Prince RIP

mostly

hey in a universe where madonna's success has nothing to do with her material and ability, i'm sure it was

There are some Gap Band and Rick James jams. You Dropped the Bomb on Me, Mary Jane - those old school funk guys still eked out some dancefloor fillers.

xp

if you wanna say mid-late 80s R&B was a fallow per iod, i suppose that would be somewhat understandable, if only as its not that unusual an opinion, but early 80s? cmon.

what you want a cutoff date? I'd say end of '82 maybe. P-Funk sound was still looming large over the first couple years of the 80s, and that was a good thing.

I think Madonna's perfectly plain voice is her greatest attribute. As my wife has pointed out, it made it really easy for her to sing along when she was growing up. Hard to sing along with Prince. Or with Bowie, really, without reverting to charicature.

I will not deny that 1984-1986 was not great on the R&B chart. However:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_number-one_R%26B_singles_of_1983_%28U.S.%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_number-one_R%26B_singles_of_1982_%28U.S.%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_number-one_R%26B_singles_of_1982_%28U.S.%29

may have been easy to sing along but imo early madonna karaoke is kind of impossible

I've done Madonna at karaoke and watched others -- shit's hard!

Her voice on "Holiday," "Into the Groove," "Open Your Heart," "Live to Tell," and "Like a Prayer" is a force of nature.

actually, going through a heavy phase of just this era of funk, so that would include all the above mentioned names, also Zapp, Slave, Free Life, Raydio, Heatwave -- I look at this era as the bands who took the torch from P-Funk, and until hop hop came along, they were basically the cutting edge of R&B and funk. To my ears, Prince actually doesn't fit in much with those guys, he was his own thing (and none of them really attempted a new wave or pop crossover like he did).

But yeah, tons of great stuff, and (as usual) the more you look, the more you find

Early 80s R&B and post-disco are pretty much my favourite type of dance music... And both Madonna and Prince were influenced by it a lot, in their own ways. And Madonna is just as much as auteur as Michael Jackson was; neither played and instrument or was a muso in the way Prince was, but they definitely had a clear vision of what they wanted their music to be like (plus both co-wrote most of their big hits), so I dunno, if you're still think Madonna's lacking in "ability", I'm not sure if pop music is for you?

also, the fucking grooves on some of those early records, eg physical attraction, MAN.

(several x-posts)

I'll go one better: MJ wrote most of his big hits and was a helluva producer by the late '80s.

in the mid-80s R&B's sound, along with vocal styles in general, seem like they get thinner and weaker to my ears - maybe there's something of an MJ/Madonna effect there, neither of their voices have much low-end or huskiness to them, their ranges are totally child-like and easy for kids to sing along too, and they were huge figures shaping the genre at the time. But it's not something I like listening to.

xp

omg you guys have outed me as hating both Madonna and MJ congratulations, off to the "overrated" thread with them

how I wish Prince had outlived them both (I fully expected him to)

madonna had quite a bit of huskiness. e.g. live to tell. love done live here anymore. i like her voice. it sounds untrained. but its not thin like a britney.

I knew about your MJ odium already believe me

I think electronic sounds started getting a lot more popular right around 81-82 or 83, and by '84, nobody wanted to sound like a 70s funk/disco band anymore. Hip hop and electro overhauled R&B (and soon, everything else) as far as production. Aesthetic became a lot more minimal and mechanical, and if you're looking at vocal styles, absolutely people like MJ and Prince helped usher in an era of androgyny -- heck, soon Prince was having hits where there wasn't even a bass guitar in the track. Madonna's early, cutesy style did have an immediate impact in pop (but not R&B really)

...not really sure what her long term impact is tho. I tend to agree w the notion what she "stood for" has mattered more than her music (which isn't to say that will matter less over time)

Aesthetic became a lot more minimal and mechanical

^^^ this obviously, but things got audibly *thinner* as well, booming low end became an anomaly instead of the norm

Could be, I'd be curious to survey a few pop hit tracks to compare bass db. The onset of digital recording had a lot to do w how things sounded back then too, where all of sudden, an unimagined crispness and hi-fidelity might have influenced tracks to be finely detailed and clean, where analog recording was a lot more about achieving a big, fat, well-balanced (and essentially "live") sound.

madonna was massively influential just not on the kind of stuff that gets overdiscussed on ILM

...if you listened to top 40 radio in the 1980s/early 1990s....

surely there are some Suzie Q fans here

Stacey Q?

ha yes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2hxhCRNoxA

thank you, Brad.

the youtube of stacey q singing the star spangled banner is the greatest thing.

he was already making jazz odysseys

Let us not forget Nocera while we're at it.

Come on - what's Madonna doing here?

i thought this was a good tribute -
http://pitchfork.com/news/65644-watch-neon-indian-and-friends-cover-princes-pop-life/
but im a NI fan, so...

also, im not sure why madonna is getting all the shit. stevie sounded awful too!

Yeah but he had to sing with Madge

stevie will seemingly show up to any event to sing w/ anyone

(not endorsing the madonna hate)

prince with miles davis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UoLkFQlmMI

I have to say, while I love both musicians deeply, I never thought Prince and Miles as being suited for each other musically.

i like to whom miles compared prince:

"James Brown—his father took him when he was young, he got on the stage and danced with him. He has that, he has Jimi Hendrix, and Marvin Gaye. He combines all that, all the time. That’s what he is. And his stage persona, that’s Charlie Chaplin."

though i have the impression that his guitar play was more inspired by carlos santana than by jimi hendrix.

another occasion to repost this wonderful live version of purple rain. the build-up is incredible and really sends me shivers down the spine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqBrvT3ShkY

the miles quote has basically become a way for prince fans to use as a defence whenever anyone says anything negative about him. 'well miles, a JAZZ musician, liked him so he must have been good'. but miles was obsessed with who/whatever was hot, so its no wonder he liked prince. but yeah, not sure they really meshed all that well. prince wasnt always that good at meeting other artists half way, esp not established artists. all that said, i dont mind can i play with you (though hearing it slower, and cleaner than my old bootleg makes it sound weirder). and i like hearing miles solo a bit with prince like in that youtube clip (it could almost be something from his 70s period, once the band quietens down and lets miles take over). the best thing you could have gotten from the two would prob be miles playing a solo on a prince song like above. or prince doing some rhythm work for a miles song. never heard the song that didnt make tutu (i think it was tutu that he submitted a song for).

the best thing you could have gotten from the two would prob be miles playing a solo on a prince song like above.

yeah I can envision Miles soloing over a Prince ballad. their respective versions of funk don't seem too complimentary though.

so speaking of high art signifiers, have y'all heard Prince's ballet, Kamasutra?
i bought the cassette off his website iirc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmfg3t3h9lI

i only know the plan from emancipation. is the whole thing any good? or is it something out of his grasp?

the title tune is okay, i honestly barely remember the rest. flipped through the songs and it seems sorta sub madhouse.

Kamasutra was also a bonus disc on some editions of crystal ball

Oh no, I have an (admittedly resistable) urge to buy Prince's "Emancipation" set!

i.e. Emancipation is essential

Which is ironic, because there is so much about it that is not.

Like the artwork?