(also to-date that is the only Smiths bassline I've ever learned how to play lol)
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 19:26 (eight years ago) link
I've said it before, but I think the debut album is a mostly wonderful collection of material, although far from their best produced and recorded. Also, a bit baffling to put 'Reel Around The Fountain' as an opening track, although at the same time it's difficult to figure out where else it could have gone without making the album feel ballad-heavy. It just strikes me as an odd way to open a debut album, really.
― The Dave Grohl of ILX (Turrican), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 19:34 (eight years ago) link
Yeah, 'Barbarism Begins At Home' is fantastic, one of Rourke's best basslines easily. There's footage of them playing it at a gig in Germany on Youtube and when the track breaks down to just the bass and drums, Marr takes off his guitar and begins to shimmy around onstage, dancing with Moz.
As a slab of white funk I'd take it over anything and everything released by Level fuckin' 42, without a doubt.
― The Dave Grohl of ILX (Turrican), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 19:38 (eight years ago) link
bassline has kind of a Bernie Edwards' feel to it, a bit of that disco stair-stepping 8th note thing
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 19:45 (eight years ago) link
altho now that I think about it none of it is 8th notes is it? lol
That Barbarism live video and the The The vs. The World live video of Giant, also featuring Johnny Marr dancing across the stage, are probably my two favorite Marr moments.
― brotherlovesdub, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 19:49 (eight years ago) link
Also, a bit baffling to put 'Reel Around The Fountain' as an opening track
nah this is my favorite thing about it
― HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 19:49 (eight years ago) link
There's footage of them playing it at a gig in Germany on Youtube and when the track breaks down to just the bass and drums, Marr takes off his guitar and begins to shimmy around onstage, dancing with Moz.
at 26:07https://youtu.be/2Y7YnL9SPjs
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 19:50 (eight years ago) link
You guys/gals all failed if Reel Around the Fountain doesn't take this thing.
― simmel, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 19:52 (eight years ago) link
3. LOUDER THAN BOMBS (compilation album, 1987)1398 points | 40 votes | 11 first place votes
― nate woolls, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 19:58 (eight years ago) link
I like 'Reel Around The Fountain', but it's my least favourite opening track of theirs. You'd think that they'd open their debut with something with a little more power to it, like they would later do with 'The Headmaster Ritual' and particularly 'The Queen Is Dead' ...
― The Dave Grohl of ILX (Turrican), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 20:01 (eight years ago) link
one thing I love about HOH is the position of "Reel Around The Fountain"
― i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 20:02 (eight years ago) link
I think that there's something discombobulating about making 'Reel Around The Fountain' the opening track of the album, but in a good way. the debut was the second Smiths record I listened to after Louder Than Bombs and I remember being surprised by how eerie and strange the whole album was compared with the later stuff. it makes less of an impact for me on HOH, sandwiched between two other ballads
― soref, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 20:05 (eight years ago) link
xp They can do power from time to time but it's not what they are about. RATF is a way more appropriate opening track for them.
― simmel, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 20:06 (eight years ago) link
Oh yeah, I agree that the debut is quite an eerie record in places: 'Suffer Little Children', 'The Hand That Rocks The Cradle'... 'Pretty Girls Make Graves', even. I'd say a song like 'Suffer Little Children' in particular is 100% successful in providing an eerie vibe, in a way that 'Meat Is Murder' isn't.
― // C U R I O S I T Y K I L L E D T H E C A T // LOVE (Turrican), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 20:13 (eight years ago) link
I disagree strongly; HOH was the first place I heard "Reel Around The Fountain" and it was an instant standout for me, to the point where I immediately played it again once it finished. (Also, I already knew "Back to the Old House" and "Please, Please...", the latter being the first Smiths song I ever heard thanks to the Pretty In Pink soundtrack, so I knew what to expect from them.)
― i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 20:15 (eight years ago) link
I voted for The World Won't Listen over Louder Than Bombs - LTB was a handy way to collect (nearly) all the non-album stuff but I think the sequencing lets it down a bit, it's never really felt like an album listen to me.
― Gavin, Leeds, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 20:21 (eight years ago) link
I think that there's something discombobulating about making 'Reel Around The Fountain' the opening track of the album, but in a good way
yeah, the album goes into weird and unsettling places for a debut that's also packed with singles, and this sort of sets it off in an appropriately uneasy but assured way, portending something awful but being excessively pretty about it. for years "reel" was my favorite smiths song, which i think owes a lot to how it announces that record, and also announces the smiths as a band. (at least for me. the s/t was the first record of theirs i heard)
― HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 20:26 (eight years ago) link
I know that some Smiths fans count those compilations (partcularly Hatful of Hollow) as "proper" albums alongside the main 4, but I don't think I ever have. They're useful to own, though.
― // B R O T H E R B E Y O N D // LOVE (Turrican), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 20:27 (eight years ago) link
In the same way as, say, The Beatles' Past Masters or Yellow Submarine are useful to own, I mean.
― // B R O T H E R B E Y O N D // LOVE (Turrican), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 20:29 (eight years ago) link
Ah, y'see, The Queen Is Dead was the first "proper" Smiths LP I heard, and then I went backwards from there to the beginning and got Strangeways last... so after hearing the thundering opening to The Queen Is Dead, 'Reel Around The Fountain' sounded a bit soggy in comparison. I do like the song, though!
― // B R O T H E R B E Y O N D // LOVE (Turrican), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 20:33 (eight years ago) link
my introduction to the smiths story is incredibly bad. i read perks of being a wallflower in high school, which prominently refers to the smiths and "asleep" in particular, over and over, and i was like "i gotta check this band out!! also my zits are exploding everywhere, whoooaa, shoot i forgot to do my homework, aw man and i hate my parents but i guess i love them too!"
