HBO's adaptation of Game of Thrones - Thread 2. There are a lot of nerds.

Do they show the exact position of the battle and how an army would necessarily approach it though? Is there a google maps of westeros somewhere on the internet?

Hope wouldn't have hurt him, and that's my problem. And yes, morale can win battles. Again, I'm arguing something I don't care about only because people insist it's not an issue, and I want to know why. Why not tell Jon about the offer of an army from littlefinger? And I don't think there's a coherent explanation within the text. I'm happy with an outside explanation (which I think is right) that they did it for the vandal style swoop at the end.

Vandal = gandalf, but doesn't it always?

Is there a google maps of westeros somewhere on the internet?

― human and working on getting beer (longneck), 23. juni 2016 19:46 (25 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, kinda. A bunch of them, actually.

is it on their net site, Serial style? And have they added enough peasants? If so, maybe one of the google map peasants told LF where the battle was? Or maybe he just followed the noise and the crows?

Sansa called LF from the payphone at the Best Buy parking lot

The problem is not finding the battle. The problem is finding Sansa. Who should, logically, be on the other side of the battle from where Littlefinger would be coming.

It's pretty fun that you're baffled by knowledge of geography in a famously detailed fantasy series running thousands of pages long, though.

the thread getting clogged up with ppl who have apparently paid no attention and like deej calling other ppl dumb because he doesn't have a clue himself...i am the real victim here.

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, June 23, 2016 6:37 AM (4 hours ago)

they went around winterfell...

Spiralli otm.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vwC9srXnGHY/T9aIK4GI9VI/AAAAAAAABB4/u_gbZIG0Dqo/s200/sticker,375x360.png

The Ask the Maester guy has a *crazy* knowledge of Westeros etc. geography, there must be maps out there.

I think the nitpicking stems in part relative to the books, which are hyper-detailed to an obsessive degree. So when the show leaves huge, or even moderate, details out, it really invites head scratching. But then, as I've noted before, one of the most fascinating aspects of the whole project (and why I still follow it) is to see how an adaptation of books that have not been written plays out.

But even from the beginning, even before I began to nitpick stupid hobby details, I've had issues with the show's soapiness, which undercuts its drama. At times it's played out as camp, at times it's been unearned pathos, other times it's been really effective. But unlike a show like "The Walking Dead," which has been all shades of shitty under different show runners, with no end in sight, GoT has been erratic under steady leadership, with the direct involvement of the author, who helpfully provided or at least confirmed the arc of his unwritten narrative. Makes poor decisions or uneven episodes/seasons less explicable, except in the most obvious the-books-are-not-the-show sense. And even then, the books and show are bad/uneven/frustrating for opposite reasons: the books are stuffed with details that bog down the forward narrative flow, the show flies by but loses a lot of the details the books are famed for. Different animals, both kinda lame.

there must be maps out there.

http://quartermaester.info/

the show's soapiness, which undercuts its drama

for you maybe.

I have lots or problems with the show, contra Fredrick I don't think it's always well written, I just think certain criticisms make folks seem like the comic book store guy from simpsons

http://0.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com/55/41/e1ec0016ccb150a6a24dd210938a140d.jpg

certain criticisms make folks seem like they couldn't have possibly passed English Lit in highschool.

I was going to make a joke post along the lines of "Good episode but have we talked about why Sansa didn't tell Jon about the Arryn army?" but I see you guys are on top of that well done.

Bingo. Why is it so difficult to imagine LF going straight to camp and meeting up with Sansa there? Because there are maps on the internet?

why Sansa didn't tell Jon about the Arryn army?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPHUZenprKc

I get that it's meant as an insult, but this is a medieval fantasy story with dragons and ice zombies, famous for it's scope and detail. I don't really feel bad for acting like Comic Book Guy around it. It's a nerdy thing, and nerding about it is actually a pretty fun thing. Nerding about the details on the maps, the long history of the show, the parallels with European history. Most of the time it really enriches the experience. This thing with Littlefinger was just crap, though, and I hope and expect that GRRM goes in a completely different direction.

