An ILX roundtable discussion of Beyonce's Lemonade for people who don't feel like listening to it right now.

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Yeah, Snapple and Arizona taste so ridiculously sweet to me now, since 90 percent of the time I drink Pure Leaf unsweetened black tea.

the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 12:32 (three years ago) link

i still haven't listened to Lemonade yet, but while making dinner last night i listened to Hyaena by Siouxsie and the Banshees and all i can say is wow what a record! i mean i've been listening to it since 1984 but it never fails to amaze. who on earth could make a record like THAT in 2016?? also, "blow the house down" is mad underrated.

last great siouxsie album? a controversial statement, but it could very well be.


scott seward, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 13:06 (three years ago) link

also, is there anyone who can produce such cataclysmic and monumental releases that fade so easily from memory?

I kind of want to talk about this. I'm pretty sure I've heard the last several Beyonce records but, like, Traffic and Blind Faith and a couple of other acts, I just can't recall how any of them go, at least not since "Single Ladies." Even the last one, which had "Drunk in Love," right? People said they heard it a million times, but I don't think I've ever heard it out and about! And I certainly can't hum it now. Did it get played on the radio? In clubs? Because I have kids, and they listen to radio pop, and they never talk about Beyonce the way they seem to know, say, Nicki Minaj or Rihanna or Selena Gomez or Demi Lovato. A bunch of buddies bought tickets to see Beyonce this May. I gave my wife the OK, but I decided to stay home. I've seen Beyonce before and don't remember a darn thing about it, and as much as people rave about her live, it seems to still follow the standard song-dance-costume change pattern of arena pop. It kind of makes me feel bad to be the killjoy. I'm not even sure her singing has made an impression on me, but my wife knows people who have worked with her, and they said her skin is so beautiful she barely needs makeup.

Anyway, I really liked Siouxsie's "Kiss Them for Me" single. Was that album any good? I liked the "Batman" song, too, but I don't think I ever really got into any Banshees albums.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 13:48 (three years ago) link

Beyonce's not played much outside R&B radio these days.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 13:50 (three years ago) link

Ha, so much for "post-genre" or whatever.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:01 (three years ago) link

So strange, listening to the s/t now, and even though I'm sure I've heard it before, it's like I've never heard it before! Anyway, sounds good. Good job, Beyonce.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:04 (three years ago) link

I haven't heard this album but I finally listened to "Formation"

ejemplo (crüt), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:05 (three years ago) link

the radio where i live sucks soooooooooo bad. it's the worst ever. we were driving thru springfield a little bit ago and we picked up some hartford station that was playing awesome pop/r&b and it was so hot and i was like omg we have to move to hartford! or springfield! and then i was like fuck that i'm not doing that but i miss that station so much.

scott seward, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:07 (three years ago) link

Is "Haven't heard Beyonce's Lemonade yet" a condition that I could put down when I sign up for a comfort animal?

Blowout Coombes (President Keyes), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:09 (three years ago) link

prob 93.7 xp

johnny crunch, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:10 (three years ago) link

beyonce has never written anything this good or meaningful

― And the cry rang out all o'er the town / Good Heavens! Tay is down (imago), Tuesday, April 26, 2016 6:24 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm pretty sure you posted the wrong link

thom yorke state of mind (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:13 (three years ago) link

flipping through the radio dial in the car where i am is like this: commercial/journey/NPfuckinR/katy perry/shitty country/fuzak/kings of leon/journey/shit country/arcade fire/katy perry/fuckin' terry gross/all about the bass bout that bass no treble/journey/endless country list song/van hagar/commercial.

scott seward, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:13 (three years ago) link

I think I just hit "Drunk In Love," and nope, never heard it! Wait, have I heard "Hotline Bling?" Or any Drake? OK, I'm going to check that out now.

