Remake/Remodel: DC Rebirth so you don't have to

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DC Rebirth


The third, or maybe fourth, reboot/soft reboot by DC in under 5 years. And not including the two reboots in the years preceding.

It can't be good, right? Well of course it won't be but I'm clearly mentally defective when it comes to the Distinguished Competition so of course I'm going to jump right in.

The first thing to note is that it looks like not all the books are being Rebirthed - Cyborg and Deathstroke spring to mind, and both inexplicable because they're irredeemably dreadful - so either there are going to be two DCUs or it isn't going to be all-embracing after all; shooting yourself in the foot before you start, it's the DC way.

Secondly there's a Superman crossover which is supposed to be required reading as a prequel but is being published AFTER Rebirth #1 and perhaps more importantly OUT OF SEQUENCE.So part 3 comes out before part 2, and part 4 is the last of the 8 to be published.

Thirdly, Justice League #50 is supposed to be required reading. This is flagged nowhere except on the final page.

With all this in mind, let's boogie.

suffeeciant attreebution (aldo), Monday, 30 May 2016 10:32 (three years ago) link

So, JL #50. The conclusion of he near year-long Darkseid War that literally nobody has been reading and has taken place completely out of continuity. Unless it's always been in Rebirth continuity, which may or may not be the same continuity as all, or some, or none of the other books.

To summarise the plot Darkseid turns up, then his daughter does, then all the JL become actual versions of the New Gods (who don't exist because there's only Apokolips and not New Genesis in the Johnsiverse - yes, I know Orion was in Wonder Woman...) and then the Crime Syndicate turn up and Superwoman has her baby with her leggings on. There's more standing round talking than anything else, and none of it has lodged in my head as much as Superwoman giving birth through her clothes.

Now we're caught up, know that it is still not as dumb as the JRJr variant cover to this issue:

So, in this issue Superwoman's baby gets used as a weapon that attracts inverse Shazam energy and electrocutes people, except when Darkseid's Daughter (oh yeah, that was the whole point of this series - I mean Joker's Daughter went so well it started a trend. Seriously. Sinestro had one too.) gets hold of it and it turns into Darkseid instead because plot. Then the power of talking makes the Anti-Life equation sentient and it decides it doesn't like Darkseid very much and makes him an ACTUAL baby who will be brought up in a cave by his daughter.

Batman had been using Metron's chair until he decides not to, because it has already shared the ultimate answer to everything with him. Which isn't 42 after all, but that there are 3 Jokers. Owlman starts using it but he gets destroyed in a puff of maguffin which looks curiously like the residue Doctor Manhattan leaves behind in Watchmen. OH WAIT.

The Black Rider out of the New Gods wants to kill the Flash who is the Black Rider out of the New Gods but Power Ring from the Crime Syndicate deliberately gets in the way and accidentally gets turned into a good guy during the process and is now yet another GL of Earth.

Since someone has to rule Apokolips someone has to step into the breach and it's Luthor in a power suit. Presumably this is because his power escalation in this makes him too much of a threat to remain in the DCU, I mean he can take out pretty much everyone.

So Wonder Woman doesn't feel left out that she hasn't really played much of a part in this series other than to try and make Darkseid's Daughter renounce evil by talking to her about hair and boys and shit she too gets a closing revelation. A twin brother. This can't end well.

And that's it. It's all kind of left hanging. It's been poorly plotted all the way through and the conclusion is no different. Never change.

suffeeciant attreebution (aldo), Monday, 30 May 2016 11:17 (three years ago) link

I bless you, aldo

This makes some sense of my reading of rebirth 1. It doesnt make it better, just mildly more meaningful.

I know that this is treating the whole thing much more seriously than it deserves, but the whole point of the residue Doctor Manhattan left was that he exploded Rorshach and made his guts look like a Rorschach painting. It says it all that Johns and DC would go 'oh, kewl, let's have him do that to a bunch of other characters'

Frederik B, Monday, 30 May 2016 11:50 (three years ago) link

Rorschach's remains don't look like a Rorscach blot, they look like that visual motif that repeats throughout Watchmen in various forms, first seen as the blood splatter on the smiley button in the very beginning. It's not symmetrical like a Roschach pattern; in fact, the "blood on the smiley" version of it represents broken symmetry (because the blood ruins the symmetrical form of the smiley button), which is a major motif (both visual and thematical) in the comic.

Tuomas, Monday, 30 May 2016 12:10 (three years ago) link

But yeah, without having even read Rebirth, I can guess that Johns doesn't get what Moore & Gibbon's purpose for using that motif was.

