OPO: Rush "The Trees" vs. The Cure "A Forest"

haha

I love both of these songs, but today it's The Cure.

Oh how they danced, the little children of Stone'enge. The Cure by about a million miles.

Peart, like most smart and sensible grown-ups, is clearly embarrassed by his precocious kid stuff. No way Peart c.now would cop to "The Trees" being an Ayn Rand inspired allegory for the Quebecois separatist movement (which, coincidence, was iirc peaking around the time Rush recorded "The Trees."). By calling it a goof he's dodging but at the same time not lying. I wonder if Robert Smith is embarrassed by anything the Cure has done? His consistency has certainly worked in his favor, plus, unlike Rush, it's his more recent stuff, not his early stuff, that's most embarrassing.

I refuse to vote in this.

for sure, josh. even though my favorite cure album, their eighth, was released a decade or so into their *career*, robert peaked way earlier than rush and has declined in critical attention steadily since. rush's long, long climb to (begrudging) critical acceptance is pretty much unprecedented, except for maybe the dead? "the trees" comes from the peak of their aesthetic appeal, for me at least, hemispheres. it is more awesome by association imho than "a forest" even if i've known them both by heart for years, the same way i'd take "fascination street" over "subdivisions". it's opening time, conform or be cast out!

Oh how they danced, the little children of Stone'enge. The Cure by about a million miles.

The interview was from 1980, two years after Hemispheres.

How does the song work as an allegory for separatism? Separatists don't form a union and demand equal rights; they want to leave the forest altogether. And why would maples represent the people who wanted to separate from Canada? Peart could be clumsy but not that clumsy.

xp to Josh

The union thing is the only thing I can see as maybe possibly coming from a Randian place.

A real objectivist tree song would be about a lone tree standing proudly in a clearing with other sneering trees surrounding it in the distance, leaning against each other for support and believing in gods and finding a way to destroy themselves as the tree in the middle survives and sees other far away individualist trees standing by themselves but smiling at each other in mutual respect.

Interesting that Peart mentioned Delany as one of his inspirations.

When I was a kid I always scanned "The Trees" as being about groups spending so much time bickering among themselves that they don't notice the external threat coming to wipe them all out. Reading the lyrics now, I wonder if this is where the screenwriters of "The Happening" got their idea.

The union thing is the only thing I can see as maybe possibly coming from a Randian place.

The song came from a Randian place, Neil Peart's head.

The song came from a Randian place

sorry, I can't help but hear Rihanna singing this

When I was a kid I always scanned "The Trees" as being about groups spending so much time bickering among themselves that they don't notice the external threat coming to wipe them all out. Reading the lyrics now, I wonder if this is where the screenwriters of "The Happening" got their idea.

you're looking at the ILE American elections thread, aren't you?

I am, to my eternal sorrow

i just checked that Peart interview, it's from 1980. i figure back then he's more likely to have been guarded about his politics, and read his comments in that light.

I disagree, actually. He openly thanked Rand in the liner notes to 2112 and their indie label was called Anthem Records. I think it's likely that he would have been upfront if he was consciously intending a political message. RAG is OTM: Rand is all about defiant individuals and certainly this is the case with any of the more explicitly Randian Rush songs/albums (definitely 2112 and "Anthem", even stuff like "Tom Sawyer" and "Red Barchetta").

Hadn't he wised up (or grown up, whatever you prefer) by 1980 though?

I can imagine him being a bit less upfront about the Rand stuff by 1980, I think he'd had plenty of abuse/lols over it by then.

Moodles take on the lyric was always the way that I interpreted it... the Maples = Canadians/Oaks = Americans angle. To be quite honest with you though, I don't really listen to Rush for the lyrics, as great as some of them are.

The thing about Peart with Rand, though, is that afaict, he only ever approached her as a sort one-against-many/rage against the machine/I will not conform sic-fi inspiration (that of course being the theme of countless sci-fi/dystopian stories rarely linked to Rand). It's the assholes who lately invoke Rand in pursuit of political asshole libertarian policy that ultimately give her a bad name (aside from all her other innate BS), but again, as far as I can tell, Peart's politics have never been conservative/restrictive/reactionary or anything. He's just a rugged individualist who rides a motorcycle. I've brought it up before, but at least a couple of songs on "Power Windows" are inspired by John Dos Passos, for example, ideologically not in line with Rand (though at one point an unlikely cohort of hers, I think). I think he's always called himself a social libertarian, or something like that, meaning no restrictions on personal freedoms/rights but maintaining the social safety net of modern (Canadian) neo-socialist society.

And xpost tbh, as this is not one of my favorite Rush songs and never has been, I don't think I've ever paid attention to the lyrics one bit. I've always been put off by its Ren Faire melody. It's dumb, and makes me think of "Brave Sir Robin" from the "Holy Grail."

when i was in fifth grade (early 80s) i went to this academic games thing in georgia for a week. we took a chartered greyhound bus to get there (overnight) and wedged between the seats i found a c-60 with < R U S H > printed all \m/ on it. and the first song on it was 'the trees'

And yes, Josh, Robert Smith is embarrassed by some of the things The Cure has done. Particularly early songs like 'Object', 'It's Not You' and 'World War' ... he didn't particularly like 'Let's Go To Bed' while he was writing it, either, but that one grew on him.

The middle section/instrumental break in 'The Trees' is one of my favourite Rush moments, fwiw.

" I wonder if Robert Smith is embarrassed by anything the Cure has done? "

well they call "Killing an Arab" "killing another" now, which is fucking stupid

At least he didn't call it "Killing An Arab In A Totally Non-Racist Way"

The song was revived in 2005, when the band performed the song at several European festivals. The lyrics, however, were changed from "Killing an Arab" to "Kissing an Arab". Smith added a whole new opening verse when the band performed it at the Royal Albert Hall, London on 1 April 2006 as "Killing Another". The "killing another" lyric was also used during the 2007-2008 4Tour. The band performed the song as "Killing an Ahab" with lyrics inspired by Herman Melville on 2011's "Reflections" tour.[citation needed]

"Kissing an Ahab" would be the best option imo

apparently the US version of the "Standing on a Beach" compilation came packaged with a sticker requesting radio stations not to play the song:

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/01/21/arts/rock-group-accedes-to-arab-protest.html

It would have been awesome if he changed all the words to "Killing an Arab" to the whale's perspective for "Killing an Ahab."

Hasn't Trump used it yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRsW9BTukpw

Unfairest matchup. Also this is my favorite Cure song ever, soooooooooooooooooo.

Unfairest matchup. Also this is my favorite Cure song ever, soooooooooooooooooo.

― Matt M., Thursday, June 9, 2016 10:10 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^

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Travesty