Hmm why is youtube suddenly delivering all my commercials en espanol? OK, anyway, I've heard people sing "Hotline Bling," but I don't think I've ever heard it! At least not all the way through, and not now. OK, Drake's "Take Care" album, skipping around ... no, I guess I never listened to this either. Sounds OK, though. What were the singles, "Headlines" and "Make Me Proud?" No, nothing, don't think I've heard them. What was his first album, "Thank Me Later?" OK, skipping around... "Over" and "Find Me Later" the first two singles? OK, they sound OK, but never heard them, either! Clearly this is my problem, not his. I don't think I've ever heard Fall Out Boy, and I live in Chicago.

OK, back to Beyonce.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:20 (three years ago) link

We have satellite radio and the kids like Hits (self-explanatory) and Venus ("rhythmic pop"). The latter in particular seems like it would play Beyonce, but I'm not so sure. I think to hear her I need to listen to "The Heat" ("today's hottest R&B hits"). I really like satellite radio, I like that I can easily flit from extreme metal to old school hip-hop.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:23 (three years ago) link

Josh, I dunno what you're listening to but "Hotline Bling" was the most popular song in the country for months. I was hearing it three times a day at least.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:25 (three years ago) link

I know, it's nuts! So weird to me that I missed it.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:32 (three years ago) link

Maybe I've been doing more reading than watching or listening, because none of these have passed me by. I know they're popular, and I know the artists, and I know the memes ... Whatever. It's not like I go through life with a big sad Beyonce or Drake sized hole in my soul. I'll deal.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:34 (three years ago) link

i feel like this record is probably good because her last one was good and so was formation but the hyperbole is out of control

Treeship, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:38 (three years ago) link

i'm really grossed out by the beyonce fans who are harrassing jay-z's alleged mistress (and her teenage daughter!) online. the whole gossip-blogs-the-musical component of this just feels tawdry. she should just divorce jay-z or whatever, it's pretty obvious he's a conceited asshole.

Treeship, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:40 (three years ago) link

Wow. Now that gossip stuff, I've missed that and am happy to miss it. I am liking the s/t a lot, though, at least in preparation for the new album. Maybe it just didn't click with me at the time, but it sounds great this morning.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:43 (three years ago) link

Beyonce's not played much outside R&B radio these days.
my wife and i were just saying last night that the 2 R&B stations out here (denver area) never seem to play Beyonce! and that's pretty much what we listen to in the car... seems weird.

tylerw, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:48 (three years ago) link

So I'm not crazy?

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:52 (three years ago) link

i was never really a jay-z fan. he's kinda after my time and that might have something to do with it. kinda like when people a little younger than me talk about how much they loved sick of it all. i liked those jaz records that jay-z was on. that's more my era. (though i do love lots of 90's rap...just never listened to jay-z that much. or biggie. i still listen to illmatic to this day though...)

scott seward, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:55 (three years ago) link

I never could remember the difference between Sick of It All and Biohazard.

how's life, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:59 (three years ago) link

i can't believe on a thread about lemonade we end up discussing a massively famous music singer.

japanese mage (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 15:15 (three years ago) link

can't we discuss lemonade for once???

japanese mage (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 15:15 (three years ago) link

waht's the best lemon booze drink? i love lemons so much.

scott seward, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 15:18 (three years ago) link

i'm not really much of a mixologist at home. i don't have the fixings. when we go out to eat somewhere i love getting a cocktail. (i don't go to bars either...)

scott seward, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 15:19 (three years ago) link

so there's this kid -- maybe 10 or 11? -- who has been setting up a lemonade stand directly in front of our house regularly, and it kind of irks me. shouldn't she be doing it in front of her own house? what if my kid wanted to have a lemonade stand? that would be awkward. it's kind of a "hot" corner in the neighborhood, so she's totally cleaning up. should i demand a cut of her earnings?

tylerw, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 15:20 (three years ago) link

I wish Charles Mingus had left us a lemonade recipe to go with his eggnog. Maybe I can make one up.