Tuomas, Monday, 30 May 2016 12:11 (three years ago) link

Oh, wow, so you're doing this, huh? Well, I salute you and I hope you have a physician at your side to check your vitals as DC slowly saps your lifeforce once again.

I Have A Hot Dog Stuck To My Neck (Old Lunch), Monday, 30 May 2016 14:37 (three years ago) link

You are the real hero, aldo.

Frederik B, Monday, 30 May 2016 14:59 (three years ago) link

i think there's a case to be made that ilx has a moral responsibility to stage an intervention for the benefit of Aldo's wellbeing

benzarro ghazarri (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 30 May 2016 16:04 (three years ago) link

Final Days of Superman by Peter Tomasi

You know what? When I referred to the Superman crossover in the opening post, I didn't realise Superman #52 was actually part 8. That's right, true belevers, I had been reading all the parts to date WITHOUT AT ANY POINT REALISING I WAS READING A CROSSOVER OR THAT IT WAS A THING I SHOULD BE PAYING PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO.

In actual fact, having got to the final issue becomes clear that you have to have been reading not just the four titles they suggest but also Superman: Lois and Clark, and not just the two issues in question but probably about a year of continuity. So, since you haven't I'll try and get you up to speed.

80s Superman escaped the end of Convergence and is living on a farm with Lois and their son. Because he has given up being Superman he has a beard and a black costume.
Superman developed some new powers, the main one of which is being able to blow up like an atom bomb. He has to do this in space because so much energy is given out and the second (third?) time he does it he ends up depowered. He eventually cures this by finding the world's stockpile of kryptonite and lying in it. This has given him kryptonite poisoning and will kill him.
Part of the energy given off during one of his explosions has become sentient and possessed another guy who is now convinced he's Superman even though he's on fire. To prove he's one of the good guys he is going to kill Superman because then he'll get to join the Justice League (who, as we've established, don't seem to be in continuity).

All clear? Good.

So, in the final issue Supes distracts Fire Superman by burning him with his heat vision. Because, as we all know, you literally fight literal fire with literal fire. This allows Supergirl to try to beat Fire Superman before he bitchslaps her away, although luckily this allows Batman to fly a plane into Fire Superman while Wonder Woman stands and watches (her entire contribution). Superman realises Fire Superman is gonna 'splode so flies him into space. 80s Supes tries to help but Supes ego gets in the way and he punches him to another planet, then Supes realises that if he blows up at the exact same time then the explosions will cancel each other out and he will be able to absorb both.

There is a giant explosion.

80s Supes catches Supes to stop him hitting himself when he hits the ground (because he's survived whereas the one literally made out of fire hasn't) but Everything's Gone Green and the kryptonite makes him implode and turn to dust - but not before an interminable sequence of goodbyes that just goes on and on and on. Think LotR ending or David Tennant Doctor Says Goodbye To The World. The Steel photobomb is the best bit, he literally turns up in the background of a scene and does nothing else,

Anyway, 80s Supes can't cope and runs away, two pages of villains looking sadface that Supes is dead and Lois writes the front page. But which Lois, HMMM? The Johnsiverse one or the 80s one? Because both are in continuity now.

A real mess.

suffeeciant attreebution (aldo), Monday, 30 May 2016 16:07 (three years ago) link

this is at least in theory supposed to be a jumping-on point for new readers right? not sure how two lois lanes (two! lois! lanes! ffs) is going to help with that

benzarro ghazarri (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 30 May 2016 16:19 (three years ago) link

It's a shame that some decent writers have wasted the best years of their lives on sub-sub-prime DC. I liked Tomasi's pre-Nu 52 stuff.

I Have A Hot Dog Stuck To My Neck (Old Lunch), Monday, 30 May 2016 18:06 (three years ago) link

i think there's a case to be made that ilx has a moral responsibility to stage an intervention for the benefit of Aldo's wellbeing

― benzarro ghazarri (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 30 May 2016 17:04 (2 hours ago) Bookmark

I have faith in anyone who made it through Minds and Latter Days (and FOR PLEASURE) to boot. Anything's gotta be a cakewalk after that, right? Er, right?

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 30 May 2016 18:33 (three years ago) link

Haha yes, these are just shit comics. You're not reading pages and pages of mental breakdown (except here, obv).

suffeeciant attreebution (aldo), Monday, 30 May 2016 18:36 (three years ago) link

xpost That was just wrestling with one man's madness. This is like booking a cruise with Sea Org.

