HBO's adaptation of Game of Thrones - Thread 2. There are a lot of nerds.

I'm guessing the little girl ruler who sent her knights to help Sansa is going to have some questions...

Could you explicitly state it? Why wouldn't she tl Jon?

― inside, skeletons are always inside, that's obvious. (dowd), Monday, June 20, 2016 11:50 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Do you have Joe killfiled or something?

theons sisters not a lesbian she doesnt really like labels like that shes just attracted to people you know

badly written

― goole, Monday, June 20, 2016 11:50 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Lots of parts are but sometimes ppl are just dumb

Jon cares about this army, and Sansa knows this. Sansa knows Jon won't betray her (again, I'll stress that this is t a big deal to me, it was just written to get the deus ex finger at the end, which was great)

theons sisters not a lesbian she doesnt really like labels like that shes just attracted to people you know

she is a bit like thormund except i think his sexuality is supposed to be linked with a low iq

Jon cares about this army, and Sansa knows this. Sansa knows Jon won't betray her (again, I'll stress that this is t a big deal to me, it was just written to get the deus ex finger at the end, which was great)

― inside, skeletons are always inside, that's obvious. (dowd), Monday, June 20, 2016 11:54 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"It was written so the plot would happen" is the story of everything ever. I'm just saying that it doesn't require much suspension of disbelief bc their motivations were clearly spelled out in a way that isn't contradictory

I think it was contradictory - Sansa was willing to risk the life or her and her brothers, and the north, for something. That strikes me as contradictory to her character. As would jon refusing littlefinger's help, when he was willing to make lots of concessions to build his army. I don't know what motivation people refer to that supercedes everything.

seems like littlefingers/starks best move is for the starks to bend the knee to the lanisters and bide their time

we're definitely supposed to leave that episode thinking that sansa is more wise than jon. i.e. with the whole rickon thing, she tells jon that ramsay just wants to make him do something stupid, and lo and behold by shooting rickon with an arrow he goads jon into storming his entire army alone, a suicide mission that would have resulted in the ultimate and permanent end of the stark name.

further the scene where she warns him against being provoked by ramsay tells us that she distrusts him, and further trusts her own judgement more than she trusts his, so the idea that she wouldn't inform him of a maneuver such as calling on littlefinger for help is completely in line w/ what happens previously in the episode.............

except it is a giant fucking gamble that could get everyone killed, and does in fact get thousands of ppl killed unnecessarily?

I understand why it would be a secret initially, everyone does, yes. Though the night before the battle, when they're desperate and the request for help was long since sent, there's nothing to lose by telling Jon to consider the possibility of Vale intervention in the short term. At that point he is mad at her but he's got bigger things to worry about and possible-Vale is a pretty significant detail to account for when strategizing.

I didn't mean this to turn into a big discussion.

― Evan, Monday, June 20, 2016 11:36 AM (3 minutes a

But if she doesn't know if he's coming or not what purpose does this serve? To get jon's hopes up?

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, June 20, 2016 12:42 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Jon could try to buy some time to see if they arrive. Instead he though he was totally out of options.

something about the weird little leaps of logic (maybe that's too strong a term, really) or just the way that characters routinely act in service to the plot rather than any sense of their own motivations or intelligence, really drives me batty with this show (as much as i enjoy it.

case in point: ramsay having a totally clean shot at jon (after having proven he can take down a running man at 100 yds!) but deciding to take down the already dying giant because...well i guess just to remind us he's evil. and sure you can justify this any number of ways (ramsay being somewhat a showman, for instance) but in that moment it's just....stupid.

except it is a giant fucking gamble that could get everyone killed, and does in fact get thousands of ppl killed unnecessarily?

― Roberto Spiralli, Monday, June 20, 2016 12:09 PM (21 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This entire situation is a gamble that could get everyone killed no matter the decision she makes...

this show make a lot more sense once you realize its... stupid

something about the weird little leaps of logic (maybe that's too strong a term, really) or just the way that characters routinely act in service to the plot rather than any sense of their own motivations or intelligence, really drives me batty with this show (as much as i enjoy it.

case in point: ramsay having a totally clean shot at jon (after having proven he can take down a running man at 100 yds!) but deciding to take down the already dying giant because...well i guess just to remind us he's evil. and sure you can justify this any number of ways (ramsay being somewhat a showman, for instance) but in that moment it's just....stupid.

― ryan, Monday, June 20, 2016 1:12 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

i mean.... please remember this is a television show and not something that actually happened!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if you can't remember that you're watching a television show

http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.158316898.2338/flat,800x800,070,f.jpg

but it's so easy to make that scene SO MUCH BETTER why not do it!?

something about the weird little leaps of logic (maybe that's too strong a term, really) or just the way that characters routinely act in service to the plot rather than any sense of their own motivations or intelligence, really drives me batty with this show (as much as i enjoy it.

case in point: ramsay having a totally clean shot at jon (after having proven he can take down a running man at 100 yds!) but deciding to take down the already dying giant because...well i guess just to remind us he's evil. and sure you can justify this any number of ways (ramsay being somewhat a showman, for instance) but in that moment it's just....stupid.

