maura otm but what I'm trying to say also is that it's also reshaping those genres which are ostensibly in the center of the conversation by warping what is valued w/in them. this isn't like pre-poptimism where we bemoan that popular stuff is popular or that our tastes are so different from the mainstream; it's more that the Conversation is driven by memes, not music; that what is shared isn't necessarily even what the general public likes as music but what it likes to share and to participate in as a part of this social media 'culture'
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, March 11, 2016 9:06 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i guess people said that about pop stars n stuff like 'why do you care about costumes n music videos shouldn't it be about the music man' but imo that stuff is Cool but a meme saying LOL Norm Says Drake Killed Meek Mill is not cool its goofy
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, March 11, 2016 9:08 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
oh and music writing is forced to reflect this online "culture" rather than music or the culture of music
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, March 11, 2016 9:09 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i'd like to point out that d-40 has been otm in this thread
i think the amount of e-ink spilled on the life of pablo and kanye's weeklong twitter hissyfit and weird release of it is another example of an album that got wrote about more than people actually want to listen to it even now like 2 weeks later
― robbie ca$hflo (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 11 March 2016 16:43 (eight years ago) link
at least some portion of their popularity was from siphoned-away (well, not *away* but still) taylor swift fans
Interested to know more about this. I reviewed the 1975's debut for Alternative Press; have they gotten Taylor Swift's blessing in some way since?
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Friday, 11 March 2016 16:44 (eight years ago) link
if it bleeds it leads yo
― ulysses, Friday, 11 March 2016 16:45 (eight years ago) link
also I'm not sure the 1975 is the best example here because a) there's a fuckton of writing on them lately and b) at least some portion of their popularity was from siphoned-away (well, not *away* but still) taylor swift fans
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Friday, March 11, 2016 10:40 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
feel like most of this came out after they went no. 1. critics on the edge paid attention but the only publication in the states that gave them a real feature prior was Spin, right? lol
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 11 March 2016 16:47 (eight years ago) link
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Friday, March 11, 2016 11:44 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
in the tabloid sense, which in music may as well be the same thing
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Friday, 11 March 2016 16:48 (eight years ago) link
"Even 誤訳侮辱 likes them!" might be a good marketing strategy.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 11 March 2016 16:50 (eight years ago) link
i know someone who was writing about the 1975 in 2013
http://mauramagazine.com/article/554a86c9ada6e2283e75618f/hold_you_tight
― maura, Friday, 11 March 2016 16:57 (eight years ago) link
who gave you access to my diary??
― robbie ca$hflo (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 11 March 2016 16:58 (eight years ago) link
lol
― HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Friday, 11 March 2016 17:02 (eight years ago) link
I just don't understand how it can be possible to be so *on* all the time. I work 38 hrs a week in a day job (and I don't have the luxury of being able to select music or use headphones at a desk, lol retail), I have friends and family I spend time with around that, and then it's a struggle to find time to catch-up on what The Conversation suggests I should be listening to, as well as all the stuff I want to listen to outside it, then form opinions on it and write/blog about it. If I wanted to establish myself as a critical writer, I'd need to throw myself into Twitter culture and it feels overwhelming and exhausting on top of real life. And its easy to say "don't chase the same rainbow, establish your own niche" but there's still bills to pay.
― boxedjoy, Saturday, 12 March 2016 14:07 (eight years ago) link
Also I think pop music writing is so big now because it traditionally hasn't been seen as "worthy" due to rockism and patriarchy etc - thanks to the rise of social media, Tumblr, etc, people are finally taking audiences outside of old white men seriously. Like, if Taylor Swift/The 1975 had been around twenty years ago there would have been just as much writing due to the scope of their celebrity, but the tone, style, attitude etc would be very different.