I Have A Hot Dog Stuck To My Neck (Old Lunch), Monday, 30 May 2016 18:38 (three years ago) link

"Guys, I swear if we just carry this cardboard cut-out of Superman around with us, no-one will ever know the difference..."

Pheeel, Monday, 30 May 2016 18:44 (three years ago) link

Oh Aldo, thank you, blessings, but are you up for it?

H in Addis, Monday, 30 May 2016 19:06 (three years ago) link

i guess one of the underappreciated benefits of being invulnerable is that you don't have to bother looking where you're going: you can just blithely fly along sideways staring into the middle distance, consequences be damned

benzarro ghazarri (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 30 May 2016 19:22 (three years ago) link

also, since when can aquaman fly?

benzarro ghazarri (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 30 May 2016 19:26 (three years ago) link

I'd like to see a super who flies in an upright standing pose because the usual horizontal thing gives them a crick in the neck.

pleas to Nietzsche (WilliamC), Monday, 30 May 2016 19:29 (three years ago) link

pretty sure there's some upright flying in jrjr-drawn issues of star brand, ironically enough

benzarro ghazarri (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 30 May 2016 20:08 (three years ago) link

DC Universe Rebirth
By: Far too many people for output this low quality.

Page 1 is the most homage-y Watchmen homage since whenever. 9 box grid, really? And it's about a watch, man. GEDDIT?! One broken cog has ruined the watch and it's broken. CLANG goes a plot point I reckon.
The narrator then looks at the world and zooms in on Batman, who he knows is Bruce Wayne. Maybe I slept through something in Batman but I'm sure it's still pretty much a secret identity at the moment so this is either Luthor or a mega powered deus ex machina. Either way, a panel helps us out by telling us Supes is missing at the end of Superman #52 (which saves those of us that aren't me from reading it). Then Bats explains what Metron's chair told him about The Joker (ditto) and very strangely we see on the Bat-computer that Batman has a photo of the Joker taking the picture of Barbara Gordon during the Killing Joke.

This totally confuses me. Did Batman always have a camera in there to spy on Babs, and if so just did nothing while it happened? Did Babs have a webcam or something going while it happened and either Bats hacked it off her computer or Babs shared it with him? Or Joker had a henchman take photos of him taking photos and Joker put it on Instagram and Bats had to thumb it to save it? Seriously, ZERO SENSE.

Aaaaaaand it turns out the narrator is Wally West, the ginger Kid Flash version. Darkseid dying has let him use the speed force to change dimensions/times/Earths/something (wherever the parts of the DCU that Flashpoint broke are, basically) to give plot spoilers to Batman. As ever, however, he doesn't just do the straightforward thing and tell Bats; he makes an oblique reference to a letter from Thomas Wayne. Seriously dude, those sorts of clues are worse than useless. You've told the World's Greatest Detective and he looks more confused and ashamed than anyone who paid actual money to see Dawn of Justice. And if you thought you didn't have time, why didn't you go straight to him rather than deliver your big eulogy? Piss poor decision making Wally. I'm glad you're dead.

So Wally summarises CoIE and Flashpoint then tells us that a magic hand stole 10 years during Flashpoint and that he's the Psycho Pirate of Flashpoint. The hand changed everything by not letting the completely different world be completely different by making it completely completely different different. Somehow. In a way he doesn't understand.

Wally then tries Johnny Quick but he's kind of vague there too and Johnny is NOT A WORLD'S GREATEST DETECTIVE so it doesn't exactly pan out well at all and Wally gets sucked off by the Speed Force. Result.

One of LoSH has come back to tell the police that Superman either is or isn't dead. It doesn't seem to add anything to the plot at the moment but early days I guess.

Ray Palmer/Ryan Choi and Jaime Wossname/Ted Kord make little pre/post Johnsiverse couples laying plot seeds along with some other Johnsiverse heroes (including the new Power Ring GL, presumably to prove JL #52 happened) before Pandora (the one Johns made out was a really, REALLY big thing in the Johnsiverse before she turned out to be nothing) gets exploded EXACTLY like Rorschach at the end of Watchmen. OH SNAP DING DING DING

Darkseid's Daughter summarises the remainder of JL #52 before Wally watches everyone being sad at Dead Supes. 80s Supes is confused he's alive and a Spooky Dude In A Cloak tells him he's right to be confused because Johns is involved in this so it's a natural state.

Disembodied Wally perves on Linda Park for a bit. Maybe he took the photo of the Joker and gave it to Bats. That seems like the sort of dick thing he'd do, he could call it a clue and it would clear his conscience without ACTUALLY HELPING. He then exposes himself to Linda who has no idea who he is, which makes him sad until he gets sucked off again.

