Prince RIP

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I think his skills on everything but drums were ace. Drums, he was good but nothing special (apparently Morris Day is/was a killer drummer).

if there was one area Prince showed no signs of decline in it was his chops as a performer. his material might not have been up to snuff, but his voice, guitar playing etc. remained undiminished.

Yeah, this is exactly what I meant. As a recording artist, sure, a huge hunk of his catalog is worthless, in my opinion, though never because he declined as a singer/guitarist/producer, just because (often) he switched tacks/styles/bands and so on. But while his performances changed, he remained totally on-point, unless, for whatever reason, he didn't feel like doing what he did best (i.e. ceding singing to backing vocalists, playing covers, not playing guitar, all things he did or did not do in recent years for some reason). And when Prince was great, it was never "he was great for an old person," or "welcome back," and so on. It was all on par with tremendous expectations.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:05 (eight years ago) link

I've seen him at an after show play bass on Days of Wild and I would, without hesitation, rate him as a bassist. It didn't feel like there was a plan or a setlist, he just wandered over and tapped her on the shoulder and took her bass and played and then everyone in the room had to relocate their knees and pick themselves off the floor. You know that feeling when the bottom of your eyes widen without your eyebrows even having time to go up? That.

Popture, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:10 (eight years ago) link

piano, bass, and drum skills?

I rate him pretty highly, just based on his recorded output, on piano and especially synthesizer. Not Stevie Wonder-level but v close. On bass he was quite good, drums = proficient.

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:10 (eight years ago) link

his drumming is really underrated - he did the first three songs on parade in sequence IIRC, in one take. he wasnt super flashy, but i like his drumming on dirty mind a lot. hes got a certain personality as a drummer, a bit like stevie wonder.

any guy that played the bassline of lets work is ok with me. but im not sure you would think of there being a 'prince bassline'. IMO he was more interesting for what he did with bass, esp slap bass, than actual fluid basslines.

im not an expert but hes obviously a great, if not distinct pianist. i think this might be the main criticism of prince as a musician, that hes technically astonishing at everything he played, but perhaps lacks a concrete identity, in the way that say, santana or hendrix did.

StillAdvance, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:12 (eight years ago) link

Me: "Mr. Nelson, may I ask you a question?"

Prince: "Mr. Nelson? I don't see my father in here, HAHAHA! What is it dear?"

Me: "What is that scent you're wearing, it's amazing!"

Prince: "Magic."

this guy

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:13 (eight years ago) link

yeah I totally rate his synth and programming skills, especially on 1999. Anyone found good live synth clips?

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:13 (eight years ago) link

BTW, a lot of guitar friends of mine don't really rate Prince that highly as a lead guitarist. I should say, they think he's a really good guitarist, just not that special/original (the distortion, wah etc. does a lot of the heavy lifting). But what blows them away is his subtle rhythm playing, like the stuff at the end of "Lady Cab Driver."

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:14 (eight years ago) link

There's some Prince organ/synth soloing here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BuCppIjBKg

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:16 (eight years ago) link

Prince as a guitarist is pretty identifiable to me, maybe not on other instruments, but for someone like him, just as other songwriters work with session guys or a band to support their vision, I view his instrumental skills as support for himself -- the overall vision was his genius, and his singing and guitar playing (which are arguably the same kind of gift) the most immediately distinctive.

Dominique, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:16 (eight years ago) link

BTW, a lot of guitar friends of mine don't really rate Prince that highly as a lead guitarist. I should say, they think he's a really good guitarist, just not that special/original (the distortion, wah etc. does a lot of the heavy lifting). But what blows them away is his subtle rhythm playing, like the stuff at the end of "Lady Cab Driver."

Agree with his

Radio Free European Son (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:17 (eight years ago) link

his synths and drum programming in the 80s were incredible. 1999 is so brilliant because of that.

the guitar work on SOTT in the SOTT movie makes me wish prince got into alt/noise-rock more :)

StillAdvance, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:17 (eight years ago) link

yeah let's not forget: the other instrument besides guitar on which Prince was a master was the Linn drum

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:18 (eight years ago) link

yeah i wish he found a new drum machine in the 90s to work with rather than the NPG

"But what blows them away is his subtle rhythm playing, like the stuff at the end of "Lady Cab Driver"

prince is one of my fave rhythm guitarists ever. so, so tight and incredible. the little choppy parts (which he didnt play i know, but im sure he told his guitarist what to play) in that live version of hot thing posted upthread are amazing.

