Frank Zappa: Classic or Dud?

If you'd told me 2 of the kids would be on the inside running the trust and 2 on the outs, peeved, I would have had the groups switched.

― kills 1.8 percent of household germs (WilliamC), Saturday, April 30, 2016 10:34 AM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah no kidding...the split between Dweezil & Ahmet is weirdly depressing to me

Frank is still outsmarting his public from beyond the grave.

There's a Zappacast (available on iTunes) called "remebering Gail Zappa" that discusses what happened before this became public. The good news is that there´s a new release announced for May (Road Tapes 3, a recording from 1970 Flo&Eddie band before they became "Vaudeville"(.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/611vGp3jKDL.jpg

Can someone photoshop this into the shape of a broken heart?

can anyone succinctly explain the gail problem? can't mess with the podcast now and am having trouble finding a straight account of the relevant events since 1993 …she was overzealous in protecting the FZ legacy? if anyone knows of a comprehensive account as such, would be grateful.

All I know is that apparently she had been giving Dweezil, her own son, special dispensation to tour Frank's music, and even then he had to pay. Or as reported in Rolling Stone:

Gail Zappa had previously allowed Dweezil to use the Zappa Plays Zappa in exchange for an "exorbitant fee."

Also notes:

In the wake of matriarch and longtime estate executrix Gail Zappa's death in October, son Ahmet Zappa was tasked with handling the day-to-day operations of his father's estate with help from youngest daughter Diva Zappa. Dweezil and Moon Unit Zappa are not trustees, but remain equal beneficiaries of their father's estate with their other two siblings.

So for whatever reason, Dweezil and Moon Unit make money from Zappa but are not trustees, and the other two are, and all four - or both pairs - are at odds.

Also, other long time tribute bands like project/object and the grandmothers were pretty much put out business by the Zappa family.

http://zappacast.podomatic.com/

I think a great way to keep Frank Zappa's legacy alive to to stop people from playing his music live (since he never gave a shot about live performance, anyway) and to put all your efforts into reissuing the back catalog for the 30th time.

since he never gave a shot about live performance, anyway

A shit or a shot? Either way, I'm not sure that's true.

It was an autocorrected joke. Zappa repeatedly more or less dismissed his records as snapshots, and promoted live music as where it was at. So it's ironic that his estate is so stuffy about letting people play his music. It would be like the Dead limiting live performances.

Yeah there's definitely something very sad about it. I've seen ZPZ and they are definitely not a cash-in, they clearly try very hard to get things right and I always thought Dweezil was doing his old man proud.

can anyone succinctly explain the gail problem? can't mess with the podcast now and am having trouble finding a straight account of the relevant events since 1993 …she was overzealous in protecting the FZ legacy? if anyone knows of a comprehensive account as such, would be grateful.

Gail ran the whole ZFT until Ahmet took over. Gail supported ZPZ but at one point Dweezil and her fell out with each other. Frank told Gail to sell the back catalog, but she decided not to and protect the whole image of FZ and everything that came with it. This is discussed extensively in the podcast about Gail (again).

I put my hopes on Alex Winter. He understands that the vault needs to be catalogued and conserved. Joe Travers can´t do everything by himself.

Ahmet's side of things in the wake of the NYT story:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/ahmet-zappa/an-open-letter-to-my-brother/10153667213097309

That $1 a year thing sounds fishy. If it sounds too good to be true ...

My guess is that yeah, it is $1 a year, but that a big percentage of tour profit gets rolled back in to the trust. So Dweezil can play Zappa for $1, but he may indeed be losing hundreds of thousands in profits going back to the trust. Which does sound a little greedy on Dweezil's part, but I guess the only way to know would be to see the breakdown of his costs.

My take: I saw these two bros a couple of times together, playing their own material. It was brilliant and a lot of fun. Saw the ZPZ tour and thought it was pretty boring. Dweezil and Frank have totally different guitar styles and I'd rather see Dweezil shredding his ultra-heavy Spinal Tap stylings than hammering out Baby Snakes etc for three hours. They should wise up and forget about the $$$, which I doubt they need.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv3sAFe1FCM

yeah, basically the idea is that the profits from any performance using Zappa's name and songs gets shared with the family, which would make sense if they were all going out there and doing this, but it's really only Dweezil, so I can see why it pisses him off.

i kinda don't get this story. the $1 thing seems entirely reasonable. it is common with legal proceedings, titles, contracts, etc. to involve such a fee. if you buy a used car you may pay this fee to buy the title.

it makes sense that they would want all the money to stay in the family. it is Frank's songs after all. i assume Frank set that up?

so it sounds like Dweezil just doesn't want to share the money w his family? or could it be more complex than that, maybe a legal attempt to restructure the family estate?

yeah, basically the idea is that the profits from any performance using Zappa's name and songs gets shared with the family, which would make sense if they were all going out there and doing this, but it's really only Dweezil, so I can see why it pisses him off.