Wally then fails to speak to anyone else he knows until he sees Johnsiverse Wally who it turns out is his cousin. He sees Johnsiverse Wally be the Flash so decides to give up. But not before he sees Barry one last time and after delivering the Bat-Clue again Barry remembers who he is and pulls him out of the Speed Force. Now they are both Psycho Pirates. As they discuss which Flash villain is behind it, Bats digs out a smiley face badge from the walls of the Batcave. It appears to be actual badge that the Comedian wears when he hits the tarmac at the beginning of Watchmen, which only exists for a very short period of time as we see Nite Owl chip the blood off while Rorschach makes the 'human bean juice' joke. But surely MASTERS OF CONTINUITY DC would know that.

The epilogue mends the watch from the beginning and monologues about Veidt's plan to destroy the world then ends with a clock/blood stain image which is all too obvious.

Controversially, I'm going to stick my neck out and proclaim this NOT AWFUL. Things which come next will no doubt make me choke on those words but this isn't any worse than bits of 52 and is probably most like Final Crisis. I very nearly enjoyed bits of it.


suffeeciant attreebution (aldo), Monday, 30 May 2016 20:08 (three years ago) link

oh god aldo's broken already ;_;

benzarro ghazarri (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 30 May 2016 20:16 (three years ago) link

wait, so now there are two lois lanes and two wally wests in the same universe? jesus h christ

benzarro ghazarri (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 30 May 2016 20:22 (three years ago) link

Glad you guys liked the JRJr cover as much as me. Horizontal Superman will never not make me laugh and might even be a new DN.

suffeeciant attreebution (aldo), Monday, 30 May 2016 20:22 (three years ago) link

There might even be more other things, it's not clear who else might still around Post-convergence. As a basic example, the Green Arrow and Black Canary that we briefly see are not the Johnsiverse ones so they may well be duplicates too (or lol continuity).

I've just realised I forgot to mention the Aquamarine segment. Nothing happens in it really but forgetting about Aquaman feels like one of the most DC things I can do.

suffeeciant attreebution (aldo), Monday, 30 May 2016 20:27 (three years ago) link

*Aquaman* Fkn autocorrect

suffeeciant attreebution (aldo), Monday, 30 May 2016 20:28 (three years ago) link

does aquaman demonstrate the ability to fly at any point?

benzarro ghazarri (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 30 May 2016 20:30 (three years ago) link

No, he just wants to marry Mera but has no idea why.

Couldn't Blue Suit Aquaman fly?

suffeeciant attreebution (aldo), Monday, 30 May 2016 20:36 (three years ago) link

i dunno, but in googling to find out i discovered i'd overlooked the fact that there was recently a series called aquaman and the others, which might be the limpest-sounding title in history

benzarro ghazarri (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 30 May 2016 20:48 (three years ago) link

Oh it was dreadful, an attempt to gritty up Aquaman with a team book whose remit was 'be a less epic Aquaman'.

suffeeciant attreebution (aldo), Monday, 30 May 2016 20:54 (three years ago) link

JRJR Supes reminded me of

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 30 May 2016 21:14 (three years ago) link

Out of curiosity I read Rebirth #1, and as I predicted, Johns doesn't seem to get Watchmen's symbology at all... The comic ends with an image of a yellow clock, where big hand is pointing at fifteen to midnight on the left side, while the Comedian blood stain is on the right side of the clock... This completely misses the point of the original comic, where the blood stain on the smiley was in the same position as the big hand of the Doomsday Clock in the beginning of the story, i.e. twelve to midnight. So the Comedian's death and the resulting bloodstain symbolize the beginning of the countdown towards the end of the world, but apparently in Rebirth the world already ended 12 minutes ago? Or maybe that's exactly what Johns wants to say, and he's being more clever than I thought? The bloodstain on the smiley Batman finds is in the same position as in Watchmen though.

Also, when the tattooed lady ("Pandora", according to Aldo) is blown to pieces, unlike Gibbons the artist for this section does not bother to draw the resulting stain of blood in the same shape as the smiley blood stain, so the recurring motif is lost. So lazy.

Tuomas, Monday, 30 May 2016 21:21 (three years ago) link

But yeah, I agree with Aldo that some parts of it were quite okay, especially the scene where Barry helps Wally come back. And it wasn't as incomprehensible as I feared, given that I haven't really read any DC comics at all after Flashpoint, save for Multiversity.

