au butt (Euler), Friday, July 15, 2016 6:50 AM (2 hours ago)

treeship otm tho - just to be safe

http://www.xojane.com/issues/online-harassment-left

This article gives a very personal account of history of extreme daily harrassment and abuse online. The author, S.E. Smith, says that most of this stuff comes from "left wing" types. It includes sending her photos of her own house as an intimidation tactic, like the literal plot of the horror movie Cache. I don't want to sound naive because I knew this was a thing thay happened but daily? The open letter was useful for bringing this stuff to the surface if nothing else. I wish there was more information on exactly who is doing this kind of thing and why. The attackers should have to answer for this. Tbqh its no secret i am a socialist but if i was a woman on the receiving end of this stuff from ppl alleging to be socialists I would probably want fuck all to do with class politics as well. In such a situation, of course you would just try to get as much power for women and other marginalized people as possible, even within an oppressive paradigm.

academic infighting sure is weird

Idk adrian chen found violentacrez. Something similar could be done with the serial twitter dm harassers embedded in the left. I know this is just one component of the overall situation the letter described but it seems like a starting point.

Like i want to know if the ppl sending evil messages and disturbing images are literally michael bruenig or just some insane people just playacting leftists or something else.

Matt bruenig, whatever.

I don't know why you'd think ppl with no self control when they're not anonymous would have /more/ when they are anonymous

Well i am assuming the really evil messages she is getting are from anonymous sources. Like, well know bloggers and organizers dont openly send ppl pics of their house to frighten them do they?

no right i just mean he's clearly a jerk and acts like a dick to ppl when his name is attached. i'm sure he's not a nicer person when shrouded in anonymity.

true

50% of students in American public schools live in poverty.

not the main point of the thread but i do want to point out this isn't actually true

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/majority-of-us-public-school-students-are-in-poverty/2015/01/15/df7171d0-9ce9-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html

depends how you define poverty. 51% of students come from houses whose combined income is low enough to qualify them for federally subsidized free lunches.

i mean, i guess the hellish reality we are moving toward is neoliberal "identity politics" vs. reactionary/populist "class politics", which is also a kind of identity politics insofar as it is based on white resentment

― Treeship

i wouldn't give up hope yet- i think there's some small chance that identitarians' plan to wholly remake the global left by writing lengthy essays critiquing steven moffat's conception of gender may somehow fail to bear fruit.

depends how you define poverty. 51% of students come from houses whose combined income is low enough to qualify them for federally subsidized free lunches.

Right, but poverty has a definition, and that's not it. In fact, by definition, you're eligible for subsidized lunch if your family makes up to 185% of the poverty-line threshold. So however poverty is defined, kids who are doing substantially better than families in poverty are eligible (and that's as it should be, in my opinion.) According to NCES about 22% of public schoolchildren are living in poverty.

http://nces.ed.gov/blogs/nces/post/free-or-reduced-price-lunch-a-proxy-for-poverty

I know it's not the point, the point is that a large percentage of US families (not just those with kids in public school) are so strapped for money that the price of a daily school lunch is a financial burden, I just think things should be called what they are.

yeah the free lunch thing is more about helping ensure kids actually eat decent food instead of cheap garbage iirc

Of course Matt Bruenig don't do that kind of thing. And no one has accused of him of that. What they accuse him of is co-ordinating and legitimising that kind of abuse, since a lot of women notice that if he says something mean about them, they will receive an unusual amount of harassment. Plus, he once admitted to have 'done his part' after a woman got hit by a barrage of abuse (the incident involving the 'twist her tits' tweet)

Who knows how to end it. But perhaps if people took it seriously, and stopped lying about it the way Beijer for instance does, it would be easier to have the conversation.

xp i agree, eephus. i was just hastily borrowing the washington post's language.

The vast majority of attacks on me, from the everpresent doxing to the growing file of threats I've forwarded to the friends who might have a chance to take action if something happens to me, have come from the political left.

see you can't just say this without any proof. why should anyone believe it. the article doesn't even say why this might be the case. or like anything. i've never heard of this person before, and i follow the ironyclown cru on twitter. this is just bad-jacketing

like why would you not actually name a single account or have a single screenshot of a bad actor here. especially if you claim this is from within the "left" and you want people to maybe turn against those bad actors?

What they accuse him of is co-ordinating and legitimising that kind of abuse, since a lot of women notice that if he says something mean about them, they will receive an unusual amount of harassment. Plus, he once admitted to have 'done his part' after a woman got hit by a barrage of abuse (the incident involving the 'twist her tits' tweet)

Who knows how to end it. But perhaps if people took it seriously, and stopped lying about it the way Beijer for instance does, it would be easier to have the conversation.

― Frederik B, Friday, July 15, 2016 2:22 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalinkn

this is such shit and exhausting. do you know what co-ordinating means? it means giving orders or direction. that's not just him being an individual voice. and if he doesn't do it, and says "hey don't do that" how is that legitimising.

i mean the issue here i think is people think its just fine to clown chait for getting salty about twitter criticism as "harassment" but there's a double standard when other people pull the same shit.

