Best Herbie Hancock (As Leader) Album Poll of 1960s/70s/80s era.

I wonder how a Miles Davis vs Herbie Hancock 1970-1975 poll would do.

Shall I do that?

I like picturing Herbie messing around in a huge room full of synthesizers and making his amused Herbie faces.

Have you seen the back cover of Sunlight?

Btw, is it true that Miles was angry for Herbie for him managing to do the fusion thing Miles had already started, only with more commercial success than Miles ever had?

i'm sure miles was slightly annoyed about that. what's really interesting is that Miles actually *opened* for Herbie on several occasions in the mid 70s (post Head Hunters I presume) -- an arrangement that must've been awkward for all parties involved.

Wayne Shorter probably had equal if not bigger commercial success with Weather Report, I'd imagine.

I got a new (old) turntable and was able to listen to Thrust last night, it is awesome. The Palm Grease break must have been sampled in a ton of rap tunes, right?

I thought, this being ILM, "Mwandishi" might have won this

I love Actual Proof. Mike Clark is tops on that one.

I thought that The Blood Donor might have won.

So Marcello is back,eh?

John Coltrane (as Leader) Albums Poll

I thought, this being ILM, "Mwandishi" might have won this

Sextant has always been the ILM pick though I think.

Wayne Shorter probably had equal if not bigger commercial success with Weather Report, I'd imagine.

Weather Report never had anything close to the commercial success of "Rockit", or even "You Bet Your Love".

As far as album sales went, both were surpassed by Mezzoforte and Spyro Gyra. For a short while at least.

I think Head Hunters was the best selling jazz album ever for quite some while, until Kind of Blue finally passed it. I'm not sure if this happened during Miles's lifetime though.

I never get fed up with either of those albums actually. Listened to head Hunters and the Mwandishi era cds last night.

Now it's time for Man-Child.

Tuomas , I'm sure I read somewhere that Head Hunters was still the biggest seller.

According to the RIAA site, nowadays Kind of Blue is triple platinum, whereas Head Hunters is only single platinum. That's only US sales tough, I'm not sure if the rest of the world would compensate. I think I read somewhere that Kind of Blue passed Head Hunters in sales as late as 1994 though. Maybe it was around that time that it had become cemented as the jazz album everyone should own? Or was it so in the eighties already?

About the Herbie/Miles competition in the seventies: to me at least it seems obvious that, after the Mwandishi era, Herbie's approach to fusion was notably more populist (which doesn't necessarily mean worse) than Miles's, so could his bigger success really have been that big a surprise to Miles? Or maybe that was the exact reason Miles was angry to Herbie, that he had sold out? On the other hand, I remember reading in some Miles biography (maybe his autobiography?) that he really expected On the Corner to be hip and popular, which, in light of the actual music, seems way too optimistic.

I wonder if Head Hunters sells nowadays. It's never the token jazz album in the best album ever lists in magazines like A Kind Of Blue Is

I thought Dave Brubeck's "Time Out" was the bestselling jazz album ever.

I'm fairly sure Headhunters was a much bigger seller than Time Out, but the issue is whether it gets defined as jazz or not. Among the "traditional jazz" albums I think it's either KOB or Time Out.

although I didn't see the tuomas post saying that KOB was bigger than Headhunters. But I wouldn't be surprised if KOB has surpassed Time Out by now with all the attention it gets as "greatest jazz album of all time," etc.

It is the token jazz album for many.

Time Out was the best selling jazz album for quite a while, but I think Head Hunters passed it at some point, and now KoB has passed them both. At least in the US Time Out and HH are both only single platinum, whereas KoB is triple platinum. Does anyone if there's any site which would show worldwide sales of albums?

None that I know of. Maybe DJ Martian will know.

I'd be disappointed if he didn't.
Are there any good Herbie Hancock books about?

Only one , and on Head Hunters it seems
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Head-Hunters-Making-Platinum-Perspectives/dp/0472114174/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197853403&sr=1-4
Bit expensive as well.

How much did "Future Shock" sell, and does it count as a jazz album?

oh i love 'maiden voyage.' and 'headhunters.' 'headhunters' was the first herbie hancock set i heard. we were on the salt flats. and a track from 'future shock' is so good, robotsinheat.com (no that's not me but the track's there).

why wouldn't future shock count?

Because it's not jazz really. Not that this makes it any better or worse, but I think calling Future Shock or Perfect Machine jazz would stretch the definition of jazz meaningless. Out of three Laswell-produced albums I think only Sound-System might have enough jazz elements to fit into some wide definition of the word.

Similarly, I'd call Lite Me Up R&B, not jazz.

Jazz is about pushing the boundaries though.

Yeah, but do you think any album someone known primarily as a jazz musician releases is automatically jazz? Perfect Machine and Lite Me Up have hardly any improvised parts, I'd say that is the minimum requirement to call something jazz.

"Tutu" is often counted as not jazz, isn't it?

Tuomas is correct I guess.

Because it's not jazz really. Not that this makes it any better or worse, but I think calling Future Shock or Perfect Machine jazz would stretch the definition of jazz meaningless.

can_o_worms.jpeg

I don't think so. Can of worms would be saying that something like Sextant or Bitches Brew or Head Hunters isn't really jazz (which is not what I think), but an album like Perfect Machine is so far removed from jazz, I don't think anyone who'd listen to it without knowing it was released under a jazz musician's name would call it that.

Someone on here would argue otherwise though, which is probably what he meant.

My mates bringing over the 1st Herbie solo cd that i havent heard.

Was the Donald Byrd - Blackbyrd album the biggest seller until Headhunters?

I am pretty sure that must have been "Time Out" by Dave Brubeck.

I'm sure I read somewhere Blackbyrd sold shitloads in the 70s. It was definitely the biggest Blue Note album ever at the time I think.

And was seen as Donald Byrd selling out by going funk and is said to be the beginning of the end for Blue Note as lots of jazz bands went funk.

'man-child' is remarkable, i feel like it's one of those HH '70s records w/a middling reputation that (much like 'sunlight' recently) should probably undergo critical rehab.

getting acquainted with speak like a child finally and what a perfect little record

yeah that's a really nice one

It's funny how these polls shake out - I'd probably pick Sextant over Headhunters too, and yet it feels wrong somehow to see Sextant get like 4x the votes of Headhunters when Headhunters is the one with *those funky jams everyone knows and loves*