Tuomas, Monday, 30 May 2016 21:24 (three years ago) link

Would also agree with Aldo that, while it is an essentially worthless comic, a product of the problem it purports to be a solution to, exhibits a dunce understanding of Watchmen, and I won't pay for a DC comic until Berg4nza is fired... I enjoyed reading DC Rebirth more than any other 52 comic I've read - low bar indeed, but still.

Perhaps they should just go the whole hog, pulp all existing copies of Watchmen and relabel it BEFORE DC REBIRTH

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 30 May 2016 21:25 (three years ago) link

It's just that the inclusion of the Watchmen themes and characters feels utterly gratuitous, their role coul've been replaced by any number of DC universe cosmic players that would feel less out of place in a story like this.


Tuomas, Monday, 30 May 2016 21:27 (three years ago) link

Also, the funniest bit by far in the comic was Johns' sad attempt at writing Constantine's Britishisms:

Constantine: "Your missus is long gone, chief. Abby Arcane is lost to the dark side and whatnot."

Swamp Thing: "You asked for my help against the capes, Constantine... That is my price."

Constantine: "You've always been a pain in the arse, you bloody turnip."

Tuomas, Monday, 30 May 2016 21:31 (three years ago) link

I half expected Constantine to call him guv'nor and ask for some blood sausage...

Tuomas, Monday, 30 May 2016 21:32 (three years ago) link

If it came from literally any other creator than Didio or Johns or Berganza, stealing the Watchmen characters might have been, at the very least, endearingly cheeky. But this is pretty gross. I mean, Moore has been kind of a dullard lately, but it's still gross.

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 30 May 2016 21:33 (three years ago) link

I found Morrison's Watchmen pastiches in Superman Beyond 3D and Multiversity to be quite clever and intriguing, but of course Morrison A) actually understood what Watchmen is about, and B) was sensible enough to just homage Watchmen instead of trying to integrate it to another universe where it just doesn't fit.

Tuomas, Monday, 30 May 2016 21:37 (three years ago) link

Especially since the JT Krul version of Captain Atom actually did end up being Doctor Manhattan, out of time and space and all powerful. See? Reading those comics was SOME use.

Weirder though was the Ted Kord stuff and some of the angles used looking down on him and the beetle ship...

Guys, I've had a horrible idea.

10 years missing due to an unseen force. There's a line which is misdirected to Oldie and Dinah but says something about "alliances not made" and "teams unformed".

What if we've got it wrong and this isn't about incorporating Watchmen into the DCU. What if this is the story of how it didn't happen to the Charlton heroes but another universe.

suffeeciant attreebution (aldo), Monday, 30 May 2016 21:43 (three years ago) link

bookmarked this thread, munching on imaginary popcorn

Nhex, Monday, 30 May 2016 22:49 (three years ago) link

bookmarked this thread, praying for u, aldo.

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 31 May 2016 10:07 (three years ago) link

Is there going to be a ReBirth issue two, or will the storyline now just continue across all the DC titles (I'm morbidly interested in how they will develop the Batman scene at the end of issue one)?

Chicamaw (Ward Fowler), Tuesday, 31 May 2016 10:37 (three years ago) link

I thought there would a separate Rebirth miniseries, like there is with most of these crossover events, but apparently Rebirth #1 is all we're going to get? And AFAIK there isn't any info on where this whole Watchmen/Dr. Manhattan is gonna continue? Presumably in Batman at least, but there are like a kazillion different Bat-titles nowadays. I guess it's no suprise, but seems like DC doesn't really care at all about casual readers (like myself) who might just want to read this one story arc and not every one of the 50+ titles they produce.

Also, apparently this'll be the last DC comic Geoff Johns will write for a while, as he's gonna focus on the live-action adaptations. So I guess there's a good chance this whole thing will never be resolved, and it'll be swiped away in the next inevitable reboot.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 31 May 2016 10:50 (three years ago) link

I think they've said something something this is a story that will last two years, all over dc titles, we will see it again, don't know how, don't know when, but we know that we will see it agin.

Frederik B, Tuesday, 31 May 2016 10:52 (three years ago) link

Well I'm not gonna start randomly reading their books just in case some of them they might follow this plot, so I guess it's back to Marvel for me. Great job at attracting new readers, DC!

Tuomas, Tuesday, 31 May 2016 10:59 (three years ago) link

apparently this'll be the last DC comic Geoff Johns will write for a while


as he's gonna focus on the live-action adaptations

benzarro ghazarri (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 31 May 2016 11:00 (three years ago) link

I *think* the initial plot/premise concludes at the end of the Rebirth issues before the numbering changes/reverts/restarts, so just the 22 books to read. Of course, these are spaced out across 4 months so some books will be nearly 6 issues into their regular continuity run before Rebirth gets resolved or explained.

