OTM
― Hi! I'm twice-coloured! (Sund4r), Saturday, 7 May 2016 22:18 (seven years ago) link
Is Phish anything like that? I've still never heard them.
No
― Check Yr Scrobbles (Moodles), Saturday, 7 May 2016 23:06 (seven years ago) link
Nah man Phish is like Spin Doctors with 80s King Crimson chops
― rockpalast '82 (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 8 May 2016 03:21 (seven years ago) link
That's a really great way of describing some of the worst music on Earth.
― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Sunday, 8 May 2016 10:32 (seven years ago) link
What are Spin Doctors like?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 8 May 2016 10:43 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsdy_rct6uo
― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Sunday, 8 May 2016 10:45 (seven years ago) link
80s King Crimson chops
Wait, did Phish ever approach this? (And I like "You Enjoy Myself" fwiw.)
― Hi! I'm twice-coloured! (Sund4r), Sunday, 8 May 2016 12:22 (seven years ago) link
Assuming he was joking
― Wrecka Stow Ralph (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 8 May 2016 12:28 (seven years ago) link
Oh lol. I forgot how much I enjoyed "Two Princes".
― Hi! I'm twice-coloured! (Sund4r), Sunday, 8 May 2016 12:32 (seven years ago) link
FP^
― Check Yr Scrobbles (Moodles), Sunday, 8 May 2016 14:18 (seven years ago) link
Spin Doctors = the American ReefZappa = the American Bonzos, with added mega-chops
― めんどくさかった (Matt #2), Sunday, 8 May 2016 14:54 (seven years ago) link
http://www.dweezilzappaworld.com/posts/1982286-response-to-my-brother-s-open-letter
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 17 May 2016 12:30 (seven years ago) link
Families, eh? Nightmare.
― Larry 'Leg' Smith (Tom D.), Tuesday, 17 May 2016 13:01 (seven years ago) link
Thinking Prince may have had it right with no family or will.
So, was this obsessive controlling thing Gail had (and Ahmet has inherited) some twisted way of getting back at Frank for his serial infidelity?
― Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 18 May 2016 13:40 (seven years ago) link
Now renamed the "Dweezil Zappa plays whatever the fuck he wants" tour
― frogbs, Tuesday, 28 June 2016 12:46 (seven years ago) link
featuring robby krieger
― hypnic jerk (rushomancy), Tuesday, 28 June 2016 12:52 (seven years ago) link
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-ca-ms-frank-zappa-legacy/
Ahmet's "I'm just doing what Mom wanted" stuff smells the most disingenuous, but what do I know.
― pleas to Nietzsche (WilliamC), Tuesday, 28 June 2016 12:57 (seven years ago) link
Speaking on the phone from London after a trip to Stonehenge for summer solstice, Diva says that the last year has been difficult on so many levels and that she and Ahmet are doing the best they can with a difficult situation.
Spoken like a person with the keys to the bank vault.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 28 June 2016 13:17 (seven years ago) link
you can hear Dweezil talk about Gail on Marc Maron. it really sounds like she was completely cuckoo, at one point responding to his request to list ZPZ tour dates on the website with "I'm not just some groupie your father fucked!" seems like (as many people have suspected) Gail was a little resentful towards ol' Frank
― frogbs, Tuesday, 28 June 2016 13:22 (seven years ago) link
can't think of any way of better honor frank's legacy that manipulative acrimonious fighting over money tbh
― Steve Gunn Mann-Dude (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 28 June 2016 13:26 (seven years ago) link
Saw the documentary last night. For a casual fan like me (the kind Zappa ridicules early in the film: the first three Mothers LPs a touchstone since high school--even before I had them, I'd read Lillian Roxon's entry on them again and again--count "Trouble Every Day" as one of the most amazing songs ever, close to no interest after that), very worthwhile. Similar to the De Palma documentary: no one interviewed other than Zappa himself (I doubt if anyone other than Dylan was ever subjected to sillier questions--a Toronto VJ, Jeanne Beker, who used to get flak from everyone here, actually comes across really well). Things like "Bobby Brown" and "Dinah-Moe Humm"...I don't know, where's the line that separates even fans from fans who find those particular songs smart and funny? I did like how, when asked in what appeared to be his last interview if he ever regretted certain songs, he immediately said "No." My friend and I wondered if it would even be possible to be Frank Zappa today and not be chased out of town yesterday.
