Depression and what it's really like

My best outcomes with therapists have involved being frustrated and pissed off at times with their approach; and much later in the process, sometimes with a different therapist, I realize my problems and my solutions resolve around how I deal with frustrations and betrayals.

Other people can be wrong (including and especially therapists), but if I can safely address how I feel they are wrong and what I can or should do about it, I've gotten closer to handling the rest of life.

Trying to distill the idea that if you are up to it, emotionally and financially, dealing with the therapeutic relationship is ultimately part of the therapeutic relationship.

you still have to find a decent one first.

I'm going to stop posting now, because I'm not sure what my point is. Therapy for me is arguing with myself, and therapists are poor substitutes for different selves.

No I think those are good points. I should probably be more open and less defensive and probably, at some level, I am resistant to doing the work of getting really better now that I feel I have the tools to feel "good enough." (Not that i always succeed in feeling "good enough.") Maybe i'll try again at some point. Right now I am in survival mode, trying to find a job and ward off the worst demons. Definitely not the time to delve into my childhood and deep seated insecurities and shit imo.

really really bad day today. external circumstances, not going to share, but it's going to be a series of bad bad days for the foreseeable future. probably going to go on a bender soon.

xp I guess I'm coming from a different angle. I'll sell my soul to Satan at this point to feel better. I've probably invested a good 6 figures of hours into this shit, so I'm not fucking around. I've seen people have mini-meltdowns when I've talked about my own childhood, sort-of like in Bloodborne when your insight is too high and you run into one of those brain things, so I'm probably coming from a different angle.

I called a new batch of therapists and found a few who were better than the last ones, made a few appointments to check them out. One of them seemed to get it, so that's a good sign.

No matter what approach a therapist takes, I think it's weird to challenge the assumptions of the patient like what happened to Treeship BEFORE developing a rapport. It sounds like this happened pretty early in your sessions with them, right? My therapist spent the first 3-4 sessions just listening to me, trying to understand my feelings and asking me my goals for therapy and giving suggestions for things I could do. It was many sessions before he started to challenge some of my assumptions. If any person, therapist or no, is questioning what I believe to be true before I trust them, yeah I'm gonna be put off

Exactly

Right now I am in survival mode, trying to find a job and ward off the worst demons. Definitely not the time to delve into my childhood and deep seated insecurities and shit imo.

last thing i'll say about this, but this is probably the best time to do the work

after 30-some years of depression and 20-some years in therapy (on and off), i've found that delving into one's childhood and deep-seated insecurities, while fascinating and potentially useful in lots of ways, has little depression-reducing value. at the end of the day, you're still the same person, still prone to the same patterns and choices. cognitive behavioral therapy, rather than dwelling in the murk of "the work", promises to directly address patterns and choices, but i've yet to see any good come of it.

my sense is that - regardless of who we see, what we take, or which path we choose - we improve only when the desire to change utterly overwhelms the desire to stay in place. and if that doesn't happen, everything else adds up to nothing.

For me, the solution thus far seems to have been aggressively breaking and/or avoiding established routines. I'm not sure if this is really an accurate way to put it, but it's like if I notice myself slipping into familiarity or repetition, I get back into that circular negative mindset. So, I guess it's like I'm "distracting" myself, for lack of a better term. I don't let myself become idle, or else I slip back into negative self-talk and similarly damaging thought processes.

after 30-some years of depression and 20-some years in therapy (on and off), i've found that delving into one's childhood and deep-seated insecurities, while fascinating and potentially useful in lots of ways, has little depression-reducing value.

otm. ppl on here know me -- i could spend the rest of my life analyzing myself, making and unmaking narratives about why i have struggled and what-could-i-have-done-differently-here, etc. but i don't want to do that. i want to get on with living.

i agree with austin, breaking up habits is key. that's basically what i wanted help with when i sought out a therapist but he wanted to talk about deeper stuff, like how being a smart person with a learning disability affected my sense of identity, or what "success" really means to me, just all these interminable rabbit holes. i have friends and family to talk to about stuff like that.

it's possible i am being super ignorant and there isn't an approach to treating depression that is purely pragmatic.

i could spend the rest of my life analyzing myself

You're not supposed to administer this kind of therapy to yourself tho is key here I think. It's the therapist's trained observations about recurring themes and things you may be eliding that give you places to dig in.

after 30-some years of depression and 20-some years in therapy (on and off), i've found that delving into one's childhood and deep-seated insecurities, while fascinating and potentially useful in lots of ways, has little depression-reducing value.

otoh, therapy can be helpful in overcoming the sort of emotional numbness and the crippling sense of stasis and confusion triggered by present day events which have overwhelmed your ability to cope. It is not always easy for a lay person to sort out the sources of their feelings or identify the best way forward. It's damned hard for a therapist or physician, too. Minds are exceedingly complicated things.