LEMONADE (in the style of Charles Mingus)

Take 6 lemons (or 12 or 20, depending on how many people)
Squeeze out all the juice, try to not get too many seeds in
Add about a cup of water per lemon
A pound or two of sugar
A fifth of whiskey (I like bourbon, but rye will work)
Maybe some cherry brandy
Throw some mint leaves in there
Stir, serve over ice

A nationally known air show announcer/personality (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 15:20 (three years ago) link

last time we went out to eat at my friend's brick oven pizza place i got a ginger margarita and it was the best thing. ginger salt! i had two of them...

scott seward, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 15:21 (three years ago) link

I'm definitely going to try that vanilla-thyme lemonade from upthread. I never thought about putting either of those things in lemonade.

how's life, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 15:26 (three years ago) link

I like lemonade a lot. When I was little and lived in California it was so easy to set up a lemonade stand. Now and here it's a little tougher, but I do find it interesting that every kid I know (ours and others) pretty much always ends up donating lemonade stand proceeds to charity.

I have a good friend whose drink of choice is Mike's Hard Lemonade, which is so gross.

So many cocktails require lemon - almost most of them - but I can't think of many lemonade cocktails. It's just there to work with the sweet and strong.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 15:26 (three years ago) link

Homemade Red Kola can be made by mixing vimto cordial and lemonade.

Romeo Daltrey (Tom D.), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 15:27 (three years ago) link

Romeo Daltrey (Tom D.), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 15:41 (three years ago) link

TRUE or FALSE: NABISCO is on the money:

It’s not as if I made some principled choice not to listen to it. It’s just that Beyoncé released “Formation” on a Saturday, and then performed it at the Super Bowl on Sunday, and as of Monday I hadn’t gotten around to it, for reasons that are incredibly uninteresting: I happened to have been doing other stuff, which seems as if it’s probably among my rights as an American.

By then, though, the song had become such an intense focus of discussion at the digital water cooler — to the point where it felt difficult to turn on a computer without someone’s views about “Formation” and its various sociopolitical valences reaching out and grasping for your throat — that my not having heard it acquired some kind of political dimension. A decision had to be made. Either I needed to dutifully consume this object of conversation and develop an opinion about it or I needed to develop a defense of why I hadn’t yet done so.

The point being: Here, for a moment, was music that actively dragooned me into paying attention to it, based not primarily on sound, performance or composition, but on the rolling snowball of perspectives, close readings and ideological disputes accreting around it.

It’s songs that do this now; individual songs and mass opinion, working in tandem. This wasn’t always the case. We’ve spent the past century or so trying, in creaky and convulsive ways, to figure out what music is even for, and how we intend to use it. When and where will we listen to it? Will other people be there? Should people own music? Who should write it — the performers? What’s a normal amount to release at once? How will we find out about it? Will there be pictures? Are you absolutely, definitely sure we have to pay money for it? For the moment, there’s only one answer to these questions that seems to connect strangers in a truly monocultural way: We shall gather in huge, fawning riots around towering pop singles to trade politicized takes on them.

It’s not the worst thing. One of the great tricks of pop music is that no matter how much we like to imagine it’s about musicians expressing themselves, it tends to be more useful as a way for listeners to figure out their own identities: Each song lets us try on a new way of being in the world. For a long while, the idea was that young people could use music to shape their style — their clothes, their haircuts, their sense of cool. Then came high-speed Internet and a touching enthusiasm for the idea of playlists: With so much of the world’s music at our fingertips, we’d express our intelligence and taste by playing D.J. and curator, sorting through songs to assemble our own reflections. That didn’t last, either. Showing off your eclectic, handpicked treasures? This has become such a common online performance that there’s no one left in the audience.