i think it's p obvious to anyone here who watches the show/read the books that it's poorly written because grrm is not really a v good writer. but it's not poorly written because we don't know the logistics of lf moving around winterfell

Man, even Rob Bricken has a better handle on this than Fred does. That's . . . man oh man. Sad!

http://io9.gizmodo.com/why-didn-t-sansa-tell-jon-snow-about-littlefinger-s-arm-1782494488

that gizmodo dude is otm because guys i already answered this --- sansa didn't tell jon because she wasn't sure they were coming, and they showed up at the last minute because that's what LF wanted

yeah and now Jon and Sansa have an army of ten wildings and Davos and a twelve year old girl and littlefinger has the best army in the north, with minimal casualties.

do we know that the 12 year old girl survived?

All this debate is actually getting me more excited for the finale.

And unlike Stannis, who ALSO saved Jon from getting a good old-fashioned ass-whuppin', LF isn't about to charge off and get himself killed.

Littlefinger does not command the armies of the Vale. Robin Arryn does.

He's the puppet master. What's the difference?

well, the only difference is that robin could do something rash that foils lf's plan

Sure, but as far as things are going at the moment, I'm not sure what point Fred is getting at.

That the Vale army has no loyalty to Littlefinger. He can't just use it whatever way he likes.

Oh, however will he find a way to manipulate the powerful 12-year-old Lord of the Vale into getting what he wants?

As far as criticisms coming from folk who wouldn't pass highschool English goes, I have a degree in English and my criticism is strwightforward: sansa's actions do not match her characters motivation, which is in contradiction to everything about the show (which is about motives, aims, ambitions to some extent). If people want to say she 'just didn't' that's fine, if they want to say she didn't to help the show dramatically, that's fine. Bu if they want to claim that it matches her motivations they need to explain why.

He's the puppet master. What's the difference?

― Evan, Friday, 24 June 2016 02:57 (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2otVBGcG1kw

xp -- that post wasn't directed at your posts.

How did they know he would materialize correctly and suddenly take control of the entire song and dance? Too convenient.

xp to dowd.

Manipulate Robin Arryn against his cousin Sansa Stark, who he also has a giant crush on? If that's Littlefingers plan, it's a horrible one.

Also, the books are actually translated to Danish, guys, and there's subtitles to the show. No need to pass an English high school course. It's a pretty ridiculous point to make. It's even more insane with this show, which is based on European history... I studied feudalism in high school, did you?

so wait, the heir to the iron throne, jon stark-targaryen, is going to marry his first cousin, sansa arryn-stark-lannister-bolton, the queen of the north, in time to defend westeros from his other first cousin (aunt?), danaerys targaryen-targaryen, and her dothraki and greyjoy sidekicks . . . and cousin/wife's ex-husband, tyrion? am i getting that right?

Oh, sorry, sarahell. Maybe overly defensive (about what? a minor plot point in a tv show!? Beats arguingabout the referendum, I guess).

I thought LF's plan was to either marry Sansa or hand her head over to Cersei? Both plans would get him the north.

sansa's actions do not match her characters motivation, which is in contradiction to everything about the show

I agree they haven't done an entirely convincing job with this but they have been setting up Sansa's distrust of Jon in nearly every scene they share this season. She has clearly been transformed by her experiences and rightly sees Jon as a Ned Stark Jr. who will stick to the old ways and get himself and everyone else killed. Her motivation was to be the one who defeated Ramsey and killed him. Jon was her tool for that job, but she needed a back-up.

But even if she distrusts him, for this battle their interests are identical, I think. It's not to her benefit for Jon to lose here.

her interest is in Jon not fucking things up by rejecting LF's help for reasons of honor.

Anyway, giving up here. I'm still really enjoying the show and I hope it continues. Could do with more odd couple adventuring.

Frederik B - do you read the books in Danish and use the subtitles?

Can dowd and frederik read the gizmodo piece one more time plz before repeating their bad opinions thnx

Lol, the gizmodo piece is crap.

RAG, I mostly use subtitles, have read most of the book series in English. But are you fucking kidding me? Are you suggesting I can't discuss a show in English because I'm a foreigner?