So, as part of my post-hospitalization plan, I was put into an Orange County behavioral health program that basically ensures that I have access to a counselor to address concerns and a psychiatrist to provide prescriptions. I had an appointment with the psychiatrist today and he's been monitoring my weight and blood pressure since I got out of the hospital in January. Since he saw me last month (before I started working), I've lost eight pounds and my blood pressure was the lowest it's been since at least last July.

So, good news, just from a purely physical standpoint.

CBT has definitely taught me ways to minimize the impact of my depression, i have learned (mainly by myself tbf) coping strategies that stop me responding to myself in ways that are disastrous to my day to day living. on a surface level i've never been more emotionally together.

thing is, i don't think it's done a thing to address the underlying despair and emptiness. and i don't even know any more if it's meaningful to distinguish between me as a functioning social unit and me calmly reminding myself every week that it's not ok to kill myself because of the hurt it would cause other people.

i'm feeling especially bad about some stuff right now and decided to put off cleaning, which i really need to do, until tomorrow. then i remembered the electric company has an 8 hour planned outage tomorrow starting at 8 a.m. now i feel like i don't even deserve to live in a house. how am i going to be depressed and procrastinate without the internet.

There is no need to do any housework at all. After the first four years the dirt doesn't get any worse.
- Quentin Crisp

i don't even know any more if it's meaningful to distinguish between me as a functioning social unit and me calmly reminding myself every week that it's not ok to kill myself because of the hurt it would cause other people.

― Noodle Vague, Thursday, June 2, 2016 11:04 PM (2 days ago)

my condolences, as i know the (awful awful) feeling. for me, those urges have dimmed over time. even at my worst, i no longer fantasize about suicide. i'm painfully aware of my own worthlessness, but i'm also weirdly at peace with it. and quentin crisp otm.

i've always loved that Quentin Crisp quote, but external pressures still guilt me out all the time about the squalor i imagine i'm living in - why can't i piss my free time away cleaning instead of just doing sort of nothing?

i'm not even moaning here, i am at some kind of peace, or the difference between a great fjord of a rut of apathy and peace have come to look the same, i dunno. just calmly, detachedly sketching the walls of the cell.

Housework is one of those things where it is very easy to fall into the cumulative sense of 'badness' that depressives are very vulnerable too. You put it off, then it starts to seem insurmountable, and keeps getting worse etc. Just remember that, on the whole, cleaning takes a lot less time than you think it will.

that is very otm. i love when things are clean and i'm good at cleaning. but i have such brain fatigue. and no one ever comes over. and i never want to have anyone over because i'm tired and my house is a mess. so why clean. the power's back on already, maybe temporarily because they're still out there. but now i have no excuse!

i have to pull up weeds out front too. this place looks like grey gardens.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13340199_1095574420484422_4212767675039046360_o.jpg
cries

i did some cleaning after my moan this morning, this thread works!

Huge <3 to yis all

i made some garden improvements and potted a mint plant

high fives all round

xp - wish i had a mint plant. congrats on your mint plant!

i cleaned the bathroom! seriously tho, my house is my biggest source of anxiety right now, it's so cluttered and messy. i read that marie kondo book and it's totally amazing... i just havent actually started the process of throwing everything away yet.

oh yeah so since i moved into my house, which is tiny but has two bedrooms, i had just kept the second bedroom as a do-not-enter/clutter room. couple weeks ago i was like i haven't touched this stuff in 2.5 years so i'm throwing it all out. it was like a weight was lifted off me. now i look in it and i don't feel anxious. i'm even going to paint it soon. i don't have hoarder tendencies at all it's just an accumulation of depressed laziness. so much better without all that crap. if only i could afford a bed to put in it.

'depressed laziness' is a good description of all the shit i need to get rid of

harbl :)

I'm in something of a dilemma now. Been offered a course of CBT treatment by the NHS and said yes. Problem is, I work a job with very irregular hours that it is going to clash with due to the sessions taking place at fixed fortnightly times. I am loathe to tell work about it, so I am contemplating cancelling it and going private instead. I would gladly quit my job anyway for unrelated reasons but I don't have another one lined up so that would probably be foolish. It would be a pity to have to go private and pay a lot of money for treatment instead but maybe that's what I'll have to do. Curious to hear what other people have done in similar situations.

Has anyone else had experience dealing with other peoples depression and anxiety?

I love my girlfriend but she breaks down at the idea of going to a doctor or looking into meds to deal and she bottles stuff up to the point of hitting crazy lows when it came out. I talked about some stuff when it came to our business about a month ago on this thread and since weve put in some stuff to make it better for her. But by eliminating one thing making her anxious, she seems to have spread that anxiety or anger out across her life, 5% feeling worse about her appearance 5% feeling worse about our home 5% more anxious about her mentality disabled brother and shitty mother etc. Etc. Etc.

Today i went to the shop and she stayed at home to sew some new clothes. A couple hours ago she text me she hit het head and it triggered an absolute mess of tears. Shes usually quite reserved but over the phone she sounded like the worst thing ever, and it was just a bump on the head.