So these days it’s the song, and the scale of the event surrounding it. One song, one digestible thing, with millions of people standing in a circle around it, pointing and shouting and writing about it, conducting one gigantic online undergraduate seminar about it, metabolizing it on roughly the same level that cable-news debate shows metabolize a political speech. This is an ever-greater share of the public life of music. A song like “Formation” isn’t set up as a story, or an interior monologue — it’s set up as Beyoncé, the public celebrity whose biography you already know, addressing the world, like an op-ed with drums. Thus can we argue not about what the song says to us, but about what we think the rest of the world needs to be told, and whether Beyoncé is telling it right. What do we make of her dancers’ Black Panther styling? Is she “allowed” to work with beloved artists from New Orleans or use references to the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina? How does the song sound through a feminist lens, through a queer lens, through an anticapitalist one? Can we have a conversation about her daughter’s hair, and also about police violence? People talked about these things until, three days in, I’d been quoted every last line of a song I still hadn’t heard.

We’ve found a way to collect around the handful of songs we all have in common, yoke them with our opinions and make a (mostly) joyful noise. I don’t begrudge Beyoncé or the world one second of it. But it does throw into stark relief the things we have a much harder time talking about, at least with strangers: the way songs make us feel, the things we discover in them that aren’t already on other people’s minds, the obscure pleasures we’re willing to risk trying to explain from the darkness. The ever-larger private life of music. How do we talk about that? ♦

scott seward, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 15:47 (three years ago) link

(all rights reserved nabzyorktimes/2016)

scott seward, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 15:48 (three years ago) link

it is the worst thing

japanese mage (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 15:49 (three years ago) link

Echo chamber pop.

I think that if Beyonce danced to an instrumental at the Super Bowl people still would have had digital water cooler debates or whatever. Because Super Bowl, and people are dumb, and people are smart, and love and hate Beyonce/women/black people/dancing/fun/halftime shows.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 15:51 (three years ago) link

Damn Nabisco, back at it again with the OTMs.

JWoww Gilberto (man alive), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 15:54 (three years ago) link

a: don't talk about it. definitely don't talk about it online.

map, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 16:04 (three years ago) link

There is definitely a feeling for me that I can't even tell what I think about Formation as a song, because it's an event more than a song. It may be a song that 10-20 years from now I look back on as innovative, but right now it feels lost in the noise.

JWoww Gilberto (man alive), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 16:06 (three years ago) link

these pictures are so great!

scott seward, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 16:11 (three years ago) link

this vegetarian cookbook i have has a pretty good recipe for mint lemonade. the cookbook lady tends to favor blander recipes than i would like, it's taken me a few years to realize this. but a lot of the non-traditional ingredient combos are a good foundation, i say foundation, because i'm not vegetarian, but i will take her acorn squash kale thing and add chicken. But the lemonade recipe doesn't suffer from her "over-subtlety"

sarahell, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 16:36 (three years ago) link

for a cocktail, it would probably be great with vodka. You can pretty much add vodka to anything.

sarahell, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 16:36 (three years ago) link

Those pictures are amazing.

Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 16:37 (three years ago) link

last great siouxsie album? a controversial statement, but it could very well be.

No way, Scott. You're way off. Tinderbox and Peepshow are easily just as good as Hyæna. And Through the Looking Glass is at least good fun.

Austin, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 16:41 (three years ago) link

the hambloggler

a 47-year-old chainsaw artist from South Carolina (Phil D.), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 13:26 (three years ago) link

Some people assume that there are red-colored berries responsible for this oddity

Ha, it never occurred to me to think that pink lemonade was pink because of anything other than a dye.

Hi! I'm twice-coloured! (Sund4r), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 15:44 (three years ago) link

that blogger who wrote about the designer chocolate fraud people should for real get a Pulitzer! that shit was riveting. especially the original posts he did on the Texas chocolatier fraudsters. the one before the mast brothers bombshell. although the mast brothers one was good too. he should win for that.

scott seward, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:13 (three years ago) link

I was kinda crazy about Destiny's Child back in the day and was all about solo Bey but then I've just realized that I haven't listened to an entire album of hers since B'Day. And I even bought the one that she released really cheap that one time. What, the fourth one? I don't know. I chalk my lapse up more to my near-complete disengagement from pop music over the past decade than anything personal against Ms. Knowles-Z.