StillAdvance, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:19 (eight years ago) link

But what blows them away is his subtle rhythm playing, like the stuff at the end of "Lady Cab Driver."

the economy of his rhythm parts is remarkable, compact but with tons of distinctive fluorishes

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:20 (eight years ago) link

yeah let's not forget: the other instrument besides guitar on which Prince was a master was the Linn drum

777-9311 alone earns him a spot on the drum programming Mount Rushmore

Davey D, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:21 (eight years ago) link

Yeah, I with you. Here's a guy welcome on anyone's list of the best lead guitarists of all time who's content and disciplined enough to play rhythm on any given song to the point that for decades you had to make a case in the public consciousness for his guitar chops. I've always been amazed by the rhythm work on 1999. And, as I said upthread, here's a guy who could do anything the instrument was capable of but then played like he did on The Cross?

Popture, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:21 (eight years ago) link

i wish he found a new drum machine in the 90s to work with rather than the NPG

^^^this. relistening to the NPG stuff man I really just hate a lot of those players, including and maybe especially the drummer, it is a real bummer he couldn't keep some version of the Revolution together.

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:21 (eight years ago) link

I never saw a Prince concer live. Well, I kind of did. I was with friends at Coachella festival. It was before it completely turned into the circus it is now, but it was well on its way. And someone who's thankfully not in my life anymore really had to leave, so we left less than halfway into Prince's performance.

What I saw was amazing. That show has been uploaded in the last week, and it's how I remember it -- Prince was a little late taking the stage, but once he did, it was electric. I was wondering who would be in the live lineup, and the first part of the show was half-introduction, half showcase. Morris Day! Sheila E!

I still get the chills thinking about how crazy it was, and I barely saw anything at all. I'd planned to go see him the next time I could, and I completely failed to do so.

μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:22 (eight years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPCbe_rFwc8 Counterpoint to Prince not being able to play lead.

Popture, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:23 (eight years ago) link

"for decades you had to make a case in the public consciousness for his guitar chops"

he just made the song the most important thing above all else at that point. so even though he had a great ego, he never got indulgent. not until much later anyway. its prob why he seemed to make a point in the recent hit n run shows to just let rip at every given opportunity, in case anyone didnt realise.

StillAdvance, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:25 (eight years ago) link

actually, now i remember why in the 80s, thats why his shows were so lauded. cos on record youd get a great pop production, but live, it was a totally different animal.

StillAdvance, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:26 (eight years ago) link

friend said there's a rumor that the SOTT movie is going to get a limited theatrical re-release, really hope that's true my VHS copy is long dead

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:27 (eight years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BuCppIjBKg

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:29 (eight years ago) link

Shit, my bad. This:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjG6eIsfowo

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:29 (eight years ago) link

the lovesexy piano medley is all time classic. not just for the playing - strange relationship esp, but for his facial expressions. greatest piano *performer* since little richard.

StillAdvance, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:32 (eight years ago) link

On musical ability, I think it would be safe to say that Prince's ideas were never limited by his ability to express them.

Popture, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:37 (eight years ago) link

D'Angelo wrecked me, full tears at my desk.

universal hug to D for nailing it, goddamn

Flamenco Drop (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:38 (eight years ago) link

Oh man I will see the shit outta theatrical SOTT rerelease. I saw it on its first release (har mar mall y'all) and it still gives me the memory illusion of having seen Prince

scarcity festival (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:40 (eight years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPwm6YHmlFU This is how I remember him live. Endlessly playful. Check the Sweet Thing cover.

Popture, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:47 (eight years ago) link

I think his skills on everything but drums were ace. Drums, he was good but nothing special (apparently Morris Day is/was a killer drummer).

I disagree man, I like his drumming a lot and he definitely has a style. Especially when he's playing over drum machines, but you can hear the same style on 'Dirty Mind' too. Simple grooves, but with these left-hand, offbeat-heavy fills on the hi-hat and snare that have a lot of personality. 'Lady Cab Driver' is a great example of this, there's a breakdown that's almost a drum solo over the Linn beat.

Questlove had some story about sitting in with Prince, and he said that the way to make Prince happy as a drummer is to sound like him.

sam jax sax jam (Jordan), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:51 (eight years ago) link

yeah I totally rate his synth and programming skills, especially on 1999. Anyone found good live synth clips?

