should i give the grateful dead a chance?

highest recommendation for this new book

http://dacapopress.com/book/hardcover/heads/9780306822551
goes much deeper than just the Dead (but it also has plenty about the Dead)

― tylerw, Wednesday, March 30, 2016 3:28 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I just read a review of that Heads book yesterday in the latest Mojo and wondered how good it was. Might just need to grab a copy.

Also had a review of the new David Hepworth book 1971 though not sure if that has any Dead content and it wasa bad year for them or at least not so good one for the most part. Pigpen getting seriously ill. Mickey Hart retiring on finding out his dad had ripped the band off. Meant the band were less exploratory for the most part and songs that reached 1/2 and hour and upwards in the years either side of that shortened a lot. But otherwise it was a decent year for music I think.

yeah, i really loved Heads (and it's the kinda book that'll be great to just pick up and flip to any random page too)
here's my little write-up http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2016/03/30/heads-a-biography-of-psychedelic-america/

here is a book that mojo told me was good but it sux

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Jthvc8ooL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

yeah... that oral history that came out last year is good though.

conversations w/ the dead is pretty good too

(another gans related book)

Frustrated by Courtney Barnett's semi-performance of "New Speedway Boogie" on Fallon: started okay, added keyboardist and her regulars looked ready to go, but she fumbled the words, finally started to solo, also promising---but then oops out of time. Damn! She's on that charity comp, Day of the Dead, right? Maybe the one yall are muttering about upthread?

It was no 5/14/70, that's for sure... :D Not bad though. Just that it's a pretty straight reading. I like it better than some of her original material. Haven't heard the comp yet.

alright i'm admittedly in a fledgling dead listening stage but what are some good dark stars? my favorites are the one from live/dead and 2/28/1969... the latter one is real good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLMuRuwAWts

sorry, couldn't help myself. blame it on the stills revive.

so many of the 68-69 dark stars are amazing, my favorite period of the dead

Barnett said she wasn't even familiar with the song before she was approached to add a track to the compilation. Not really sure what she's doing on there anyway. They could have at least approached artists with some knowledge and appreciation, no?

headyversion.com has massive lists of great versions of Dead songs...as has been pointed out on the Dick's Picks thread here

I've got nothing against Barnett, she's fine, but her reading seems uninspired and rote

They could have at least approached artists with some knowledge and appreciation, no?

― calstars, Thursday, June 2, 2016 8:34 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^^ My problem with about 90% of that shitty comp

Because when I think "spacey psychedelic mind-melting improvisational jams," I think "Courtney Barnett."

My favorite "Dark Star" is the version from Sunshine Daydream (Veneta Oregon, '72). If that don't convert you, nothing will.

Somehow hearing The UMO version of Shakedown Street now has changed my reading of the song and makes me think the Dead covered an UMO song 40 years ago

Because when I think "spacey psychedelic mind-melting improvisational jams," I think "Courtney Barnett."

But the song she picked isn't a space jam

what a limited interpretive lens to impose on the dead too

I was quite excited about the Courtney prospect. the result was a bit of a letdown against expectations, but it's very her and and very much the song, and isn't that the goal?

Not really sure what she's doing on there anyway. They could have at least approached artists with some knowledge and appreciation, no?

― calstars, Thursday, June 2, 2016 8:34 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

How do you know she doesn't and why did you pick on a solo female artist (who's one of the best of the group) to complain about?

Barnett said she wasn't even familiar with the song before she was approached to add a track to the compilation. Not really sure what she's doing on there anyway. They could have at least approached artists with some knowledge and appreciation, no?

― calstars, Thursday, June 2, 2016 8:34 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Same thing happened with Midnight Oil when they were approached for Deadicated. They didn't understand why they were approached for the project, and said they had little-to-no interest in/knowledge of the Dead.