Your Ass Is Grass And I Will Mow It With My Face (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 16:55 (three years ago) link

it's all starting to feel like homework

mandatory sex webinar (contenderizer), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:31 (three years ago) link

Iggy Azalea: Rapper Criticizes 'Becky' Lyric on Beyoncé's 'Lemonade' Album
"Generalizing ANY race by calling them one sterotypical name for said race. i personally dont think is very cool, the end," Azalea tweeted

JWoww Gilberto (man alive), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 18:36 (three years ago) link

Trump/Azalea '16

evol j, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 18:41 (three years ago) link

JWoww Gilberto (man alive), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 18:41 (three years ago) link

i used to love lemonade but true story on saturday i drove by a lemonade stand some kids were selling it so i bought a tiny plastic cup of lemonade for a dollar and so help me god i have been vomiting and pooping ever since, it is so nasty to be me right now and i think i may have dysentery so lemonade is not my thing right now

kornrulez6969, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 19:10 (three years ago) link

my son had a lemonade stand the day after this album dropped in commemoration of it. kind of. actually it was more because we were able to steal 30 lemons off the tree at the house next door which is empty for the time being.

akm, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 19:48 (three years ago) link

I ran a stand a couple times -- didn't really learn "hard work" but I did get introduced to the concepts of expenses, revenue, profit, like a little lightbulb went on that we spent a certain amount on the ingredients and needed to subtract that out of what we made.

JWoww Gilberto (man alive), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 19:51 (three years ago) link

Basically it was economically empowering. I slay.

JWoww Gilberto (man alive), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 19:52 (three years ago) link

Not that excited about this new album but really looking forward to the follow-up, 'Round The Corner Fudge Is Made.

Your Ass Is Grass And I Will Mow It With My Face (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 19:53 (three years ago) link

awful but I keep thinking about that too

akm, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 19:55 (three years ago) link

the lemonade stand was great, he and his friend made $12 which they split evenly. My son decided that when the lemonade was 3/4 gone they should raise the price of what was left; he stumbled on the basics of scarcity in economics on his own at age 10. he didn't move forward on this capitalist scheme though. also he charged our dog 25 cents for a tiny peanut butter muffin they were also selling.

akm, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 19:57 (three years ago) link

Eye don't no about anyone else but if eye was 2 find a "formation" in my lemonade, U can bet eye'd throw that shit away!

WHERE'S JIM!? (Turrican), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 19:58 (three years ago) link

25c for a peanut butter muffin is a steal, especially if you're a dog and it makes your whole day. Score one for capitalism!

Tom Violence, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 20:07 (three years ago) link

When I learned that there were other lemonade stands in the neighborhood I required customers to sign an exclusive subscriber agreement.

JWoww Gilberto (man alive), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 20:09 (three years ago) link

A quarter is like a buck seventy-five in dog dollars tho.

A nationally known air show announcer/personality (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 20:11 (three years ago) link

dog was pretty happy. she shoved the whole thing in her mouth and ate it even though it was scalding hot. she paused momentarily like, "is this a good idea?" then decided it was.

akm, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 21:15 (three years ago) link

hilton als is great but i'm not as into his pop music writing

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 23:36 (three years ago) link

Lemonade by Peyoncé

... (Eazy), Thursday, 28 April 2016 03:32 (three years ago) link

Diana Ross, Sun Ra and Fetty Wap

JWoww Gilberto (man alive), Thursday, 28 April 2016 03:54 (three years ago) link

two years pass...

Do you guys like salty lemonade? Great after a workout or when it's really hot imo.

So it turns out that using some coconut water (approx 1/3?) is the key to perfection with this.

Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Thursday, 10 January 2019 16:35 (nine months ago) link

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