Electing a Democrat in November who will nominate judges and justices will help.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 June 2016 20:10 (seven years ago) link
that too. the prospect of having a SC that strikes down prevailing interpretation becomes more likely.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 13 June 2016 20:13 (seven years ago) link
amateurist and Alfred otm
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Monday, 13 June 2016 20:18 (seven years ago) link
http://dealbreaker.com/uploads/2010/06/animated-siren-gif-animated-siren-gif-animated-siren-gif-drudge-report.gifBREAKINGhttp://dealbreaker.com/uploads/2010/06/animated-siren-gif-animated-siren-gif-animated-siren-gif-drudge-report.gif
Kim Kardashian calls for stricter gun control after Orlando shooting
― (•̪●) (carne asada), Monday, 13 June 2016 20:20 (seven years ago) link
aw that's cute
― Οὖτις, Monday, 13 June 2016 20:27 (seven years ago) link
This, from the article posted in another thread, seems key:
From 1888, when law review articles first were indexed, through 1959, every single one on the Second Amendment concluded it did not guarantee an individual right to a gun. The first to argue otherwise, written by a William and Mary law student named Stuart R. Hays, appeared in 1960. He began by citing an article in the NRA’s American Rifleman magazine and argued that the amendment enforced a “right of revolution,” of which the Southern states availed themselves during what the author called “The War Between the States.”
The NRA, and the changing of the meaning of the 2nd amendment, culminating in Heller, is from it's inception tied to confederate revisionism, and, basically, ultra right-wing racism.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 09:01 (seven years ago) link
it's not just the NRA--they're just the most visible group. there are a bunch of other groups exerting pressure on both right-wing legislators /and/ the NRA itself.
― wizzz! (amateurist), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 09:06 (seven years ago) link
The five justices in the Heller majority were all nominated by presidents who themselves were NRA members.
― jmm, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 13:11 (seven years ago) link
Such a weird coincidence.
― Manspread Mann (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 13:21 (seven years ago) link
Amateurist, that's kinda what I mean. I think that the fight against guns needs to focus on how much the pro-gun movement is intertwined with ultra-right wing racism. Focusing on the NRA turns it into a question for and against guns. The National Rifle Association likes rifles, we don't, but that's an honest disagreement. I think a good strategy would focus on how much the reason the NRA likes rifles is due to racism. Which seems pretty clear from the way the movement began, I think.
It's just a suggestion :)
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 16:24 (seven years ago) link
how much the pro-gun movement is intertwined with ultra-right wing racism
I have never been to a more multi-generational, multi-cultural event than an NRA-sponsored gun show fwiw. Every demo (men, women, rich, poor, black white brown purple lol) well represented.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 16:28 (seven years ago) link
Folks from every walk of life coming together in their shared vision of a world where every man, woman, and child has the opportunity to accidentally shoot a stranger in the face.
― Manspread Mann (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 16:37 (seven years ago) link
Or possibly even a loved one! Dare to dream!
― Manspread Mann (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 16:38 (seven years ago) link
it's true! It was deeply disorienting.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 16:39 (seven years ago) link
and everyone so excited to be there
I think a good strategy would focus on how much the reason the NRA likes rifles is due to racism. Which seems pretty clear from the way the movement began, I think.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, June 15, 2016 9:24 AM (14 minutes ago)
makes about as much sense as the attempts to paint planned parenthood as fundamentally racist. intellectually dubious but politically expedient.
― oculus lump (contenderizer), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 16:46 (seven years ago) link
Frederik hasn't found an American political issue yet which can't be solved by acknowledging America's inherent racism
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 16:59 (seven years ago) link
some good news
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/sen-chris-murphy-starts-talking-filibuster-over-gun-control-224369
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 17:00 (seven years ago) link
Was just about to post that!
― a 47-year-old chainsaw artist from South Carolina (Phil D.), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 17:17 (seven years ago) link
I emailed my Senators to support the filibuster - this has long been one of DiFi's pet issues so maybe she'll do it, much as I dislike her.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 17:22 (seven years ago) link
The terror watch list aspect of that is a really bad idea unless they completely overhaul the watch list.
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 17:23 (seven years ago) link
I'm cool with restricting everybody's access to guns, so doesn't bother me a bit
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 17:24 (seven years ago) link
are you seriously worried that someone badly needing a gun that is erroneously on a watch list is a significant problem because I am not
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 17:25 (seven years ago) link
@jeremyscahillWhen HRC and Obama try to link gun sales and the terror watchlist, that is politics--plain and simple. It is just a talking point w no teeth
― we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 17:27 (seven years ago) link
Restrict anything deemed a "right" based on an arbitrary lost with no due process whatsoever and you open the door to same for other rights.