The Steve Allen and What's My Line clips, which have undoubtedly turned up elsewhere, are great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTj-xNcvfzI
― clemenza, Thursday, 14 July 2016 16:34 (seven years ago) link
i have this strong suspicion that frank zappa today would be fucking milo yiannopoulos.
― the event dynamics of power asynchrony (rushomancy), Thursday, 14 July 2016 16:36 (seven years ago) link
That's the guy Alfred posted about a few days ago...You might be right. I'd like to think there'd be room somewhere for a smarter version today.
― clemenza, Thursday, 14 July 2016 16:45 (seven years ago) link
nah - FZ had a lot of reprehensible opinions/takes but they were pretty secondary to most of what he did. I don't think he conceived of his work as a platform for his opinions, though he also thought it was a fine forum for his opinions, if you can dig that distinction - but his skill set, anyway, included writing interesting and good music (ymmv of course). but the music came first, I think. these milo types are mainly in it to get attention/make people mad, I don't think that's really true of zappa.
― The bald Phil Collins impersonator cash grab (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Thursday, 14 July 2016 17:48 (seven years ago) link
I remember reading years and years ago that Frank Zappa and Ronald Reagan were, at the time, the only two recipients of test letters sent with only a photograph of themselves on the envelope in lieu of an address.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 14 July 2016 18:01 (seven years ago) link
Just to clarify my own post, I mean smarter than Yiannopoulos, not smarter than Zappa.
― clemenza, Thursday, 14 July 2016 18:12 (seven years ago) link
Because the latter would be scientifically impossible!
― Gabba Gabba Hey in the Hayloft (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 14 July 2016 18:14 (seven years ago) link
That's what puzzles me about Zappa: that someone so intelligent about so many things would (presumably) think that something like "Bobby Brown" (put aside the nasty stuff) had important things to say that a smart high school student hadn't already moved past. (As music, I guess that particular song actually is interesting--modern-day doo-wop big in Scandinavia...)
― clemenza, Thursday, 14 July 2016 18:21 (seven years ago) link
http://variety.com/2016/dirt/news/lady-gaga-buys-frank-zappa-house-hollywood-1201865296/
― aaaaaaaauuuuuuuuu (melting robot) (WilliamC), Wednesday, 21 September 2016 20:58 (seven years ago) link
Nice that they sold it to another Italian.
― Bottlerockey (Tom D.), Wednesday, 21 September 2016 21:00 (seven years ago) link
The doc is interesting. It was mentioned up thread but in regards to Frank's dismissal of the fans who primarily revere his earlier works, it is probably because there's a sincerity to these albums that was rarely seen later. The moment where a female voice chimes in "flower power sucks" on "We're Only In It For The Money" still gives me chills because very few artists back then commented on the superficiality of these movements. I'm still a fan of his later work like "Over-Nite Senasation" and "Hot Rats" but I struggle to see the sincerity in some of it. Perhaps that's the point, Zappa is rarely sincere and a contrarian, but there's glimpses of it in earlier work like "Uncle Meat" and "Freak Out" where his empathy and avant-garde tendencies shine through. The earlier work makes me think he's worth defending, much harder to do with his later stuff.
― Ross, Sunday, 27 November 2016 21:59 (seven years ago) link
The strange thing about Zappa is that his juvenalia is his least juvenile work.
― xiphoid beetlebum (rushomancy), Sunday, 27 November 2016 22:21 (seven years ago) link
I may have posted this upthread but Zappa is truly the ultimate love / hate proposition for me, and I realize I'm not alone here. Saying "I wish all of his albums were instrumental" is almost a cliche at this point (see: Shut Up & Play Your Guitar, etc) but I am firmly in this camp. I love the hell out of Hot Rats, (most of) Apostrophe, (half of) Roxy, and parts of others, but always wish I liked his albums more than I do. I like the early albums fine but they veer more toward novelty to me (I'm including everything up to Reuben here), like above-average wacky psych pop, but not really the sort of thing I reach for.
That said, I expect I will have a "Zappa phase" at some point in my life. There's just so much good shit mixed in with so much dumb scatological nonsense.
A "Non-Wacky Zappa S&D" would be most welcome
― Wimmels, Monday, 28 November 2016 00:00 (seven years ago) link
I came here to chime in on that same note!
I’d always loathed Frank Zappa based on his persona and the Dr. Demento style songs that he seems to be best known for (?). I didn’t even know Zappa made any non-“novelty” music until Blessed Relief came up on a Spotify playlist. I like it, but I don’t know if I’m supposed to be taking it at face value, or reading it as some kind of veiled dig at Chuck Mangione and smooth jazz in general.