― ryan, Monday, June 20, 2016 12:12 PM (26 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is a good example of the kind of nitpicking I can't stand where you're like, give the show some credit. There are about a million reasons why shooting a giant in the eye to take him down could be the smarter choice. I don't need them to telegraph rationalizations of literally every decision made in the show or make sure that we can see his shot of Jon is obstructed or have someone laboriously explain that he was just going off instinct or whatever other completely reasonable explanation would make it ok that a character did one thing instead of another

It's drama - no one just gets killed obv with the normal hack and slash of battle, it's always a meeting of Heros (especially in the ancient). It's hard to imagine in reality Ramsay wouldn't have been killed by then, but it makes sense dramatically.

i mean.... please remember this is a television show and not something that actually happened!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― J0rdan S., Monday, June 20, 2016 1:14 PM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah actual reality makes far less sense

if u guys want to get into some real deep ingenius medieval politics check out wolf hall instead of this trash for lonely teens

This is a good example of the kind of nitpicking I can't stand where you're like, give the show some credit

no, i agree. and you're right. and im not usually like this! im the one usually defending this stuff from the overthinkers and nitpickers. but this show somehow piles it on and it feels like cheap "dramatic" moments without actual interesting drama.

here are about a million reasons why shooting a giant in the eye to take him down could be the smarter choice.

lol yeah i think personally i'd try and kill the thing that i just watched pick my solders up off the group and rip their heads off

I really hope what I'm arguing upthread isn't "overthinking". I mean I concluded it was probably for the sake of extra drama and surprise for the audience, and I was bringing it up so someone perhaps could make clear a character motivation I hadn't yet considered.

attacking any one moment sort of sends us into a black hole of speculation so i'll just say im not convinced and leave it at that.

my more general complaint is that this show seems to start with big set pieces in mind and then works backwards to engineer the characters into those situations. that can certainly work i suppose but i think think the show too often evacuates those moments of any dramatic weight because they feel so transparently engineered.

ugh i cant help it: they made a point to show that the giant was not a threat anymore, not charging ramsay, not doing anything but slowly dying. this is why ramsay killing him is a "moment," it's needless. that's the whole point of that scene.

banning self from thread now.

Well the shooting the giant and not Jon thing can probably be explained by Ramsey wanting to fuck with Jon a little more before killing him. He's not the kind of guy that takes pleasure in killing someone that doesn't know he's the one doing it.

Is that a satisfying reason? I mean that's how I read it.

Yup - at least fall on the guy as you die. But that's not how drama works. Most of these problems come from an increasing desire for realism combined with the normal ideas of drama.

also doubt jon would have just let himself get shot by ramsay's arrow.......

He wasn't looking. Ryan is talking about the arrow that went through Wun Wun's eye.

So, changing topics, was he meant to be the last of the giants?

Yeah... right? Isn't he the very last one?

last one

it stretched the logic of the show for me that the giant would care enough about who owns the north to sacrifice himself for winterfell but it was a nice scene

That's a shame. It's been a while since I read the books, but was this echoed there? I'm not sure i remember the giants as individuals.

I thought the giant was about to restart (and yes, I would like to see him next episode with an eyepatch. Too bad there weren't a few more giants left.

btw sansa w some good insight into sociopathy taunting ramses that hes gonna be totally forgotten

i'm also anti-nitpicking but ramsay not taking down jon when he had the opportunity annoyed me a bit too. i figure it's okay to complain a bit when a show takes you out of things by seeming to defy its own hodge-podge logic

Haha the giant is definitely dead. Now it's just man and some dragons vs. Agent Smith the Night King and his army

That smile was maybe not good though - we don't mind people doing terrible things as long as they don't enjoy it.

ramsay shooting the giant and not jon is totally within the realm of his character imo, i mean remember he had theon and then let him escape so he could continue to fuck with him. i think he knew the game was up and just wanted to get his torture licks in while he could. idk.

i'm also anti-nitpicking but ramsay not taking down jon when he had the opportunity annoyed me a bit too. i figure it's okay to complain a bit when a show takes you out of things by seeming to defy its own hodge-podge logic

― lazy rascals, spending their substance, and more, in riotous living (Merdeyeux), Monday, June 20, 2016 1:43 PM (6 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Nobody likes my it's-no-fun-for-Ramsay-that-way explanation? Jon wouldn't have known who shot him...

xpost exactly

i think he knew the game was up and just wanted to get his torture licks in while he could. idk.

― nomar, Monday, June 20, 2016 1:44 PM (39 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah he was waiting for the formal one on one w jon! he even declared as much cmon folks!

yeh i mean i don't even necessarily disagree with these defences, it just threw me off a bit

I think it's plausible you'd still be scared the giant was going to survive.

What happens to Sansa's second name now? She a Stark again?

Ramsay has always seemed like a coward, too. Whether his sadism or his cowardice is more dominant I have no idea.
I suspect most sadism is tied to fear/cowardice.