what are the ramifications of this (assuming it is upheld on appeal)?
― Mordy, Thursday, June 9, 2016 1:23 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I don't think they're that significant, necessarily, except in the sense of maybe halting or slowing a further progression toward expanded gun rights.
But first of all Supreme Court appeals are not as of right, they have to take cert (i.e. you have to petition them to take the case and they have to decide to hear it). When they don't hear a case, the decision stands as the law within that circuit but doesn't bind other circuits.
If the Supreme Court takes cert and holds that the decision is broadly correct, it looks like that would simply mean that things remain as they are, i.e. states are permitted to have laws restricting or banning concealed carry of firearms. There's only a real change in the state of things if (1) the Supreme Court takes cert AND (2) the Supreme Court reverses and holds that concealed carry bans or restrictions somehow violate the second amendment (or that they do in certain circumstances).
I think that's correct, anyway, I didn't do a careful read of the opinion or survey other recent cases.
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Thursday, 9 June 2016 18:32 (seven years ago) link
Are there circuits that have held that concealed carry restrictions are unconstitutional? There's usually a much greater chance of cert being taken if there is a "circuit split," i.e. a conflict in the interpretation of law between two circuits.
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Thursday, 9 June 2016 18:33 (seven years ago) link
yeah this is good but I'm not sure it's a big deal
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 9 June 2016 18:33 (seven years ago) link
xps There are dozens of states that would never dream of limiting concealed carry, or letting cities within that state limit cc either. Still, it is a rare loss for the NRA.
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Thursday, 9 June 2016 18:34 (seven years ago) link
Of course there are, but this decision has no impact on those states. The NRA only "lost" inasmuch as it didn't gain.
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Thursday, 9 June 2016 18:37 (seven years ago) link
I guess it's good inasmuch as *maybe* it will discourage challenges in other circuits. But I doubt it, especially since the 9th is on the liberal end.
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Thursday, 9 June 2016 19:02 (seven years ago) link
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/06/11/the-voice-singer-christina-grimmie-is-critical-condition-after-gunmans-attack/?utm_term=.cc82559be512
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 11 June 2016 14:52 (seven years ago) link
article limits are why people don't bother to read news outside of facebook anymore
― Nhex, Sunday, 12 June 2016 00:06 (seven years ago) link
Ugh, sorry about that. Heard about this from my daughter. Some finalist from some season of the Voice reportedly shot dead at a fan meet and greet by a dude packing multiple weapons.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 12 June 2016 02:13 (seven years ago) link
not blaming you, just the dying media
― Nhex, Sunday, 12 June 2016 02:39 (seven years ago) link
hurry up on this imo
― nomar, Sunday, 12 June 2016 12:46 (seven years ago) link
Bump
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 12 June 2016 13:20 (seven years ago) link
nra terrorists kill another fifty. fuck guns so much.
― wmlynch, Sunday, 12 June 2016 17:59 (seven years ago) link
Or, you know, you could just do what Bernie Sanders doesn't want to do and put the industry out of business
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-gun-control_us_56dcea34e4b0000de405063a
― normcore strengthening exercises (benbbag), Sunday, 12 June 2016 18:01 (seven years ago) link
shut the fuck up
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 12 June 2016 18:07 (seven years ago) link
eat my ass
― normcore strengthening exercises (benbbag), Sunday, 12 June 2016 18:07 (seven years ago) link
But don't let me stop you from trying to accomplish something that will never happen in the alternative to something that could
― normcore strengthening exercises (benbbag), Sunday, 12 June 2016 18:11 (seven years ago) link
Stay classy, gun owners of Facebook...
https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13442118_1060458774037036_5720019541464103867_n.jpg?oh=30dd73984cae0c6f686c7c33bfa22b88&oe=57CABD48
― Now I Know How Joan of Arcadia Felt (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 12 June 2016 19:08 (seven years ago) link
that is genuinely fucking sickening
― Trump is dong (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 12 June 2016 19:11 (seven years ago) link
no more sickening than "gun rights" themselves, but yeah.
― wizzz! (amateurist), Sunday, 12 June 2016 19:12 (seven years ago) link
might be time to institute a reading comprehension test in order to vote. our "conservative" friends can never seem to understand that "well-regulated militia" part of the second amendment, even though it starts the whole thing, no matter what anyone tells them
― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 12 June 2016 19:13 (seven years ago) link
that's a really dumb idea, and it wouldn't work the way you want it to anyway
― wizzz! (amateurist), Sunday, 12 June 2016 19:15 (seven years ago) link
you might also google this thing called "jim crow"
This may have been posted previously but I just saw it today and it seems like a pertinent thing: http://www.thenation.com/article/how-the-roberts-court-undermined-sensible-gun-control/
― Manspread Mann (Old Lunch), Sunday, 12 June 2016 19:41 (seven years ago) link
― normcore strengthening exercises (benbbag), Sunday, June 12, 2016 1:01 PM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you realize that merely getting rid of an immunity provision would not mean that anyone would actually succeed in these lawsuits, right? I'm sure you actually do understand that if you graduated from an accredited law school.