I should have realised earlier of course, that Titans Hunt has also been required reading. As a basic and confusing plot summary, the 60s Teen Titans (Robin, Speedy, Kid Flash etc) were removed from history to protect them from Mr Twister which means all the versions of those characters since are effectively different ones - i.e. the Dick Grayson from the Titans never goes on to be Nightwang etc, making them kind of like the JSA I'd guess. Anyway, they come back into continuity as their own preserved in aspic versions during Titans Hunt except Wally, because everyone forgot about him. Which has now been retconned (already, less than one year on) as being kept by the Speed Force.

suffeeciant attreebution (aldo), Tuesday, 31 May 2016 11:05 (three years ago) link

Last week was the most bonkers in DC recently. SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY.

Batman's drugged wet dream about Selina's hen party with Lois featuring robot Superman strippers, an orgasmatron, lesbian experimentation and DRINKING PARTS OF ACTUAL MOGO FOR SHITS 'N' GIGGLES was ... good?

The Trickster solving the problem of how to stop the Flash from running by AMPUTATING HIS LEGS was... something else.

Elitist cheese photos (aldo), Wednesday, 17 April 2019 20:10 (five months ago) link

I'm afraid to ask what "MOGO" is(?)

get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Wednesday, 17 April 2019 21:23 (five months ago) link

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 17 April 2019 21:25 (five months ago) link


get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Wednesday, 17 April 2019 21:28 (five months ago) link

Make Oa Great Okay?

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 18 April 2019 02:49 (five months ago) link

two weeks pass...
Poor Sam Kieth! Just ring him, Batman!

LOL (also, wtf with that art?)

get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Wednesday, 8 May 2019 23:02 (four months ago) link

Batz needs a hug

WmC, Wednesday, 8 May 2019 23:17 (four months ago) link

(also, wtf with that art?)

is this your first encounter with Kieth post-1991?

LOL otm

blokes you can't rust (sic), Wednesday, 8 May 2019 23:43 (four months ago) link

Yes it is!

get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Wednesday, 8 May 2019 23:44 (four months ago) link

solomon grundy beats up ed mcmahon, with laugh track

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 13 May 2019 14:40 (four months ago) link

three weeks pass...

I didn't know where else to post this, so I'll post it here. My wife just asked if there's ever been a female Joker, and I remembered the one from Flashpoint, and vaguely recalled there was a pre-Crisis character called the Joker's Daughter... So I went to to look for info on the Joker's Daughter in the DC wiki, and found her page. So, she's called Joker's Daughter, event though she's not the Joker's daughter, rather than the daughter of Three-Face (not to be confused with Two-Face) and Jokester (not to be confused with Joker). And apparently the new 52 introduced a new Joker's Daughter, who's not related to the old Joker's Daughter, nor to the Joker.

No wonder so many people find superhero comics incomprehensible.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 13:50 (three months ago) link

DC is basically an eighty-year-long episode of Who's Line is it Anyway?

John Denver – Led Zeppelin IV (Part II) (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 14:26 (three months ago) link

It is later revealed that Earth-3's heroic version of the Joker, the Jokester, is the father of Duela Dent, and that her mother was Evelyn Dent, Three-Face (the Earth-3 version of Two-Face). She was raised by Three-Face and her stepfather, the Earth-3 Riddler, and together the three formed the Riddler Family. When she was finally introduced to her birth father, she dropped cryptic hints implying that she or her consciousness shifts unknowingly from Earth to Earth, which is the source of her parental confusion.

Confusion, you say?

get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 15:28 (three months ago) link

Btw - isn’t Harley Quinn (not to be confused with Harlequin, the later alias of Joker’s Daughter I) more or less a “female Joker,” in all but name?

get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 15:34 (three months ago) link

Yeah, she mentioned Harley Quinn, I was just trying to think if other examples.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 17:20 (three months ago) link


get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 19:46 (three months ago) link

she mentioned Harley Quinn

The Joker isn't a lesbian living in Coney Island with a zombie stuffed beaver and Glenn Danzig, and with a literal shit cannon on the roof to fire excrement at hipsters trying to gentrify surrounding boroughs.

Elitist cheese photos (aldo), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 20:14 (three months ago) link

Anyway, this seems as good a place as any to announce my imminent retiral from reading superhero comics. There are just too many bad ones out there, it's removed all the joy from even the good ones.

The problem with this is I was going to wait until the last issue of Doomsday Cock but who knows, with the publication delays on that it could mean a couple of years yet.