What was frustrating about Barnett's live fumble was that I knew she *could* play it well---and did, as far as she got, which wasn't far----she's got the chops and the sensibility. She's mentioned the "stabby bits" (guitar breaks, partial release from neurotic POV in verses) as based on Television, who always seemed to know their Dead---to the extent that I used to hear muttering from "true," pre-hardcore punks back in the day (and Creem eventually called them "an ill-natured hippie band." Also, if I go back to, say, '67 GD performances of "Cream Puff War," or some of that recent Trad, Gras & Stenar box, I think of some live Television ten years (or less) later.
So I could imagine Barnett absorbing some Deadness indirectly, or something compatible, and I could imagine some of Hunter's lyrics ringing a bell, although by temperment she seems more isolated, a diarist or blogger---a comparitively rare one, conscientious about intelligibility---rather than passing around philosophical raps 'n' doobies, leading a conversation, like Hunter often does, especially in this song.

the *stylistic*, sonic sensibility, I meant, even if convivial lyrics make her a little uncomfortable (so why do that song)

(I've never seen Verlaine or Lloyd crediting Garcia or live VU or Creedence jams, but think V did mention John Cippolina, and Blues Project-era Danny Kalb's sick solos---whatever; it's more a matter of great mynds rising to converge)

yeah would be shocking if verlaine liked the Dead (don't know about the rest of the guys in the band), but he did like Quicksilver (and Moby Grape) so there's definitely some west coast psych influence there. occasionally on some "other one"s I get a tightly wound Television vibe. think it was greil marcus who derisively called Television the Dead of the CBGB scene.

1972.08.27 and 1970.02.13 are my standbys. i also like 1972.05.11 and anything else from '72 as well as 1970.05.08, but the latter is a truly abysmal audience recording and therefore i wouldn't recommend it to anyone. never got into the '68/'69 ones.

Ha, I think that might've been Dave Marsh -- he likened Verlaine's playing to Garcia's in the RS Record Guide.

xp

maybe marcus borrowed it from marsh -- http://www.furious.com/perfect/marcus.html
i think lester bangs said something to that effect too. they must've all had a conference call about it.

Maybe that was part of their appeal for xgau, since he liked the Dead (and dig into his site's archives for late 60s discussions of the Dead, incl. when they finally started playing the East Coast, and supposedly wanted to put Pigpen and Weir into a subsidiary band...also early LP reviews etc---he covers some shows I found on archive.org)

yeah i think christgau says those fillmore east shows in the early 70s were the best shows he's ever been to?

I know I've read Verlaine extol Lifetime and have seen QMS cited by Television. Wasn't there something about the timing of them splitting tied into QMS's timing.

As to truly stunning Dead sets May 70 and August 68 are both great periods. I think there must be a stretch in 69 but can't think. Possibly February.

& Veneta 72 is pretty outstanding.

For some older rock listeners (and I guess younger too, if you count *self-proclaimed* punks, who didn't come along 'til the mid-70s, and subsequent s-p and other ATDD, caffeinated, phonehead, and/or just-plain-antsy individuals), the whole idea of songs getting long was disconcerting. As a kiddie who was still starting to really (kind of) pay attention to hits on the radio, I was startled to discover the *long* version of "Light My Fire," even before I got to "The End." And being expected to write about this long-ass jam compared to that long-ass jam, impressionistic and/or technical descriptions of approximately infinite guitar solos? Even much later, more wide-ranging editors have been known to ditch such things, lemmetellya.
So can see why Marcus and Marsh and Bangs (who did like his Horrible Noise jazz) could get put off (never saw those guys in Musician or 90s guitar mags,) though young xgau worked it in (tended to summarize though, I think).

And it's not just the writers and editors, of course. They can try, but for instance, in the Voice, rather than a guitar mag, a rock writer-musician friend of mine provided a very concise breakdown of a math-rock band's approach, and even mathless me could understand it. But a self-proclaimed fan of the band wrote a letter, published of course, "Boo, no fun, buzzkill lecture!" And that was the end of that kind of coverage, for quite a while, I think.

yeah i think bangs in particular did not like that television (or at least Verlaine) appeared to *gasp* take themselves seriously.
anyway, there are a few 90s/00s Television live things where they actually do sound pretty Dead-ish.