― Dan I., Monday, 9 January 2017 17:26 (seven years ago) link
Are the first couple records a good place to start? I too just can't stand the persona and what I've heard but the Mothers of Invention records are liked by so many people
― Iago Galdston, Monday, 9 January 2017 17:30 (seven years ago) link
the first couple of records tend to get more liked because one gets the sense from them that zappa hadn't entirely given up on humanity at that point (though he was getting there) and have some moments of sincere and unaffected emotion (see, for instance, the bridge of "what's the ugliest part of your body"). but it's not as if that album is a wacky-free zone by any means.
anyway there's another thread for non-wacky zappa but i don't remember where it is right now.
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Monday, 9 January 2017 17:43 (seven years ago) link
First album is ok, the songs don't really fall in the novelty category. 2nd album has a terrific first side but also has the yucky "Brown Shoes Don't Make It," a tender ode to being tired of one's wife and fantasizing about fucking a 13-year-old girl instead. Of the original Mothers-era records, I recommend going in this order:
1. Uncle Meat2. We're Only In It for the Money3. Burnt Weeny Sandwich4. Weasels Ripped My Flesh5. Ahead of Their Time (released 1993, recorded Oct. 1968; half chamber music and not the worst comedy, half Mothers performance)6. Cruising with Ruben and the Jets7. Lumpy Gravy8. Freak Out!9. Absolutely Free
If you like the more abstract parts of the first 2, bump Lumpy Gravy higher.
― aaaaaaaauuuuuuuuu (melting robot) (WilliamC), Monday, 9 January 2017 17:45 (seven years ago) link
2nd album has a terrific first side but also has the yucky "Brown Shoes Don't Make It,"
LOL, I can't stand the first side and think "Brown Shoes" is one of the best things he ever did.
― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Monday, 9 January 2017 18:16 (seven years ago) link
I think "Brown Shoes" is a great sound collage, and the pedophilia is allegedly the dream of some City Hall worker, not Frank himself, but knowing where Roy Estrada ended up makes this one tough to listen to for me.
― Snorting and all (Dan Peterson), Monday, 9 January 2017 18:27 (seven years ago) link
Non-Wacky Zappa POX, S&D, etc
― new noise, Monday, 9 January 2017 18:35 (seven years ago) link
xp -- ditto
― aaaaaaaauuuuuuuuu (melting robot) (WilliamC), Monday, 9 January 2017 18:41 (seven years ago) link
the first couple of records tend to get more liked because one gets the sense from them that zappa hadn't entirely given up on humanity at that point
Well, or just people liking the sound of the band at that point and the songwriting.
I'm well into sixties rock and roll and happen to think that Freak Out is a document of one of the most dynamic and brilliant sounding bands around.
― timellison, Monday, 9 January 2017 19:51 (seven years ago) link
must admit that i never got that impression from "go cry on somebody else's shoulder" but to each their own
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Monday, 9 January 2017 20:12 (seven years ago) link
That's clearly one of the songs most reliant on '50s tropes (while a lot of the album is not), but still a nice tune with really good vocals.
― timellison, Monday, 9 January 2017 20:28 (seven years ago) link
Not to hijack this thread. But just read the lyrics to "Brown Shoes Don't Make It" ... supposedly it was about a fashion faux pas of LBJ's and the "dirty old men who run our country." But even still, these lyrics stuck out:
A world of secret hungersPerverting the men who make your lawsEvery desire is hidden awayIn drawer, in a deskBy a Naughahyde chairOn a rug where they walk and droolPast the girls in the officeYou see in the back of the City Hall mindThe dream of a girl about thirteenOff with her clothes and into a bedWhere she tickles his fancy all night longHis wife's attending an orchid showShe squealed for a week to get him to goBut back in the bed his, teenage queenIs rocking and rolling and acting obsceneBaby! Baby!Baby! Baby!And he loves it, he loves it, it curls up his toesShe bites his fat neck and it lights up his noseBut he cannot be fooled, old City Hall FredShe's nasty, she's nasty, she digs it in bedDo it again and do it some moreThat does it, by golly, it's nasty for sureNasty-nasty-nasty, nasty-nasty-nastyOnly thirteen and she knows how to nastyShe's a dirty young mindCorrupted, corrodedWell she's thirteen todayAnd I hear she gets loadedIf she were my daughter I'd...(What would you do, Daddy?)If she were my daughter I'd...(What would you do, Daddy?)If she were my daughter I'd...(What would you do, Daddy?)Smother my daughter in chocolate syrupAnd strap her on again, oh babySmother that girl in chocolate syrupAnd strap her on againShe's a Teenage Baby and she turns me onI'd like to make her do a nasty on the White House lawnGoing to smother that daughter in chocolate syrupAnd boogie till the cows come home
You see in the back of the City Hall mindThe dream of a girl about thirteenOff with her clothes and into a bedWhere she tickles his fancy all night long
His wife's attending an orchid showShe squealed for a week to get him to goBut back in the bed his, teenage queenIs rocking and rolling and acting obscene
Baby! Baby!Baby! Baby!
