Hey, take it over to the psychology and politics of talking about CELEBRITY DEATH on the internet (and ilx)
― The Wally Funk Bible (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 23 May 2016 18:45 (seven years ago) link
I'll miss her in an end-of-an-era sense. But in a way there's a lot about Madonna I miss already.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 23 May 2016 18:46 (seven years ago) link
Re: Prince, I'm still in mourning, and still blown away by the wealth of ... stuff just floating out there.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 23 May 2016 18:47 (seven years ago) link
tbh I don't cry and Madonna will outlive me.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 May 2016 18:48 (seven years ago) link
i can't recall another famous-musician death where i spent the better part of a month (and counting...) just listening to a shit-ton of their music, continually discovering new things. it helps that prince recorded so much damn music, but it's also just so diverse and deep and of such a high quality.
with bowie i'd just about heard everything there was to hear. there are some good live bootlegs, but nothing too revelatory. with prince it's just endless, in the best way possible.
― wizzz! (amateurist), Monday, 23 May 2016 20:15 (seven years ago) link
same here.
― ulysses, Monday, 23 May 2016 20:34 (seven years ago) link
^thirded, more or less
― The Wally Funk Bible (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 23 May 2016 20:36 (seven years ago) link
yup
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 May 2016 20:41 (seven years ago) link
I'll miss her in an end-of-an-era sense.
This is where I'm at. Without derailing this thread, I will say that, even now, I can't shake the feeling that Madonna's celebrity has always outstripped her actual importance to popular music. And I don't even really mean that as a criticism. Comparing her to Bowie would've been tough -- comparing her to Prince feels completely pointless.
― Naive Teen Idol, Monday, 23 May 2016 20:50 (seven years ago) link
the interview chris rock did with prince in 1996 is worth a look on youtube. he asks some stuff i think a lot of journalists didnt or werent brave enough to (or just didnt care enough to ask).
― StillAdvance, Monday, 23 May 2016 21:17 (seven years ago) link
This is where I'm at. Without derailing this thread, I will say that, even now, I can't shake the feeling that Madonna's celebrity has always outstripped her actual importance to popular music.
not the thread for it, so when she dies we can debate the barminess of this position
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 May 2016 21:19 (seven years ago) link
I find her musically totally inconsequential so I can see that. Her impact seems more along the lines of glass-ceiling-shattered for women in pop, and doesn't have much to do with her actual material, ability, musicianship, songwriting etc., she's more like a media figure than a musician and as such is the template for where pop music went
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 May 2016 21:22 (seven years ago) link
If you want to argue that her celebrity has often outstripped her considerable songwriting and musicianship, fine.
The question of importance or influence has never mattered to me (and her influence has been considerable too).
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 May 2016 21:25 (seven years ago) link
her first few albums are classic 80s pop. i mean, physical attraction, borderline, into the groove, theyre pretty unimpeachable really.
― StillAdvance, Monday, 23 May 2016 21:27 (seven years ago) link
not to me. they sound like music by and for 7yo girls.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 May 2016 21:27 (seven years ago) link
how bout a prehumous madonna appreciation/celebration/reminiscence thread since she will never die
― dc, Monday, 23 May 2016 21:27 (seven years ago) link
I don't know why I still own them tbh, altho my daughter seemed to perk up the last time I put them on. I find her voice really thin and grating on those records.
xp
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 May 2016 21:28 (seven years ago) link
they sound like music by and for 7yo girls.
― Οὖτις, Monday, May 23, 201
It's 2016 and you wrote this as criticsm
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 May 2016 21:29 (seven years ago) link
This is ignoring her deep roots in Italodisco and hi-NRG and punk NYC, all of which are obv influences on her early work.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 May 2016 21:30 (seven years ago) link
eh punk in the fashion sense and not much more. italodisco def, hi-NRG yes, also two genres I'm not too fond of. her voice on those early records sounds like, idk, air escaping from a balloon or something.
(fwiw I don't rate 7yo boys' taste in music as any better, it's just bad in a different way. Any adult who hangs out w 7yos for any period of time is not going to find their cultural obsessions interesting for very long)
this is all for another thread anyway, let us not sully Prince's RIP threads w digressions on far inferior pop figures
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 May 2016 21:33 (seven years ago) link
normally I'd keep my Madge opinions to myself since I don't bother reading threads about her, but this is the Prince RIP thread
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 May 2016 21:34 (seven years ago) link
eh punk in the fashion sense and not much more
there's another sense?
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 23 May 2016 21:35 (seven years ago) link
*rimshot*
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 May 2016 21:35 (seven years ago) link
i wish all music for 7 year olds sounded like those records
if you like R&B of the time, disco, italo, nile rogers, etc, i cant see how you could hate those records.
― StillAdvance, Monday, 23 May 2016 21:36 (seven years ago) link
ANYWAY
i made a chronological playlist of all the warner singles (edited versions only). it is obv the best singles comp ever, and ends on dinner with delores, which ends with the line 'and thats the end' which is so perfect im inclined to think prince knew thats how his WB run of singles would go.
― StillAdvance, Monday, 23 May 2016 21:38 (seven years ago) link
I love chic and nile rogers and disco, def do not like early 80s R&B, a fallow period for the genre imo. R&B in between the rise of disco/death of funk in the early 80s and the full incorporation of hip hop at some point in the mid-90s is a barren wasteland for the most part. I mean there's things I like here and there (mostly out of LA) but it's a grim sonic palette to my ears.