Elitist cheese photos (aldo), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 20:23 (three months ago) link

seems a shame to treat Copra like that just because of how DC and Marvel treated you for the last two decades

quelle sprocket damage (sic), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 20:44 (three months ago) link

i think aldo's earned it

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 20:47 (three months ago) link

Man, DC is just tearing it up lately (where 'it' is the projection of anything resembling competence):

Howlin' Oates - 'Wang Can't Dang for That (No Can Doodle)' (Old Lunch), Friday, 7 June 2019 02:06 (three months ago) link

So I hope you enjoyed Doom Patrol while it lasted, is my takeaway here.

Note: this was cancelled after one episode.

Howlin' Oates - 'Wang Can't Dang for That (No Can Doodle)' (Old Lunch), Friday, 7 June 2019 02:20 (three months ago) link

They got a tax credit of 48%ish on the first episode, realised after another nine that they were only getting 14% on the rest, hence suddenly stopping at #10 of 13.

quelle sprocket damage (sic), Friday, 7 June 2019 04:43 (three months ago) link

Should have stopped at 9 in honour of The Great Ten

so apparently they dropped $85 million on nine weeks of this TV series, on an exclusive streaming service that nobody is subscribed to

imagine how many decades you could run an entire comics company on $85 million

quelle sprocket damage (sic), Friday, 7 June 2019 05:55 (three months ago) link

that's literally seven Tundras

quelle sprocket damage (sic), Friday, 7 June 2019 05:58 (three months ago) link

seven six

quelle sprocket damage (sic), Friday, 7 June 2019 06:23 (three months ago) link

I suspect the truth behind how much DC were willing to spend is a whole lot more complicated and is probably underwritten by WB to a degree with the ultimate aim of rolling DC direct into the WB streaming service, probably as a paid add-on. But, as you say, the numbers make no sense for DC as a business to keep sinking in - especially without the promised tax break - and when The CW, Fox and Netflix are providing nice income through syndication of their brand.

Rather than Tundra, although it's a great example, we probably need to look at how much it costs to run the soon-to-be-gone Vertigo imprint which I'll bet is an amazingly large figure.

This is a real shame and a missed opportunity though because ep 1 of ST was excellent, Doom Patrol was great fun all the way and Titans, although never shining too brightly, was solid genre television. It'll be interesting to see what happens to S2 production on that which has started - I think that's a better indicator of DP S2.

Elitist cheese photos (aldo), Friday, 7 June 2019 09:08 (three months ago) link

I get the distinct impression that DC/WB atm is split pretty evenly between people making bafflingly-quixotic creative decisions and accountants nickel and diming every one of those decisions (but only after they've already been underway for a number of weeks/months).

Try Oscar Mayer and Hellmann's new Bolognnaise! (Old Lunch), Friday, 7 June 2019 10:25 (three months ago) link

i'm definitely in favor of the former! since WB has more money than god, let's seem them waste more money on creators

Nhex, Friday, 7 June 2019 14:41 (three months ago) link

My 'favorite' DC trend of late is the thing where they solicit a variety of upcoming collections (usually ones that are part of an ongoing reprint series) and then for weeks afterwards are all 'oh, whoops, except not that one...orrrrrr that one...or those...'. It gives one the impression of a steady hand firmly grasping the wheel.

Try Oscar Mayer and Hellmann's new Bolognnaise! (Old Lunch), Friday, 7 June 2019 14:47 (three months ago) link

one month passes...

LOOOOOL, speaking of which, they've just cancelled orders on the collection of Johns's run on Stargirl that was on the way. You know, the character who has her own DC Universe show coming soon.

I genuinely cannot recall the last time I witnessed a company so hellbent on faceplanting at every possible opportunity and in such a wide variety of ways.

my but is not working it kept telling me device not found. (Old Lunch), Thursday, 25 July 2019 22:17 (one month ago) link

Jimmy Olson was good!

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 26 July 2019 23:36 (one month ago) link

It’s by fraction, but the good fraction

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 26 July 2019 23:37 (one month ago) link

I guess since this is the thread where it's been most discussed, I should mention that I'm about halfway through Doom Patrol and, while it isn't quite the mainline of Morrison I might have preferred, it comes surprisingly close and I kind of adore it on its own terms (and, while I watch all the CW Berlantiverse shows, I'm relieved that this isn't that). And also who would have ever dreamed that there'd ever be a Doom Patrol show at all let alone a good one, so I'm just thankful.

my but is not working it kept telling me device not found. (Old Lunch), Saturday, 27 July 2019 04:04 (one month ago) link

It's been officially renewed for a second season, btw, for those who didn't know. Still pretty much expecting WB to change their mind and shut them down once they have half the episodes in the can, but let's dream together of what could be.

my but is not working it kept telling me device not found. (Old Lunch), Saturday, 27 July 2019 04:06 (one month ago) link

yeah, it’s good! we talk about it over in the flash tv show thread

another no-holds-barred Tokey Wedge adventure for men (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 27 July 2019 06:58 (one month ago) link

three weeks pass...