― boxedjoy, Saturday, 12 March 2016 14:13 (eight years ago) link
Well, I don't know I feel like artists like Madonna and Prince were written about pretty extensively and seriously at their Peaks. Or Michael Jackson or Janet Jackson, the original "popist" movement of writers were basically UK writers who are now old white men... And people like Kogan, Eddy etc... Hip hop was taken as an important movement pretty much from jump
― robbie ca$hflo (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 12 March 2016 15:25 (eight years ago) link
Jonny Garrett is now assistant editor of jamieoliver.com and reviews craft beers on youtube
― soref, Saturday, 12 March 2016 18:19 (eight years ago) link
it pains me to say this, but I'm not sure those audiences are being taken seriously. I think there's a lot of condescension toward those audiences, which is not the same thing
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Saturday, 12 March 2016 18:37 (eight years ago) link
Condescension from whom? I know the shorthand is that Rolling Stone and Mojo and Q (is Q even still around?) sneer at pop and champion past-it old man bands, but is that even true? RS seems to do both with equal fervor - put this month's young sensation on the cover, then turn around and release a "Special Edition" tribute to Keith Richards or whoever. Mojo is Mojo, yeah, but they're no less of a niche publication than The Wire and they know it. It seems to me that the dominant mode of pop music writing - and I don't just mean dominant as in "this is what everyone's doing," but dominant as in "this is everywhere" - is about whoever's at the top of the charts, and it's either blanket celebration or (in the case of Beyoncé and to a lesser degree Rihanna) an attempt to show why buying the same album - or watching the same YouTube video - as ten million other people is somehow a politically insurgent gesture. I mean, if you want to find condescension toward pop audiences, you're pretty much stuck going to ultimateclassicrock.com or someplace, which at that point aren't you basically actively seeking out the thing you dislike, so you can complain that it still exists at all?
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Saturday, 12 March 2016 19:08 (eight years ago) link
*searches for beyoncé on the charts*
― HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Saturday, 12 March 2016 19:14 (eight years ago) link
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Saturday, March 12, 2016 2:08 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
condescension from editors, whether it's "these kids will click on anything" or "they won't care if it's good or not."
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Saturday, 12 March 2016 19:17 (eight years ago) link
(and yes, I have heard both these statements and/or variations on them, it's not my reading anything in)
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Saturday, 12 March 2016 19:19 (eight years ago) link
Since I'm mostly out of the field at this point (I don't even write for Alternative Press anymore - an outlet that I think really does respect its largely teenage, largely female readership - I'm mostly covering jazz now) I genuinely don't know whether the low quality of current music journalism is attributable to condescension-toward-audiences-presumed-dumb or to the writers and editors themselves being kinda dumb. (There are a lot of currently prominent music journalists and editors who I think are very bad at both thinking and writing.)
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Saturday, 12 March 2016 19:21 (eight years ago) link
It's probably fair to say that if The Conversation involves The 1975, you're probably better off walking away and looking for a different conversation.
― // 166,000 W A N K E R S // LOVE (Turrican), Saturday, 12 March 2016 19:48 (eight years ago) link
you never have!
― HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Saturday, 12 March 2016 20:30 (eight years ago) link
i don't think i would know the 1975 if they shook a stick at me. maybe i know them from the radio without knowing it.
― scott seward, Saturday, 12 March 2016 20:54 (eight years ago) link
#10 song in the nation right now. never heard of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWaRiD5ym74
― scott seward, Saturday, 12 March 2016 20:56 (eight years ago) link
okay, i have to hear these people:
DJ Snake Featuring Bipolar Sunshine
― scott seward, Saturday, 12 March 2016 20:58 (eight years ago) link
wait, i lied, that dnce song was on the hot 100 which isn't the same as the top ten i don't think.
― scott seward, Saturday, 12 March 2016 20:59 (eight years ago) link
maybe i'll write something about the hot 100. i've been looking for something to do.
― scott seward, Saturday, 12 March 2016 21:01 (eight years ago) link
the Hot 100 is the main singles chart, being on the top ten of that means "top ten in the nation" etc.
― ODD FUTURE WOLFGANG VAN HALEN ON BASS (some dude), Saturday, 12 March 2016 21:36 (eight years ago) link
i propose that "the conversation" be renamed to "the people punching each other in the face".