Love this bit from Matt Fink re: "The Beautiful Ones" --

When I first heard "The Beautiful Ones" my first thought was, "How the hell am I going to pull that off?" Because back then Prince was running those Oberheim synthesizers in the studio. He was timing all these crazy portamento slides that are happening throughout that song, especially towards the end. On the old Oberheim keyboards there were eight voices to them. You could only play eight notes at once. And then you could have the portamento set-up and play one note and it would slide and then you could time the next one and it would do a slide as you are holding another note down. You could have different notes playing different portamento rates. So when you hear "The Beautiful Ones" you are listening to all these notes sliding up to each other at different timings.

In order to accomplish this Prince had to turn the volume down; touch those notes; and get them into place. And then within those chords you had to time them to do the slides individually. Remember, this wasn't sequenced. This was all done live, and I used to pull that off every night on stage. But it was a very tricky, technical process. "The Beautiful Ones" is my favorite song on Purple Rain because it's orchestrated in such a unique way. Prince created this other world using synthesizers, guitars, pianos, lots of digital delay, and reverb. And the vocals are just ridiculous.

a 47-year-old chainsaw artist from South Carolina (Phil D.), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:56 (eight years ago) link

love that. Which oberheim would that be?

scarcity festival (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:00 (eight years ago) link

but you can hear the same style on 'Dirty Mind' too. Simple grooves, but with these left-hand, offbeat-heavy fills on the hi-hat and snare that have a lot of personality.

OTM. His drumming on Dirty Mind is so utterly killer; more amazingly, as Al pointed out, he was so brilliant as a Linn programmer that you didn't miss his acoustic drumming.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:01 (eight years ago) link

xp given the time, I'd have to guess the OB-8?

a 47-year-old chainsaw artist from South Carolina (Phil D.), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:04 (eight years ago) link

I also remember a quote from him, maybe in an old Modern Drummer, where he talks about programming drums and then layering enough live drums and percussion on top until it sounded like a human groove.

sam jax sax jam (Jordan), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:06 (eight years ago) link

did prince play drums on the recording of "another lonely christmas"? those drums are incredible

HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:10 (eight years ago) link

Yeah, it's like, in the Syracuse '85 video the drummer (arg, can't remember his name) is often playing around the programming, filling in here and there, maybe adding a hi-hat where no programmed hi-hat exists...and it all sounds completely of a piece. It does not sound like two separate entities.

xp

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:11 (eight years ago) link

anyway i finally found a compilation of all his 12" extended mixes from 1980-1990 basically and imo this is the richest music

HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:12 (eight years ago) link

Yup the 12" are just a treasure world made for all day shuffling

scarcity festival (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:17 (eight years ago) link

Re Prince as guitarist, I'd love a full album of stuff like "Alexa De Paris"

Master of Treacle, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:18 (eight years ago) link

Prince's guitar: I'm not sure how virtuosic his guitar playing was in terms of solo technique, I'm sure it was excellent, but what made Prince an amazing guitar player was his ability to coax that pure emotion out of the instrument, and knowing exactly what notes to play, etc.

Prince as a bass player: his strength to me wasn't those amazing melodic fluid basslines that James Jamerson laid down on the regular, but some incredible bass riffs like on Lady Cab Driver and Sign O' The Times. His bass playing and interplay with Sheila E's drums is one of the best things about Lovesexy for me.

As a piano player: I'm a keyboard player and from what I've seen and heard he's a very expressive player with very good technique. He probably did a good amount of his writing on the keys. When he lets loose like on "Strange Relationship" from the Lovesexy tour piano medley he can rock the shit out of the instrument. He's also obviously very capable of playing pretty too, like he did on his version of Joni's "A Case of You"

thom yorke state of mind (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:19 (eight years ago) link

xps I own a dozen of the 12" singles, and I could use a dozen more tbh

the 'major tom guy' (sleeve), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:20 (eight years ago) link

wheeeerre is this 12" extended mixes comp ... i had something a while ago, can't seem to find it now.

tylerw, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:21 (eight years ago) link

^

how's life, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:21 (eight years ago) link

yeah I would listen to that

I have several 12"s (Let's Go Crazy/Erotic City, I Wish You Heaven, Scandalous suite, etc.) but I know I'm missing a bunch

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:24 (eight years ago) link

That D'angelo performance was making me cry and then I realized he looked like a silly creampuff and couldn't stop laughing.

kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:25 (eight years ago) link

lemme know if y'all got my emails

HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:25 (eight years ago) link

I know you can get all the 12"s from a few hq sources on P1rat3 B4y.

a 47-year-old chainsaw artist from South Carolina (Phil D.), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:26 (eight years ago) link

my webmail thang is on an ages-old email account ... could you send one to tywilc @ gmail.com, brad? THANK YOU.

tylerw, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:27 (eight years ago) link


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