Just read the first four volumes of the Rucka/Sharp Wonder Woman Rebirth run. I liked his '00s run, so gave this
a shot. Not bad for being yet another Wondy timeline revamp, but I hate that in the collections they re-ordered it so that the weaving storylines were separated into their own volumes, unlike the way it was published (and clearly meant to be read). For instance, Vol 1 is issues 1,3,5,7,9,11; vol 2 is 2,4,6,8,10,12, etc. Makes it actually more of a headache to follow.

Nhex, Saturday, 17 August 2019 19:26 (one month ago) link

I know this is probably a dumb question — but did DC “plan in advance” all the continuity twists & turns of New 52, Convergence, Rebirth, Superman Reborn, etc.? Or have they just been making it up as they go along, year by year?

Stub yr toe on the yacht rock (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 03:55 (one month ago) link

It depends which things you mean. I do believe that New 52 was one attempt and they stuck to it for several years, even though it was semi-botched from the beginning regarding Batman and probably some other titles.

I forgot how Flashpoint/Convergence/Rebirth connect exactly but I do think they were planned to lead into each other as the "soft" reboot of New 52 (again with some exceptions, like Kid Flash returning, Superman + Son, etc.)

There's definitely... a lot of stumbling around. I mean, Doomsday Clock especially, when that ends I have no idea if that's still going to be in continuinity considering how much has happened since it started (and The Button, and Heroes in Crisis, and Year of the Villain, etc.)

Nhex, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 03:59 (one month ago) link

Do you think New 52 Superman was always planned to be killed off eventually, and post-Crisis Supes reintroduced (followed by the revelation that Superman had been mysteriously “split in two,” or whatever)?

Stub yr toe on the yacht rock (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 04:02 (one month ago) link

I don't believe so! The returning of the John Byrne-era Superman kinda stinks of a failed experiment. Especially since all the changes were supposed to make him more relatable to younger audiences (new costume, less power, tragically orphaned at a young age, single again, etc. it's alluded to in Doomsday Clock even).

That said, the Superman and Jon Kent stories have been a huge breath of fresh air for the character, so I think they made the right move. And knowing DC they will bring back New 52 Superman for some stupid Crisis event, I'm sure.

Nhex, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 04:43 (one month ago) link

Thanks, that’s what I figured, but didn’t want to assume (I’ve mainly been reading summaries, not the source material).

Stub yr toe on the yacht rock (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 05:00 (one month ago) link

I'm pretty sure none of this was planned in advance, even Convergence leading into Rebirth, or triangle Superman returning as real Superman

I think it's just a mixture of happy accidents and post-failure reverse-ferrets. And of course many of the current DC titles still stink, so maybe not that much has changed

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 19:58 (one month ago) link

It feels like Bendis is just getting to the point where he tries to do too much at once and blows it, as per his usual three-year Marvel cycle

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 20:00 (one month ago) link

I'm getting caught up on the King Batman run, up to like #48 now and also reading the later part of Snyder's Batman run (reading the Superheavy trade). I was always bummed they trashed the old story lines but it has all come around now that it all kind of ties back into Morrison's Batman and Final Crisis pretty well.

I got to say "The Button" trade kinda got me interested in going back and reading Flashpoint and Azzarello/Risso's Batman story. I always thought that Barry Allen that came back in Final Crisis 'should' have known of stuff before Crisis, but they have tied it together pretty well with that story of The Button. That and the bit I read of #10 of Doomsday Clock does have me curious to check that series out too. I traded and got the first two in like 5th print or something.

The rest of the line might be a total trainwreck, but I have to admit they have done a few cool Batman stories in that series since the reboot. Snyder's two Joker stories are really good. Got the Detective comics going to start catching up on it in the next few days.

earlnash, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 23:53 (one month ago) link

Doomsday Clock is an entertaining train wreck

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 00:05 (one month ago) link

That bit of #10 then reading The Button was pretty much comic Easter Eggs dosed with crank. Anytime you got the Flash running on the cosmic treadmill with Batman hanging from a rope off a Batarang(TM), you got some real comic action going.

earlnash, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 00:58 (one month ago) link

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