― Check Yr Scrobbles (Moodles), Wednesday, May 4, 2016 7:24 PM (24 minutes ago)

OTM. He's doing the heavy lifting and taking on a lot of touring expenses and the other 3 kids get to sit back and be handed free money.

adminning the business end of things even on a rinky-dink operation ilke the joan crawford loves chachi band is a goddamn 8 hour a day job minimum and nobody comes up to the biz end ppl at the end of their shift and says "you kicked ass today." adminning the zappa operations is, I am 100% sure, a fucking lot of work and a shitload less glamorous than touring.

OTM. He's doing the heavy lifting and taking on a lot of touring expenses and the other 3 kids get to sit back and be handed free money.

― contains less than 2 percent of the following (WilliamC), Wednesday, May 4, 2016 8:52 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

only if he plays THESE SPECIFIC SONGS. he has the option to play his own music and keep all the money.

he has the option to play his own music and keep all the money.

All the money from the eight people interested in hearing "Blonde Hair, Brown Nose" and "Bang Your Groove Thang"?

And there it is.

yeah I feel Ahmet is being a little disingenuous bringing up the $1/year thing (like an infomercial..."less than a cup of coffee! hell, I'll pay it myself!") but having ZPZ touring is beneficial to everyone so part of me doubts they're trying to put the screws to him or anything

i finally get why Ariel Pink is compared to Zappa all the time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMdhWRO4-dQ

what a horrible song

Think of all the hard work so many people are doing to preserve the legacy of songs like that!

I'm all choked up about it.

Dweezil was doing that song with the Zappa Plays Zappa thing a few years back.

is comedy r&b really so bad

Haven't heard that one. What album's it on?

^^^ Joe's Garage

Jerk's Garbage morelike.

Try sitting thru all 3 sides of that, one of Frank's better albums, so Zappa fans tell me.

All Zappa fans?

(Jerk's Garbage is a good take, except for "Watermelon in Easter Hay" and "Outside Now")

The first album has a few funny songs (if you're 14, like I was when I first heard it); the second album is completely forgettable (at any rate, I've forgotten what it sounds like); the third album has a nice instrumental at the end.

Ha, I kind of like "Catholic Girls", despite the lyrical sentiments.

I still think "Stick it Out" and "Sy Borg" are pretty funny, just in a "what the fuck is going on?" kinda way

Apparently Frank thought so too, which is why we got Thing-Fish, THREE MORE ALBUMS full of this stuff. And yet somehow, not funny in the slightest.

I only used to listen to Joe's Garage years ago because it is one of only a couple of Zappa albums with Vinnie Colaiuta. But it's awful music. Frank was pretty much the worst part of any Zappa album. Worst singer, worst player, worst person responsible for the silly voices, dumb parody, stupid satire - and his songs ARE stupid, too. That's the must frustrating aspect of Zappa. For a guy so smart, he was so dumb. And he was a dick about it, too. "Oh, you think that's dumb? You just don't get it." "Oh, you think that's smart? Well, you're stupid, because it's just a dumb song."

I think "Watermelon in Easter Hay" is one of the best things he ever did. It wouldn't occur to me to listen to that whole album, though.

For a guy so smart, he was so dumb. And he was a dick about it, too. "Oh, you think that's dumb? You just don't get it." "Oh, you think that's smart? Well, you're stupid, because it's just a dumb song."

Yep that's Frank in a nutshell right there. I'm always astounded by stuff like "Billy the Mountain", which features so many different sections and riffs and little bits that have to be syncopated perfectly to work, and yet the whole thing is so stupid and irritating, he's like a guy who spent five years learning to fart Beethoven's 9th.

I'd enjoy more of it as cartoon music music on par with Raymond Scott if he weren't so snide. I also have a low threshold for widdly guitar in the Zappa/McLaughlin mold.

Well, to start with, John McLaughlin is a much better guitarist than Zappa; I don't know any guitarist who thinks very highly of Zappa the musician, let alone improvisational musician, and there's a reason he hired so many "stunt guitarists." But anyway, what I was saying was that Zappa is the worst aspect of pretty much all Zappa. If everything stayed the same but he was gone it'd probably be a tolerable listen.

Not sure the stunt guitarists and various vocalists do too much to improve matters.

Anyway I guess Dweezil's side is coming so things are probably about to get worse

Kinda feel bad that Frank's legacy being dragged through this but then I remember how he treated the original MOI and did that horrible We're Only in it For the Money remaster with the sole purpose of cutting them out of their share, so yeah, guess this runs in the family

I've tried with Zappa, many times, but in the end I've had to admit it just sounds like a very, very musically advanced student comedy revue.

he's like a guy who spent five years learning to fart Beethoven's 9th.

Yep

... hold on there, I've never heard that given as the reason for the WOIIFTM re-recordings.

Frank never admitted to it but I think that was definitely the reason. This FAQ kinda explains it:

http://lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/misc/why.html

Basically - FZ claimed the original tapes were too damaged and the bass and drums needed to be re-recorded, but a number of People Who Were There claim this is not actually true.

(I guess denying royalties was not the 'sole purpose' - but definitely a big factor his decision, given how stingy he was with those guys)

I heard the damaged tapes story, also that he thought the playing basically sucked.