I went to see Television live circa 2004 and I was digging the more 'improvised' bits, a little bored by the more disengaged run-throughs of staple material, and I thought to myself, well who else sound like this but have more improvised bits, and I semi-reluctantly decided upon the Dead, chiefly because of the similarities between Verlaine and Garcia's actual gtr sound, at certain periods of their playing (holy trinity completed by Richard Thompson, who again can sound like JG or vice versa at times (shared folkie b/ground)) It was Live/Dead, and esp the 'Dark Star' on that got me on a pretty intense Dead-hunting period, which has died away now, tho' I still love listening to primo Dead and would always rec LD as the best place to start for aspiring Dheads. Anyway, fwiw, here's some of my faves, easy-to get Dark Stars:

*Dick's Picks #4 - Fillmore East 13/2/1970
*Dick's Picks #19 - Fairground Arena Oklahoma City 10/19/73
*Ladies and Gentlemen #19 - Fillmore East 4/28/71 (not an especially long or cosmic DS but it's the start of a sequence of some of the Dead's best music - Dark Star>St Stephen>Not Fade Away>Goin' Down the Road Feeling Bad>Not Fade Away)
*Europe 72: The Lyceum London 5/25/1972

you guys are the best.

And being expected to write about this long-ass jam compared to that long-ass jam, impressionistic and/or technical descriptions of approximately infinite guitar solos? Even much later, more wide-ranging editors have been known to ditch such things, lemmetellya.
So can see why Marcus and Marsh and Bangs (who did like his Horrible Noise jazz) could get put off (never saw those guys in Musician or 90s guitar mags,) though young xgau worked it in (tended to summarize though, I think).

Marsh loved Sun Ra (but didn't write about him) and the MC5's shows (which he did write about), so lengthy pieces were never a problem for him. His main gripe (or one of many) with the Dead was that their renditions of things like "Johnny B. Goode" were decidedly limp. In the second (blue) RS guide he gave grudging praise to Live/Dead and Europe '72.

And I did see Marsh's byline in a '90s guitar mag exactly once: a late-'96 issue of Guitar World, where he gave a five-star review to the Who's Live at the Isle of Wight.

I know yall aren't helpless, but can't resist linking xgau's page of Dead album reviews---I don't agree with all of it (haven't heard alll of these, for one thing), but I can dig where he's coming from, to say the least (at very botton of said page: links to a bunch of his early newspaper articles about the Dead)
http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_artist2.php?id=1445

plus a (relative) few Garcia sidetrips:
http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?name=Jerry+Garcia

i'm only fitfully into the dead, for the longest time I only really liked one show (pembroke pines 77, the version of "sugaree" made total sense of the dead all at once) but i'm listening to veneta 72 aka sunshine daydream which I understand is a classic, well-known show but I just wanted to register how much I think it rules, especially the total jazz fusion center of "playing in the band"

quite possibly my favorite Dead show. No "Dark Star" compares and yes, totally agree about the excellent version of PITB. Keith added so much, doesn't get nearly the respect he deserves.

Check out the 3 or 4 Berkeley shows from the run just prior to that Oregon show. More of the same awesomeness.

Check out the 3 or 4 Berkeley shows from the run just prior to that Oregon show. More of the same awesomeness.

Check out the 3 or 4 Berkeley shows from the run just prior to that Oregon show. More of the same awesomeness.

More of the same awesomeness.

Remember when awesome and awful meant the same thing?

You want more of the same awesomeness? Check out the 3 or 4 Berkeley shows from the run just prior to that Oregon show.

That Sunshine Daydream box was a great buy since from extended listening yes that is a peak performance. Plus it came with the much delayed official release of the film.
From other periods when they're hot they're hot for a while. So you get August 68, February 69, May 70. Not sure what else is around the time of Veneta other than that Berkeley is there anything else US, European tour isn't that far away timewise. Is Veneta 27/8/72 or 28/7 or something?

I feel like we're all on more or less the same page re those Berkeley shows. Awesomeness