2) The idea, verbalized three or four times (most pointedly by Bunk), that McNulty destroys everyone around him. That theme is absolutely central to Mad Men and Don Draper. I don't find it that convincing here.
i don't know, i think mh is otm here. The Wire is so much more of an ensemble show, and it doesn't necessarily need a protagonist who's an operatic vortex of destruction, complete with flashbacks to his overly complicated origin story.
Basically, McNulty has a self-destructive streak and make the lives of people around him harder in quotidian but tangible ways. That works a lot more for the wire. tbh i never thought "you destroy everything you touch!" was ever a central theme anyway.
― intheblanks, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 17:27 (eight years ago) link
that was also the theme of the sopranos, iirc, and i didn't see breaking bad but it looks p suspicious on this front. one of the cool things about the wire is that it's the premium cable show where that is not the theme.
― denies the existence of dark matter (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 17:32 (eight years ago) link
also notable that don and tony are the majority recipients of their shows' focus, year in, year out; mcnulty is a secondary character. (even in s1 he's no more a protagonist than D is.)
― denies the existence of dark matter (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 17:41 (eight years ago) link
the real destroyer anyway is herc, in ways that are worse than anything mcnulty does.
― nomar, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 17:41 (eight years ago) link
definitely
― marcos, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 17:42 (eight years ago) link
the expression on herc's face when levy rebukes him for not buying his ex-colleagues enough drinks
― denies the existence of dark matter (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 17:43 (eight years ago) link
I'm laughing at the idea that Don Draper is a more realistic and credible character than McNulty.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 17:54 (eight years ago) link
apart from in sex scenes ...
― sarahell, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 17:55 (eight years ago) link
"Can I get some scrapple with that?""You can get anything you want."
― how's life, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 18:02 (eight years ago) link
the moment i saw this thread in sna i scrolled up wondering where shakes would show up grumbling about something and i was not disappointed
― if young slothrop don't trust ya i'm gon' rhyme ya (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 18:06 (eight years ago) link
It's not necessarily that I find Don Draper more realistic--Mad Men's definitely the more highly stylized show--it's that I find the idea of him destroying the people around him a more credible organizing principle (or whatever) than with McNulty. Both shows make that idea explicit; I just think it works better in Mad Men.
I like the show! I think some of you are maybe discussing things that happen beyond season 1--I haven't started season 2 yet.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 18:09 (eight years ago) link
there's humor everyfuckingwhere in this show, it's just not along the lines of roger sterling quips and oyster puke (which are quite fun in their own way)
fat face rick's adminonition of stringer bell for being, ah, /hard to find/ in s3 ep. 10 is burned into my brain forever and that's one of the more obscure lines
― if young slothrop don't trust ya i'm gon' rhyme ya (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 18:10 (eight years ago) link
if these shows were "realistic" they would be really boring
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 18:11 (eight years ago) link
sloth otm the wire is hilarious there are so many great moments & lines
― marcos, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 18:12 (eight years ago) link
I was thinking there are variations on that with a lot of shows--Ned in Six Feet Under, Larry Sanders, and while I haven't yet started on The Sopranos, I assumed that would be true of Tony Soprano too.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 18:13 (eight years ago) link
perhaps the humour doesn't come across in subtitled form
― Number None, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 18:25 (eight years ago) link
I find the idea of him destroying the people around him a more credible organizing principle (or whatever) than with McNulty
but the thing is, as people have pointed out upthread, it really isn't the organizing principle of the show.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 18:26 (eight years ago) link
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, April 13, 2016 11:11 AM (14 minutes ago)
I shudder to think at how even more boring Mad Men would be if it were realistic!
― sarahell, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 18:27 (eight years ago) link
McNulty's "I know I can deal with this situation" nature is pretty well spelled out when he keeps drunkenly driving his car around the corner to hit the bridge
― μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 18:33 (eight years ago) link
McNulty isn't that central
The protestations of his being an asshole so far aren't much more than half hearted work bitchings
If you speak English and watch this with subtitles then you prob are going to not enjoy it anyway
― never had it so ogod (darraghmac), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 18:38 (eight years ago) link
no idea what that's supposed to mean. i'm sure the show is still perfectly good with subtitles.
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 18:47 (eight years ago) link
Bunk's reaction when he gets a copy of the Greek guy's texts - one of the biggest laughs I had watching the series.
― pplains, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 19:06 (eight years ago) link
can't begin to calculate the mileage i've got out of Stringer's big zing from the first meeting of the New Day Co-Op
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 20:04 (eight years ago) link
can u remind me or link to vid roger
― marcos, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 20:06 (eight years ago) link
I speak English, put the English subtitles on, watch and listen, all at the same time. Sometimes, just for an extra challenge, I wave my right hand in the air.