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 17:28 (seven years ago) link
Also agree with scahill. Pure grandstanding.
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 17:29 (seven years ago) link
the no-fly list ban works as a metaphor. the republicans are so psychotically committed to gun ownership for all that it even takes precedence over their scaremongering about terrorism. in terms of useful policy it seems like reviving the assault weapon ban is a more likely progression at this pt.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 17:35 (seven years ago) link
that's how it's felt after every major shooting in the past several years. and yet...
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 15 June 2016 18:07 (seven years ago) link
I understand the rhetorical value but I dislike that kind of rhetorical bluffing. Maybe I'd be bad at politics for that reason.
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 18:07 (seven years ago) link
It's also a potential example of democrats inadvertently ceding the center. I mean that happened a long time ago with "terrorism" rhetoric, but still not a good thing.
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 18:09 (seven years ago) link
What's the Luntz quote about how when you use my terms I win?
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Wednesday, June 15, 2016 1:28 PM (56 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
^^ my fear too. Like I said yesterday, SCOTUS has said owning a handgun is a protected right. It would need an act of Congress amending it or SCOTUS to say otherwise. Elect Democrats to Congress and the White House if you want to make headway.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 18:26 (seven years ago) link
Not to mention you are kind of validating the "terror watch list" as a meaningful thing rather than just a crude investigatory tool.
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 18:28 (seven years ago) link
What if we restricted access to guns based on a "communism watch list"?
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 18:30 (seven years ago) link
"SCOTUS has said owning a handgun is a protected right."
it doesn't say how many though, right? how about just one!
― scott seward, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 18:34 (seven years ago) link
i guess i just don't get why the right to own a gun has to mean a right to own ALL the guns.
"About three out of four household property crimes involving stolen firearms occurred in households headed by white non-Hispanic persons.From 2005 through 2010, the majority of household burglaries (56 percent) or other property crimes (59 percent) involving stolen firearms occurred in the South."
"About 1.4 million firearms were stolen during household burglaries and other property crimes over the six-year period from 2005 through 2010, according to a report released today by the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS)."
at the very least, white southerners should be banned from owning guns because they apparently can't hide them well enough.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 18:37 (seven years ago) link
i'm kidding. don't shoot me, white southerners!
― scott seward, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 18:38 (seven years ago) link
ok you guys have convinced me
xp
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 18:38 (seven years ago) link
Careful, them's shootin' words.
― a 47-year-old chainsaw artist from South Carolina (Phil D.), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 18:39 (seven years ago) link
whoa, I persuaded someone on the internet, crazy
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 18:40 (seven years ago) link
I am susceptible to well-reasoned arguments based in precedent and evidence, unlike most of the American public
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 18:43 (seven years ago) link
You're a flip flopper, is what you are! Socialist!
― Manspread Mann (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 18:44 (seven years ago) link
This Maddow segment goes into the possibility that the FBI could at least receive a special alert when someone who is or was on the terrorist watch list tries to buy a gun. They might then be able to check in on the person and see if there's been any other recent change in their patterns. I don't know if this happens to any extent already.
― jmm, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 18:52 (seven years ago) link
white house fact sheet has stuff on it. about things that would be good maybe. if you haven't read it. and if you want to see thru the eyes of a helpless president.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/01/04/fact-sheet-new-executive-actions-reduce-gun-violence-and-make-our
― scott seward, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 18:57 (seven years ago) link
― jmm, Wednesday, June 15, 2016 1:52 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This seems like less of a bad idea. I'm sure someone would raise a privacy challenge, but I think it would be easier to argue that there's a compelling reason for having the system, the burden is minimal, etc.
Right now I have no idea what kind of infrastructure is in place -- is there any kind of national or even state system that tracks who is buying guns/notified law enforcement when certain individuals buy guns?
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 19:02 (seven years ago) link
the answer to that last question is on the fact sheet.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 19:06 (seven years ago) link
killer loophole by the way:
"The National Firearms Act imposes restrictions on sales of some of the most dangerous weapons, such as machine guns and sawed-off shotguns. But because of outdated regulations, individuals have been able to avoid the background check requirement by applying to acquire these firearms and other items through trusts, corporations, and other legal entities. In fact, the number of these applications has increased significantly over the years—from fewer than 900 applications in the year 2000 to more than 90,000 applications in 2014."
― scott seward, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 19:10 (seven years ago) link
Everything seems to be in order here. Carry on.
― Manspread Mann (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 19:34 (seven years ago) link
Good reminder that we also need reform of LLC anonymity.
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 19:40 (seven years ago) link