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Monday, 13 June 2016 02:33 (seven years ago) link
it was the one that advertised in the back of TV Guide
― we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 June 2016 02:38 (seven years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkzE0-pWEAE26zj.jpg:large
RT h/t to lagoon
― 6 god none the richer (m bison), Monday, 13 June 2016 02:53 (seven years ago) link
best-case scenario out of recent tragedy imo is some hugely wealthy LGBT political activists start bankrolling legal challenges to shitty gun laws, challenge the NRA etc.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 13 June 2016 15:32 (seven years ago) link
lookin at you Peter Thiel
(lol not really)
― Οὖτις, Monday, 13 June 2016 15:33 (seven years ago) link
they should be bankrolling legal scholars and judges who can revise the reigning interpretation of the 2nd amendment, that is ultimately the strongest hope for long-term change on this.
― wizzz! (amateurist), Monday, 13 June 2016 20:00 (seven years ago) link
yup
― Οὖτις, Monday, 13 June 2016 20:09 (seven years ago) link
Electing a Democrat in November who will nominate judges and justices will help.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 June 2016 20:10 (seven years ago) link
that too. the prospect of having a SC that strikes down prevailing interpretation becomes more likely.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 13 June 2016 20:13 (seven years ago) link
amateurist and Alfred otm
― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Monday, 13 June 2016 20:18 (seven years ago) link
http://dealbreaker.com/uploads/2010/06/animated-siren-gif-animated-siren-gif-animated-siren-gif-drudge-report.gifBREAKINGhttp://dealbreaker.com/uploads/2010/06/animated-siren-gif-animated-siren-gif-animated-siren-gif-drudge-report.gif
Kim Kardashian calls for stricter gun control after Orlando shooting
― (•̪●) (carne asada), Monday, 13 June 2016 20:20 (seven years ago) link
aw that's cute
― Οὖτις, Monday, 13 June 2016 20:27 (seven years ago) link
This, from the article posted in another thread, seems key:
From 1888, when law review articles first were indexed, through 1959, every single one on the Second Amendment concluded it did not guarantee an individual right to a gun. The first to argue otherwise, written by a William and Mary law student named Stuart R. Hays, appeared in 1960. He began by citing an article in the NRA’s American Rifleman magazine and argued that the amendment enforced a “right of revolution,” of which the Southern states availed themselves during what the author called “The War Between the States.”
The NRA, and the changing of the meaning of the 2nd amendment, culminating in Heller, is from it's inception tied to confederate revisionism, and, basically, ultra right-wing racism.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 09:01 (seven years ago) link
it's not just the NRA--they're just the most visible group. there are a bunch of other groups exerting pressure on both right-wing legislators /and/ the NRA itself.
― wizzz! (amateurist), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 09:06 (seven years ago) link
The five justices in the Heller majority were all nominated by presidents who themselves were NRA members.
― jmm, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 13:11 (seven years ago) link
Such a weird coincidence.
― Manspread Mann (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 13:21 (seven years ago) link
Amateurist, that's kinda what I mean. I think that the fight against guns needs to focus on how much the pro-gun movement is intertwined with ultra-right wing racism. Focusing on the NRA turns it into a question for and against guns. The National Rifle Association likes rifles, we don't, but that's an honest disagreement. I think a good strategy would focus on how much the reason the NRA likes rifles is due to racism. Which seems pretty clear from the way the movement began, I think.
It's just a suggestion :)
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 16:24 (seven years ago) link
how much the pro-gun movement is intertwined with ultra-right wing racism
I have never been to a more multi-generational, multi-cultural event than an NRA-sponsored gun show fwiw. Every demo (men, women, rich, poor, black white brown purple lol) well represented.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 16:28 (seven years ago) link
Folks from every walk of life coming together in their shared vision of a world where every man, woman, and child has the opportunity to accidentally shoot a stranger in the face.
― Manspread Mann (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 16:37 (seven years ago) link
Or possibly even a loved one! Dare to dream!
― Manspread Mann (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 16:38 (seven years ago) link
it's true! It was deeply disorienting.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 16:39 (seven years ago) link
and everyone so excited to be there
I think a good strategy would focus on how much the reason the NRA likes rifles is due to racism. Which seems pretty clear from the way the movement began, I think.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, June 15, 2016 9:24 AM (14 minutes ago)
makes about as much sense as the attempts to paint planned parenthood as fundamentally racist. intellectually dubious but politically expedient.
― oculus lump (contenderizer), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 16:46 (seven years ago) link
Frederik hasn't found an American political issue yet which can't be solved by acknowledging America's inherent racism
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 16:59 (seven years ago) link
some good news
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/sen-chris-murphy-starts-talking-filibuster-over-gun-control-224369
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 June 2016 17:00 (seven years ago) link
Was just about to post that!
― a 47-year-old chainsaw artist from South Carolina (Phil D.), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 17:17 (seven years ago) link