HBO's adaptation of Game of Thrones - Thread 2. There are a lot of nerds.

But things were already in motion. She sent the message. In the short term he was probably not going to send an emergency raven to tell him "never mind". I mean he would have already been on the road at that point. So given he couldn't do anything about it he would have probably taken that into account during the planning phase of the battle, being desperate to begin with.

I think before a battle he felt he was going to lose he would have taken that help. To lose might mean Sansa back wher she was, or dead. The consequences of the battle at one thing, but you have to win the battle first. If he would turn down littlefinger's help it's hard to see how he could rule.

Refusing to work with people who have wronged his family would be disastrous.

zzzzz

Rude!

hah anyway you might disagree with her reasoning and be a better military strategist than sansa but her motivation was p well spelled out

Sure. It just seems like those motivations at minor compared to the fate of the people, her family etc.

(Which is presumably why she sent the message in he first place. Mao the question becomes 'why not directly tell Jon by he should wait another day'?)

I'm making people work very hard to interpret my posts, atm.

she prob didnt make the most optimal decisions but sometimes ppl do that

this triumphant ep for the good guys is the perfect set up for sansas realization next week that nothing has changed shes just under little fingers thumb now

There's nothing suggesting that she knew LF was actually coming, and there's no clear reason why she wouldn't tell Jon that he might. It being a secret appears to be for the sake of surprise for the audience alone.

oh gosh u guys

wonder if littlefingers thinking abt conquering the 7 kingdoms now or later

Sure, that's okay. It's just that these shows encourage you to trace intention and aims to such an extent that missteps become odd (this is arguably a criticism of all drama).

to the extent that the show has any verisimilitude its that its populated by ppl making bad decisions, but generally its pretty dumb its political machinations are laughable and so forth

in addition to whatever happens with sansa and pete, the iron throne currently has an army on the north's southern border. looked like jamie was hanging out with the freys in the preview, which is en route. for as much as getting to this point was kinda meh, a very interesting situation has been arrived at.

and helping the starks win is pete's first overt move against the iron throne

Right- I don't want to give the idea that it's a big deal. There was a moment where I wondered 'why doesn't Jon know the army is turning up?' Because I did. And someone lose mentioned it. It doesn't affect the story much, and it's not difficult to reconcile. It just struck me as odd, is all.

if littlefinger plays it cool hes still an ally to the iron throne and their appointed warden of the north seems unlikely hell just up and attack jamie, not his style no, i mean i guess if its seen as him helping the starks it wld piss off the lanisters but if he can play it off as just him being a boss its maybe fine

he just helped the enemy stark house kill (successor of) the appointed warden in the north. if he can wiggle out of this one it'll be his finest wiggle to date.

no man cersi gave him the go ahead to kill ramses dont u remember she said he cld be warden if he did it

of course the reason she did it was cause ramses married sansa so ya his association w the starks is a problem

How on earth was this episode "fan service"? They'd obviously set Ramsey up for a brutal demise from the moment he first appeared on screen, and likely Sansa would be there from the moment he first started torturing her.

The episode came close to showing the reality of these battles - the piles of bodies maybe a little exaggerated, but snows's suffocation struck me as true. Most of these TV battles (and this one too, to some extent) maintain the idea of a battle front between two armies where people swordfight. Th reality was probably more like being crushed in a crowd at a concert. The front lines wee smooshed on each other and their weapons by the weight of peopl behind. Something of Thorpe of that was captured in jon's burial, even if is somewhat absurd to imagine someon struggling to the top of that.

oh gosh u guys

― lag∞n, Monday, June 20, 2016 12:00 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I was just trying to figure out Sansa's motivation to keep quiet on that point, I'm not complaining or anything. Curiosity.

Also her motivation for not telling her brother that she'd reached out to little finger seemed perfectly clear imho

What was he motivation for that? (Honestly)

if we really want to talk abt something that doesnt make sense how u get a 15ft high pile of bodies

also the phalanx surrounding them w/o any opposistion

but i dont care

Also her motivation for not telling her brother that she'd reached out to little finger seemed perfectly clear imho

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, June 20, 2016 12:20 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Not so much the night before their almost certain defeat and inability to un-ask LF for help. Might as well roll with it. What's done is done.

If it's revealed next episode that she was just trying to save face and pretend the Vale wasn't coming because she asked then that could be an interesting character flaw for her.

fwiw smaller forces defeating larger was p common in the olden days

the guy who sold his sister into sexual slavery, part of the government that beheaded his father etc, have u seen the show

― lag∞n, Monday, June 20, 2016 10:41 AM (46 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

also just a well know crooked bastard u dont want to associate with

― lag∞n, Monday, June 20, 2016 10:42 AM (45 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

for instance now he is the starks boss

― lag∞n, Monday, June 20, 2016 10:42 AM (45 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

also cld add sansa prob felt personally humiliated by having to ask him for help

You are all insane for not understanding this

Yeah, but but the losses were much smaller in real medieval battles, weren't they? Yeah, watching the army surround them was annoying, especially hen you have a giant. But that's okay.

X-posts

there were some p huge battles in medieval times what w all yr various empires and so forth

if only the Holy Roman Empire had dragons

I just finished a history of the thirty years war and was helplessly making game of thrones analogies the entire time I was reading it.

Yeah, I just thought the deathrate for medieval battle was relatively small - like, 5-10%. I'm to sure I can justify this idea, though - may be a misunderstood or misremembered thing.

if only the Holy Roman Empire had dragons

― ryan, Monday, June 20, 2016 12:34 PM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wonder what charlemagne wldve called his

that cld be generally true while still allowing for some utter massacres xp

You are all insane for not understanding this

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, June 20, 2016 12:30 PM (31 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I understand why it would be a secret initially, everyone does, yes. Though the night before the battle, when they're desperate and the request for help was long since sent, there's nothing to lose by telling Jon to consider the possibility of Vale intervention in the short term. At that point he is mad at her but he's got bigger things to worry about and possible-Vale is a pretty significant detail to account for when strategizing.

I didn't mean this to turn into a big discussion.

civilian populations were often slaughtered post-battle by marauding soldiers. it's pretty grim. there doesn't seem to be any civilians at winterfell tho.

pretty dismayed by the existence of littlefinger. my brother and I had for so long planned to start a nu metal band called nannyfinger, and that name isn't cool and/or original sounding now.

Also, all of the Sansa justifications seem to involve her considering her own shame etc more important than her life, jon's,
Her house, her people etc. She seems to have told Jon what happened when she was married, and Jon seems fairly realpolitik about th batte. It's just that my prior idea of her character would have told Jon, and I'm not sure what motivations I'm missing.

she just wanted to prove that she could make crucial moves during wartime on her own!! what is wrong w/ you ppl