And he loves it, he loves it, it curls up his toesShe bites his fat neck and it lights up his noseBut he cannot be fooled, old City Hall FredShe's nasty, she's nasty, she digs it in bed
Do it again and do it some moreThat does it, by golly, it's nasty for sureNasty-nasty-nasty, nasty-nasty-nastyOnly thirteen and she knows how to nasty
She's a dirty young mindCorrupted, corrodedWell she's thirteen todayAnd I hear she gets loaded
If she were my daughter I'd...(What would you do, Daddy?)If she were my daughter I'd...(What would you do, Daddy?)If she were my daughter I'd...(What would you do, Daddy?)
Smother my daughter in chocolate syrupAnd strap her on again, oh babySmother that girl in chocolate syrupAnd strap her on again
She's a Teenage Baby and she turns me onI'd like to make her do a nasty on the White House lawnGoing to smother that daughter in chocolate syrupAnd boogie till the cows come home
I also found this on the Absolutely Free site:
I recently began a pen-pal thing with a woman who went to school a couple of years behind Frank, Don, Motorhead and others. Hers is a pretty interesting perspective I thought I would share. As she has not given permission for me to give out her address, I've snipped the headers. (her text follows)It was rumored that the song "She's only 13 and she knows how to nasty" was written about a girl a year younger than me called Patty Keenen who was a dead ringer for Bridget Bardot and looked old enough to buy beer for the boys..Alas poor Patty is no longer with us. And the song "Brown shoes dont make it" was the was it was in our school..brown shoes just weren't cool.
It was rumored that the song "She's only 13 and she knows how to nasty" was written about a girl a year younger than me called Patty Keenen who was a dead ringer for Bridget Bardot and looked old enough to buy beer for the boys..Alas poor Patty is no longer with us. And the song "Brown shoes dont make it" was the was it was in our school..brown shoes just weren't cool.
http://www.arf.ru/Notes/Afree/bshoes.html
In the wake of what we now know about the 60s free love scene in rock (hello Kim Fowley), lyrics like these make me super uncomfortable. They don't feel like satire -- or just satire anyway. They're just a bit too enthusiastic and detailed.
Maybe it's just looking at things like this without the benefit of contemporaneous eyes. Zappa really did have a distinctive voice musically that I still enjoy from time to time. But between his reported *love* of groupies, pretty much everything he wrote about women and the aggressive tone to his lyrics in general, I have a hard time with pretty much any of his vocal stuff, much less songs that veer into social commentary.
― Naive Teen Idol, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 19:52 (seven years ago) link
Hot Rats is honestly so so good, I looked this thread up to say. esp. Green Genes > Little Umbrellas, what a lovely stretch of music, so distinct, off in its own world
(I think the general nastiness of Zappa's outlook on the world as understood through his lyrics is something we've covered on this thread, and I concur that there's some deeply ugly shit in there)
― though the tempest rages, (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Monday, 6 March 2017 01:57 (seven years ago) link
Deeply love Hot Rats
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 6 March 2017 08:54 (seven years ago) link
I tend to cut off around '74 when he was still doing the Gamelan sounding stuff and hadn't gone totally into the really creepy scatological stuff . Also don't pay much attention to the '71 stuff.
BUt Mothers were pretty great in the 60s and the instrumental stuff around Gran Wazoo/Waka Jawaka is pretty good too.
― Stevolende, Monday, 6 March 2017 10:07 (seven years ago) link
the Boy Wonder sessions w Burt Ward are awesome. i love "Teenage Bill of Rights".
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 14 July 2017 22:54 (six years ago) link
i love "jazz fart."
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Saturday, 15 July 2017 05:48 (six years ago) link