I thought McNulty's best dramatic scene in the first season was visiting Kima in the hospital.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 20:07 (eight years ago) link
"is you taking notes on a criminal fuckin conspiracy?" is probably too specific to be what roger's been getting mileage out of (tho i don't know his life) but i wanted to post it anyway
― denies the existence of dark matter (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 20:11 (eight years ago) link
i was gonna say it's the thing he says to tank about taking minutes on the meeting (bc he's been reading robert's rules of order) but that's in the s3 premiere, which predates the co-op's existence
― if young slothrop don't trust ya i'm gon' rhyme ya (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 20:11 (eight years ago) link
ha! jinx xp
Maybe not, but in the first season, a) Bunk says that to McNulty, b) Rawls says it to him, c) I think Pearlman says it to him, and d) he clearly believes that himself. I suppose I've overstated it--half the story is the other side, and McNulty's nothing to them--but it is a theme that's verbalized by a few different characters.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 20:13 (eight years ago) link
wait it is the first co-op episode (s3 e5). shit. also shamrock is the one reading robert's rules not tank
it's been a while since i've watched
― if young slothrop don't trust ya i'm gon' rhyme ya (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 20:14 (eight years ago) link
ep 1 always felt to me like we were picking the story up in the middle of proceedings (cold open always helps with that). I mean yeah, McNulty shit stirring is the starting point of everything but the McNulty = fuck spiel always felt like direct allusions to stuff that happened before we met the characters and not a thematic statement.
― tsrobodo, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 20:21 (eight years ago) link
wire is plenty funny. prop joe-pat riley is in season 1 isn't it? and prop joe telling omar where avon is to be found "he's not having the best of days is he?"
― pandemic, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 20:25 (eight years ago) link
i probably said this somewhere upthread a few years back, but what I took from that "theme" is that it was a critique of the crusading cop as "great white hope" -- in that McNulty is the sole cop character who fits the profile of the hero cop from most television shows prior to The Wire -- and he is damaged goods, an asshole, and can't really save the day.
However, Season 1 does have the most stereotypical characterizations of the cop characters. It does "get better" in later seasons.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 20:26 (eight years ago) link
all of mcnulty's characteristics "fit" in the usual M.O. of a central character from a cable TV show, but his womanizing and carousing and self-destructiveness are not really seen as part of a larger spiritual quest, which is what happens with a lot of these others shows.
― nomar, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 20:29 (eight years ago) link
p much every word out of prop joe's mouth is gold eg his phone call 'voices'
― pandemic, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 20:30 (eight years ago) link
also shamrock is the one reading robert's rules not tank
iirc stringer has imposed robert's on them; what shamrock or whoever it is has done is get too enthusiastic about it and not think about which elements will be actually useful to a cabal of drug dealers and which won't
funny moment cuz the apparatus of new day (and the uneasy west/east peace it represents) is so much the product of string's yearning for legitimacy and order, and usually he gets pushback on this from avon and others who think it's deluded, but in this case his pragmatism makes him the one in the room who has to remind his newly roberts-enthused lieutenant that they are still drug dealers -- the line builds stringer's character as Smart while also quietly undercutting his vision for the future
― denies the existence of dark matter (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 20:31 (eight years ago) link
this is dr. sidney handjerker trying to reach thomas hauk xp
― if young slothrop don't trust ya i'm gon' rhyme ya (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 20:31 (eight years ago) link
lol i totally forgot about those, prop joe is the best.
― denies the existence of dark matter (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 20:33 (eight years ago) link
on the dvds the actor robert chew did commentary for one season 4 episode along with the kids who play dukie/namond/mike/randy and does impersonations of half the cast, it's hysterical. (also totally forgot he died & that just bummed me the fuck out)
― if young slothrop don't trust ya i'm gon' rhyme ya (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 20:39 (eight years ago) link
OMG thank u.
― Jenny Ondioleeene (Leee), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 20:46 (eight years ago) link
man i didn't know robert chew died, a little devastated to hear that
― balls, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 21:02 (eight years ago) link
yeah, 2013. heart attack at 52.
― if young slothrop don't trust ya i'm gon' rhyme ya (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 21:26 (eight years ago) link
all of mcnulty's characteristics "fit" in the usual M.O. of a central character from a cable TV show, but his womanizing and carousing and self-destructiveness are not really seen as part of a larger spiritual quest
i think his shacking up with beadie is the clincher for this - there's no big drama around it, he's basically just like huh whaddaya know domestic happiness iirc - but it also gets undercut/confused by the final season bullshit, without which his domestication would have put the idea of questing to rest. not that the final season bullshit seriously gestures in that direction, it just makes it less coherent that he's NOT a spiritual-questing detective/person.
― j., Wednesday, 13 April 2016 21:29 (eight years ago) link
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/used-subtitles-to-watch-the-wire-the-writer-says-thats-just-criminal-1773087.html
http://emojipedia-us.s3.amazonaws.com/cache/db/d5/dbd57bcbb3fff7245025a39061012200.png
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 21:47 (eight years ago) link
A Daily Mail critic, meanwhile, observed the "mumbled patois of the Baltimore dealers", adding: "Most people I know – and these are people in their mid 30s – prefer to watch The Wire with the subtitles switched on."
That's just silly.
― Jenny Ondioleeene (Leee), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 22:09 (eight years ago) link
a lot of people watch everything with subtitles. idk i find it impossible cuz i can't stop reading the subtitles and it tends to obliterate the performances. i also watch everything w giant headphones tho, partly because i am surrounded by tiny, extremely loud frogs, so i sympathize w audio problems. but as for the slang, yeah, yr obv supposed to pick it up. (idk how subtitles are supposed to help w the slang. i was disappointed that independent article's guide wasn't a grunge-style joke.)
― denies the existence of dark matter (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 22:18 (eight years ago) link
i turn on subtitles for a lot of britishes media
― 龜, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 22:45 (eight years ago) link
frogs, dlh?
― how's life, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 22:46 (eight years ago) link
Alternative would be to dub the voices with proper English?
― ... (Eazy), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 22:47 (eight years ago) link