I guess the difference here is that what is being alleged is bigoted hate speech. And these people are saying they are receiving these kinds of messages so that they will be intimidated out of criticizing socialists for gender and race blindness. It's very serious. I don't doubt theyre getting such messages but I would like to have more specific information about who is sending these messages and why. Like is it a tactic from socialists or is it just ppl doing it to do it bc they are mras or what?

the whole "i saw this terrible thing and it happens every day but i can't give you evidence because it would bring on more bad things, but I _can_ write at length about it without giving you evidence and that won't bring on bad things" shtick is total nonsense. i mean, that _is_ why people clowned s- j- in the first place, well at first. Then she started organizing people to get accounts banned from twitter because they were clowning her, and things went downhill from there.

I'm a teacher with the summer off, so of course I've wasted a ton of time on social media. and I gotta say, the whole bad boys of socialism shtick is super-corny and tired.

Like, even when I agree with them, the whole atmosphere cultivated by the “big” socialist personalities and their #irony brethren is so noxious that I have no idea how they possibly think they're being effective stewards of their ideas. And it’s super-easy to see what happens when any of them go after one of their favored opponents: dozens of wannabe ironyboys rush in and fill twitter threads with total garbage. I’ve seen it enough times in the past, like, month that I’m inclined to believe that what gets DMed and emailed is worse.

like, the whole idea of "pig poop balls" as a "clapback" is basically the whole thing in a nutshell.

Also they only seem capable of having conversations with exaggerated cartoon versions of their opponents, which I guess is a complaint that can be made of their opponents as well. Leftists always seem to hate other leftists far more than anything else. Endless cycles of purges and recriminations.

What do you call this?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZrt1yfWIAE-j5C.png:large

This is pretty clearly Bruenig admitting to participating in organized harassment involving death threats.

first sentence "I didn't know there were death threats"

Last sentence 'I think she deserves to reckon with that stuff'

Don't you think that's gross?

I read "I think she deserves to reckon with that stuff" as "I think she deserves to reckon with her shitty behavior during 'Jacobinghazi'", so no I don't think that's gross.

You misread. Second to last sentence: 'this just unleashed that stuff'. He's clearly talking about the response. Which involved death threats.

aw man i saw the timestamps on those Bruenig tweets and thought he was back on twitter, thx for getting my hopes up Fred

yeah it's gross but don't overplay it

i suppose its merit comes down to whether you think of jeong's behavior during 'jacobinghazi' -- read by many as justifying the belittling of a rape victim -- as something that had to be 'reckoned with'. breunig thought she did. since he's no longer on twitter i guess he lost.

her account of it is here: https://sarahjeong.net/2016/01/24/jacobinghazi/

i won't claim have a clear map of that whole mess

hopefully we can all agree that freddie's current twitter look is desperate try-hard

No it does not come down to that. It comes down to whether or not you think death threats is an acceptable part of that reckoning. That is what Bruenig is saying. He is saying that the response involved death threats, that he participated in creating it, and that she deserved it.

Like, even when I agree with them, the whole atmosphere cultivated by the “big” socialist personalities and their #irony brethren is so noxious that I have no idea how they possibly think they're being effective stewards of their ideas. And it’s super-easy to see what happens when any of them go after one of their favored opponents: dozens of wannabe ironyboys rush in and fill twitter threads with total garbage. I’ve seen it enough times in the past, like, month that I’m inclined to believe that what gets DMed and emailed is worse.

― intheblanks, Friday, 15 July 2016 19:28 (1 hour ago) Permalink

nailed it

what the fuck is "jacobinghazi"? Some Michelle Malkin thing?

Idk if he endorses it I just think he isn't that concerned because he hates Jeong, like how someone on ilx responds to the news that Trump receives death threats.

Bruenig is a moron anyway -- nothing was more embarrassing than when deboer, greenwald, and the other dorks tried to claim he was fired for "daring to take on clinton" rather than for being a jerk and a PR liability

this is an interesting document to compare with the wearetheleft statement, since it seems to be making the same argument with due specificity and without being cloaked in the claiming-the-left stuff

http://sadydoyle.tumblr.com/post/144839773888/patterns

sady doyle was one of the main authors of the wearetheleft statement, right? She's definitely the one who gets @ed when someone wants their name taken off the list.

She drafted the whole thing I think

That seems to be the CW

Bruenig is a moron anyway -- nothing was more embarrassing than when deboer, greenwald, and the other dorks tried to claim he was fired for "daring to take on clinton" rather than for being a jerk and a PR liability

deboer still fighting that exact fight this very moment

what the fuck is "jacobinghazi"

some jacobin writer linked to a professional drama monger on twitter as an example of how not to treat certain issues w/ casual language and said drama monger predictably made lots of drama. really the details don't matter - what matters is that it came down mostly to a fight between the most hysteric of the identity twitteratis vs the socialism bros. neither side made out particularly well from it but i do think that in that particular case the twitter ppl taking offense made a lot of claims about meaning + intent that were not supported by the obvious facts of the case. and they also came under a lot of abuse that they probably did not deserve despite being dumb + wrong.

freddie blocked me and man i miss hate reading that shit

what the fuck is "jacobinghazi"? Some Michelle Malkin thing?

― Blowout Coombes (President Keyes), Friday, July 15, 2016 3:30 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

feud between different left twitterers, one faction associated with jacobin mag

xp look i wouldn't call one of the parties a 'drama mongerer' (even tho i guess i've already said worse)

i mean she made a very big deal out of a linked tweet that was really not a big deal by any reasonable adult standard.