Classic or Dud: "Ladies and Gentlemen..WEEN!"

Re: the other topic, I wouldn't waste any time arguing with someone who found Ween offensive. It's a subjective thing but also that's kinda what they were going for at times.

I had read about them being accused of sexism and racism, not just gross stuff.

OK sexism I guess I can understand, but racism?

even sexism is hard to make a strong case for. the point of You Fucked Up is the narrator's inarticulacy in the face of specific emotional hurt, not anything about a gender.

i thought the point was the narrator's "inarticulacy" in the face of being a fucking moron with nothing to say about anything

I seem to recall it was about one of the teachers in their high school who had given them a hard time in class, they were 14/15 when they wrote it; maybe best not to stare too deeply into that particular lyrical pool.
'Don't Get 2 Close 2 My Fantasy' on the other hand...

yeah I honestly can't tell if that one's really sinister or "Buckingham Green"-type lyrical nonsense

It's dark and gross, but it's not sinister.

it's certainly sinister - that's the whole point, really - but i can't imagine many being offended by it

I mean, the narrator is sinister, but Ween aren't trying to promote pedophilia or anything.

Spinal Meningitis is probably the worst one they have along those lines...not offensive but really really bleak. I heard someone try to cast it as them making fun of people with the disease but I can't read it that way at all.

That's the first one that comes to mind when I think 'potentially offensive Ween song'.

it goofs on horror for sickly lols. that solo tho.

^ apt description of every Ween song ever

who is expected to be offended by Spinal Meningitis, very stupid Christians?

Parents of children with spinal meningitis?

People who can't, or at least don't like to, deal with unpleasant subjects bluntly?

social justice worriers?

it's not blunt, though. it's expressing careful, crafted empathy to sufferers of, or adjacent to, the condition.

if parents of children with spinal meningitis were fans enough of Ween to make it to an album track on their fourth LP, they had probably been through enough tough times to find mordant charm and gallows humour in the song

getting xposts on zing but can't see them obv

although I just checked and it was track two side one, they didn't have to make it too far

was thinking it wasn't until side two

That song is really disturbing (regardless of being offensive or not), gets to me in a way that none of that type of music does.

yeah I have a real difficult time listening to it. kinda hate that they perform it live so much.

The 33 1/3 book on Chocolate and Cheese gives a lot of insight to how they think about they're lyrics. Jumps from from the sincere to the stoned through a range of quite personal points of references. It's kind of what makes their lyrics great; once you tune into the language and attitude you start to understand it.

'their lyrics'

yeah I have a real difficult time listening to it. kinda hate that they perform it live so much.

Don't get this tbh.

what part of it? it's a song about a small child going through medical treatment - it disturbs me

You're obv. a lot more sensitive than me!

Disturbing is a feature, not a bug.

Yeah it's nothing against them, just hits me in a weird place is all

The first time I heard Spinal Meningitis I wondered if I had made a huge mistake by getting into Ween and could ever listen to that song again

Don't get this tbh.

― Larry 'Leg' Smith (Tom D.), Wednesday, June 8, 2016 12:59 PM (Yesterday)

eh, most people have a vaguely-defined threshold past which enjoyably weird & creepy becomes upsetting, not funny at all. first time i heard "22 going on 23" by the butthole surfers, it threw me quite forcefully over that line, and i've never since wanted to hear it again. to say nothing of throbbing gristle's "hamburger lady"...

You will probably not be surprised to learn I love both those songs.

Kind of draw the line at "Slug Bait" though.

yeah, there's no shortage of unpleasant tg lyrics

I was thinking of that Butthole Surfers song. There's a few things about it.

In the sample a woman talks about being sexually assaulted and having bad dreams about it. According to them it was a woman who kept phoning into a radio show with different made up stories that contradicted each other. They said the track is a big fuck you to her for making up all these stories. But listeners have no way of knowing this unless they know this trivia and it simply sounds like they are using the account of a woman who's been sexually assaulted for shock value and listeners are likely to feel sympathetic towards her.
Even if a most of her stories were made up, it's very possible she was sexually assaulted and/or suffered from mental illness.

There's also the Lisa Germano song

The song 'A Psychopath', which samples a real 911 call where a woman confronts an intruder in her home,[6] was inspired by an experience Germano had as a child, when she was riding her bike and a strange man exposed himself to her.[5] The song was written about the general feeling of powerlessness that women can experience, especially with regard to sexual predators.[5] She obtained the 911 call recording from a rape centre (with their permission), after originally encountering it in a documentary about violence.[1] She was initially hesitant to use the recording, thinking it was "too intense", however ultimately decided it was something worth saying.[4] Germano has said that making the song was scary and very upsetting, and that she had trouble sleeping after recording it.[1]

Obviously Germano is well meaning but I wonder if the woman in the sample was asked, because if not, I don't think she should have used it.

Then there's some sampled interviews about people's horrible lives in Swans.

Even if all this stuff was used with the best construcive intent in brilliant music, a lot of people wouldn't like their traumas to be used like that.

re: "22 Going On 23" thank you for explaining that. I like the song a lot better now. Definitely felt uncomfortable the last few times I heard it.

i don't listen to them at all as far as their CDs go - last one i probably heard all the way through was the pod when that came out - but sometimes i will flip through stuff on youtube and i feel like i can point to some of their genre homages and say: okay, that's better than any phish/neutral milk hotel/destroyer/of montreal/paul mccartney/etc song i've ever heard.

and they are also weird in the way i can listen to a song by them and say: okay, that's better than any latter-day tears for fears song i've ever heard.

who else could i even say that about?

i feel like i can point to some of their genre homages and say: okay, that's better than any phish/neutral milk hotel/destroyer/of montreal/paul mccartney/etc song i've ever heard.

― scott seward, Tuesday, March 7, 2017 6:12 PM (two minutes ago)

yup, same here. also with you on the listening approach. a song here, a song there, but i never sit down & listen to a ween album.

oh wait, shit, you had mccartney in there?

haha, well, just thinking of examples off the top of my head. i've heard some mccartney-esque ween that i would probably rather listen to than a lot of mccartney though.

a ween tribute album done by serious singer-songwriter types playing the songs straight with modern digital folk-rock production would be cool. to me.

Ween are one of those bands where the live recordings almost always shred the studio albums. Archive.org has a zillion live shows you can download for free, some of which have stellar sound quality. You could spend months and months going through those.

it's funny that two burnout kids who met in typing class ended up like living a rock and roll fantasy... they really turned into an amazing live band

yea especially since they weren't exactly talented chaps to begin with. I doubt anyone who heard their early recordings was thinking "it's rough, but damn they've got potential!"

i did! kinda. i mean i thought god/ween/satan and the pod were really ambitious but i guess that's not that early. they obviously had song-writing ability.

i kinda think of them as an oingo boingo i would listen to. and later a jam band i would listen to. even though i only listen occasionally on youtube. i can even imagine seeing ween on acid would be fun.

i do see weird (science) parallels. O.B. even had acoustic interludes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYfjDyGPt4g

i have never actually listened to an oingo boingo album. did ween ever have horn sections on their later albums?

scott you should check out the white pepper some time. it is a stone-cold kinks are the village green preservation society / who sell out-level classic

i did! kinda. i mean i thought god/ween/satan and the pod were really ambitious but i guess that's not that early. they obviously had song-writing ability.

oh no, I'm talking about the stuff they did before that - GodWeenSatan was the culmination of like six years of writing and recording