I sympathise with her and want to help, I just dont really know how to. I cant really just go on patting her on the back and stiff upper lip telling her itll be ok (which is what she wants me to do, she likes pretending its not a big deal). Idk. I think tonight i might try and talk to her about seeing a doc again, it really helped me a couple years back.

It sounds like she has a really hard time of things and I think that in these situations, continued support is the best thing. Try talking to her as much as she's willing about the origins of her upset and what's going through her mind. What might seem like 'just a bump on the head' to some people could feel to others like a malevolent universe out to get them. With all these other anxieties and difficulties in her life, it is likely the pain will transfer to other, seemingly more benign things.

A doctor is a good idea to a certain extent, but making sure she has someone to assist with the underlying issues is definitely important as well. I'm not sure where you are, but it's also worth looking into hospital-based mental health outreach teams - I've seen a number of 'friends and family of people with depression'-type help groups. That could be useful too.

Cheers.

From talking to her since her breakdown today, (mostly chatted work but a bit about this), and thinking about it, i think one thing we are really gonna chat about is applying what we did with work to much more of her life. She didnt like working the retail side? We hired a part time staff member and just eliminated that issue. Have a problem with this? Lets actually talk about a solution. It might not work with a lot of easy things like family stress or her body issues but if there are things we can identify and sort, lets priotise it. Hopefully knocking a few more things off her list of anxieties can actually reduce stress, and show progress.

One part i dont like to think about is the fact that we went through a period where i was a terrible bf making lots of mistakes and starting arguments etc and we nearly broke up. About 4 months ago we kinda had a come to jesus moment and ive tried to be much better and learn from my mistakes. Crazily i feel this hasnt helped her, as if shouting at me was almost a form of stress relief or a way to ignore her issues to focus on ways i was doing something wrong. It seems absurd but i feel like i really want to buy her a punch bag or something, i feel like she has repressed a lot as of our relationship being mended. But then i feel rubbish and selfish for thinking this, as its only a percentage of whats many deep rooted issues coming together.

See if a doctor will refer her for gym membership at the relevant local authority gym. A few endorphins won't go amiss, and after a month of rowing machines and cardio, the physical stuff might worry her less. Good luck!

as if shouting at me was almost a form of stress relief or a way to ignore her issues to focus on ways i was doing something wrong

sounds familiar ... as in, I have done this to partners in the past. It sounds like the root issue is "control" ... idk.

Oh there are def control issues. We basically started a biz together cos we could never work for anyone anymore, her parenting has been 100% shit all her life etc. It all adds up.

We didnt talk about it tonight and just had fun with a few beers. After working myself up to have the chat, once i got back the situation screamed that more than anything, she just needed to forget about it for a while. I think i made the right choice but i know regardless of this im just delaying a terrible conversation thats going to have to happen in the very near future. Its very tough running the line between helping someone, persuing someones qualities and having to persuade them to look elsewhere to sort out their faults. Whether it be a doctor or meds or personal growth or whatever the fuck it is, i can only be so supportive and not be able to have a solution but ive got to help her come to it and help her through it to stem the tide of misery.

Depression fucking sucks, why dont we all have nice brains and no stresses in life?*

*even im rolling my eyes at this statement.

If someone bought me a punchbag I would absolutely use it. Maybe there's something in that idea! And yeah, the displacement of personal anxieties into whoever is closest is an unfortunate side effect of depressive mood. The improvements you've made probably did help her a lot, but with so many different problems at play, you're probably not seeing the results you hoped for. Talking and listening to everything, and definitely therapy could really help start unpicking some of those deep-seated issues.

Oops, xpost. Beer is a good solution.

i feel like she has repressed a lot as of our relationship being mended. But then i feel rubbish and selfish for thinking this, as its only a percentage of whats many deep rooted issues coming together.

don't feel rubbish for thinking this. it sounds like she is uncomfortable admitting her problems because she thinks they are shameful. i think she needs to take responsibility for herself, unfortunately, because she is going to make you miserable very soon. i, um, have a friend, who did this in a relationship before.

i also have a friend who did this in a relationship before.

Ty guys

this sounds really hard btw and i wish you clarity and courage.

Cheers. I feel like noone ever talks about *someone elses* depression. Its always such a lonely place to be in. She doesnt give a shit how I use the internet, I've never used her name etc. so I think i'm cool but I also don't want to betray her trust. Chatting here seems like a much safer place than with friends or family who are much more connected. I love her and find her incredible. So many of her issues though go much further back before I knew her though, and its tough and its stressful and yeah, the search for clarity is essential right now. Sometimes I wish it was like that shitty mel gibson movie where I could read her mind and help but also how was that not a horror movie? What the fuck is going on in her brain?*

*All of tonight makes it seem like I have a crazy girlfriend, which I don't. I don't like that I don't know a more specific way to think or write, especially having had a couple beers. She is everything you would want a partner to be and I'm very lucky. Its the anxiety, stress and deep lying issues that fuel this, not her. On ilx is not exactly where you need to say this, I think everyone knows already, but for my own sanity its worth saying.