I feel like I like the roots of italo more than actual italo, I have a ZYX boot mix that I like a lot, and everyone loves Moroder.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 May 2016 21:40 (seven years ago) link
Prince and his acolytes obviously an idiosyncratic bright spot in 80s R&B
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 May 2016 21:42 (seven years ago) link
the era of Evelyn King, Change, Rene & Angela, Rick James, Gap Band, and Luther Vandross (among others) was a fallow period?
OK.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 May 2016 21:48 (seven years ago) link
mostly
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 May 2016 21:50 (seven years ago) link
hey in a universe where madonna's success has nothing to do with her material and ability, i'm sure it was
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 23 May 2016 21:51 (seven years ago) link
There are some Gap Band and Rick James jams. You Dropped the Bomb on Me, Mary Jane - those old school funk guys still eked out some dancefloor fillers.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 May 2016 21:52 (seven years ago) link
if you wanna say mid-late 80s R&B was a fallow per iod, i suppose that would be somewhat understandable, if only as its not that unusual an opinion, but early 80s? cmon.
― StillAdvance, Monday, 23 May 2016 21:58 (seven years ago) link
what you want a cutoff date? I'd say end of '82 maybe. P-Funk sound was still looming large over the first couple years of the 80s, and that was a good thing.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 May 2016 22:01 (seven years ago) link
I think Madonna's perfectly plain voice is her greatest attribute. As my wife has pointed out, it made it really easy for her to sing along when she was growing up. Hard to sing along with Prince. Or with Bowie, really, without reverting to charicature.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 23 May 2016 22:02 (seven years ago) link
I will not deny that 1984-1986 was not great on the R&B chart. However:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_number-one_R%26B_singles_of_1983_%28U.S.%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_number-one_R%26B_singles_of_1982_%28U.S.%29
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 May 2016 22:03 (seven years ago) link
may have been easy to sing along but imo early madonna karaoke is kind of impossible
― who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Monday, 23 May 2016 22:04 (seven years ago) link
I've done Madonna at karaoke and watched others -- shit's hard!
Her voice on "Holiday," "Into the Groove," "Open Your Heart," "Live to Tell," and "Like a Prayer" is a force of nature.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 May 2016 22:04 (seven years ago) link
actually, going through a heavy phase of just this era of funk, so that would include all the above mentioned names, also Zapp, Slave, Free Life, Raydio, Heatwave -- I look at this era as the bands who took the torch from P-Funk, and until hop hop came along, they were basically the cutting edge of R&B and funk. To my ears, Prince actually doesn't fit in much with those guys, he was his own thing (and none of them really attempted a new wave or pop crossover like he did).
But yeah, tons of great stuff, and (as usual) the more you look, the more you find
― Dominique, Monday, 23 May 2016 22:07 (seven years ago) link
Early 80s R&B and post-disco are pretty much my favourite type of dance music... And both Madonna and Prince were influenced by it a lot, in their own ways. And Madonna is just as much as auteur as Michael Jackson was; neither played and instrument or was a muso in the way Prince was, but they definitely had a clear vision of what they wanted their music to be like (plus both co-wrote most of their big hits), so I dunno, if you're still think Madonna's lacking in "ability", I'm not sure if pop music is for you?
― Tuomas, Monday, 23 May 2016 22:07 (seven years ago) link
also, the fucking grooves on some of those early records, eg physical attraction, MAN.
― StillAdvance, Monday, 23 May 2016 22:08 (seven years ago) link
(several x-posts)
― Tuomas, Monday, 23 May 2016 22:08 (seven years ago) link
I'll go one better: MJ wrote most of his big hits and was a helluva producer by the late '80s.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 May 2016 22:09 (seven years ago) link
in the mid-80s R&B's sound, along with vocal styles in general, seem like they get thinner and weaker to my ears - maybe there's something of an MJ/Madonna effect there, neither of their voices have much low-end or huskiness to them, their ranges are totally child-like and easy for kids to sing along too, and they were huge figures shaping the genre at the time. But it's not something I like listening to.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 May 2016 22:10 (seven years ago) link
omg you guys have outed me as hating both Madonna and MJ congratulations, off to the "overrated" thread with them
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 May 2016 22:11 (seven years ago) link
how I wish Prince had outlived them both (I fully expected him to)
madonna had quite a bit of huskiness. e.g. live to tell. love done live here anymore. i like her voice. it sounds untrained. but its not thin like a britney.
― StillAdvance, Monday, 23 May 2016 22:12 (seven years ago) link
I knew about your MJ odium already believe me
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 May 2016 22:13 (seven years ago) link
I think electronic sounds started getting a lot more popular right around 81-82 or 83, and by '84, nobody wanted to sound like a 70s funk/disco band anymore. Hip hop and electro overhauled R&B (and soon, everything else) as far as production. Aesthetic became a lot more minimal and mechanical, and if you're looking at vocal styles, absolutely people like MJ and Prince helped usher in an era of androgyny -- heck, soon Prince was having hits where there wasn't even a bass guitar in the track. Madonna's early, cutesy style did have an immediate impact in pop (but not R&B really)
― Dominique, Monday, 23 May 2016 22:17 (seven years ago) link
...not really sure what her long term impact is tho. I tend to agree w the notion what she "stood for" has mattered more than her music (which isn't to say that will matter less over time)
― Dominique, Monday, 23 May 2016 22:18 (seven years ago) link
Aesthetic became a lot more minimal and mechanical
^^^ this obviously, but things got audibly *thinner* as well, booming low end became an anomaly instead of the norm
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 May 2016 22:30 (seven years ago) link