― diana krallice (rushomancy), Saturday, 12 March 2016 21:47 (eight years ago) link
that DNCE song is awesome btw
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, 13 March 2016 00:06 (eight years ago) link
its like basement jaxx finally crosses over 20 years late
yeesh that times thing is embarrassing
― balls, Sunday, 13 March 2016 17:40 (eight years ago) link
that DNCE song is shitty btw and something like six months old
― ulysses, Monday, 14 March 2016 14:01 (eight years ago) link
I just don't understand how it can be possible to be so *on* all the time.
it's called 'faking it until you make it' (where the second 'it' in this case is word count)
― maura, Monday, 14 March 2016 14:53 (eight years ago) link
the dnce song is this year's hot chelle rae i.e. catchy but rather bad song that one imagines is only a hit b/c radio is desperate for something resembling a new artist even tho said artist will surely never have a hit again. i almost miss metro station.
― dyl, Monday, 14 March 2016 15:20 (eight years ago) link
"new" "artist"
one imagines it's only a hit because someone somewhere is invested in giving joe jonas a third(?) chance
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Monday, 14 March 2016 16:20 (eight years ago) link
that band floundered for months
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 14 March 2016 16:27 (eight years ago) link
would read
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Monday, 14 March 2016 16:31 (eight years ago) link
basement jaxx now is about 100x better than DNCEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPLE2Bo3T6M
― ulysses, Monday, 14 March 2016 16:39 (eight years ago) link
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Monday, March 14, 2016 11:31 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Second
― thom yorke state of mind (voodoo chili), Monday, 14 March 2016 16:56 (eight years ago) link
xp Q doesn't sneer at pop fwiw. A lot of the key writers were and are ex-Smash Hits so the vibe has always been pro-pop as well as pro-old-man-bands. The current issue has The 1975 on the cover.
― impossible raver (Re-Make/Re-Model), Monday, 14 March 2016 18:29 (eight years ago) link
I'm well aware of how old the dnce song is and that it's a joe Jonas vehicle and that it's naff and shameless/tasteless and yet....it is great
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 14 March 2016 19:01 (eight years ago) link
I'd feel really sad if I thought you two were right—but that's mostly because I don't think of myself as "established." I think of myself as "old." Which actually puts me at a disadvantage in the market. There are writers I think of as established—Chuck Eddy, Rob Harvilla, Maura, Weingarten, Julianne Escobedo Shepherd, Jessica Hopper, plenty of others—but I definitely don't count myself among them.
on the emo tip, I actually, authentically, non-sarcastically appreciated seeing my name in this list considering not all that long a Ph1l didn't consider me established or w/e enough to be a part of the Marooned book
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 14 March 2016 19:23 (eight years ago) link
awww, emo puppy! let's all hug. you and phil are both nuts but you are OUR nuts.
― scott seward, Monday, 14 March 2016 19:42 (eight years ago) link
define...."thrilling"...
"For decades, indie rock bands like Built to Spill, Pavement, and Sonic Youth won critical and fan praise with their clever lyrics and distorted guitars. Those bands and their peers moved into thrilling new styles throughout the 1990s;"
http://www.mtv.com/news/2793656/rip-indie-rock/
― scott seward, Monday, 14 March 2016 21:23 (eight years ago) link
also, r.i.p. indie rock.
― scott seward, Monday, 14 March 2016 21:24 (eight years ago) link
also that quote makes it sound like those bands were around for decades and then got thrilling in the 90's. but maybe i can't read right.
"throughout" kind of fixes that misread, but yeah.
― Evan, Monday, 14 March 2016 21:26 (eight years ago) link
that thing also doesn't have anything to do with being white until the last paragraph. which makes the title weird. i read the whole thing! i really gotta go home...
― scott seward, Monday, 14 March 2016 21:31 (eight years ago) link
Title is just clickbait I suspect.
― Evan, Monday, 14 March 2016 21:35 (eight years ago) link
pop music is tackling sexism and racism in profound ways? cool i guess i'll have to take your word on that, since you've provided literally no examples!
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 14 March 2016 21:47 (eight years ago) link