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 20:36 (eight years ago) link
The Smiths thought this was the stand-out song in their early set - the nearest they had to an all-time classic. It was going to be their second single before the whole paedophilia controversy. It's always been used as the most obvious example of the duff production/performances on the debut album - they had Paul Carrack add some keyboard to try to liven it up. The version on Hatful of Hollow is way better (as is the Troy Tate one), but received wisdom is they never recorded a great version of it.
― Eyeball Kicks, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 20:37 (eight years ago) link
Yeah, I'd definitely agree that it's one of those songs they never truly nailed in the studio. It's a wonderful song, but they never really got the best out of it that they could. It's understandable that it's often cited as an example of the production flaws of the debut... the drums in particular sound terrible - I'm not so much talking about Joyce's performance, although it is quite basic and not as assured as his drumming on later releases, more the actual sound as captured by the producer/engineer. Those snares sound really feeble, and the reverb sounds as if it's there to try and cover the bad snare sound up.
― // W E T W E T W E T // LOVE (Turrican), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 20:51 (eight years ago) link
Turrcan's hate for Level 42 is hilarious at this point.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 20:54 (eight years ago) link
not sure if any of the 'Reel..' nay sayers are familiar with the Troy Tate version. easily the best version of a song i was never a huge fan of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOZ7iXsaoeM
― piscesx, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:07 (eight years ago) link
Aw, man. Does LTB at #3 mean MIM is going to miss out? Assumed HOH would place
― groovypanda, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:10 (eight years ago) link
Blows my mind that this band did all it did in 5 years, and that Johnny Marr was still only 23 when they broke up. (FWIW, Tommy Stinson is a few years younger than Marr!).
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:15 (eight years ago) link
Johnny Marr was still only 23 when they broke up
Yeah this is incredible to me.
― Gavin, Leeds, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:22 (eight years ago) link
Yeah, it's an incredible output over so few years and at such a young age. I think Paul Weller split up The Jam when he was in his early 20's, too. If only they could have found a manager that Morrissey could put up with or found it hard to be a prick to, and there may have been more Smiths music.
― // B R O S // LOVE (Turrican), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:23 (eight years ago) link
Even stranger, or not, was Marr's incredible lack of ego, going on to such a journeyman career, where even when he did officially join bands (Electronic, The The, Modest Mouse, the Cribs) he seemed as much a support player as when he played session guy.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:31 (eight years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/03Y6FcD.jpg
2. MEAT IS MURDER (studio album, 1985)1485 points | 45 votes | 8 first place votes
― nate woolls, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:32 (eight years ago) link
The best - my number one. Every track great (including the title track). A total showcase for Marr's most inventive playing.
― Eyeball Kicks, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:37 (eight years ago) link
whoa, kind of surprised by that, even though i like MiM (it was #5 on my ballot). just kind of shocked that Hatful didn't make it!
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:38 (eight years ago) link
But wait, what was number 3?
― Eyeball Kicks, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:40 (eight years ago) link
Never mind, I missed it.
I am also shocked Hatful got bounced (because I cannot imagine that TQID isn't #1)
― i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:41 (eight years ago) link
Whoa! Was just quietly mourning it's likely non-appearance, behind Strangeways, which felt like an outrage. Phew!
― Maximum big surprise! (Nag! Nag! Nag!), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:42 (eight years ago) link
xxxxxxxp:
Yeah, absolutely... for all the praise that Marr has had, either as a guitarist or for his songwriting, he comes across as being quite modest. Even during videos where you see him demonstrating his guitar parts and talking you through it, there seems to be no ego there in a "yeah, I wrote this, aren't I amazing?" sense. Morrissey, on the other hand, I get the feeling he believes every single amount of positive press he's ever had.
― // B R O S // LOVE (Turrican), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:43 (eight years ago) link
Meat is Murder is perfect from start to finish. The title track is so haunting...really disturbing song.
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:45 (eight years ago) link
Yeah, I think we can all guess what's #1 at this point.
― // B R O S // LOVE (Turrican), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:45 (eight years ago) link
I really prefer the cassette version of the album cover with the single image
http://eil.com/images/main/The+Smiths+Meat+Is+Murder+345583.jpg
― soref, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:46 (eight years ago) link
I never play Meat Is Murder as a complete album but I like most, if not all, of it as individual songs
― i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:48 (eight years ago) link
It's probably Rourke's best album in terms of his bass playing: 'Barbarism Begins At Home' has, of course, already been mentioned, but also 'Rusholme Ruffians' wouldn't be anywhere near the song it is without that nimble baseline that runs throughout the whole track... and to think they fired the guy at one point!
― // L E V E L 4 2 // LOVE (Turrican), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:52 (eight years ago) link
As you listened to the catalog for this project, did any new favorite songs emerge? Did any particular album surprise you in any way?Since I've worked in the United States, in the last six or seven years, I've picked up on the fact that Meat is Murder was the record that was the introduction to the Smiths for a lot of people. Living in Portland meant that I would meet people who heard that record first. I know now that that record is more important to a lot of people than I realized. So I guess I kind of listened to it differently because a lot of my friends know that record best. I always have really liked "The Headmaster Ritual" off that record, and "That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore."
Since I've worked in the United States, in the last six or seven years, I've picked up on the fact that Meat is Murder was the record that was the introduction to the Smiths for a lot of people. Living in Portland meant that I would meet people who heard that record first. I know now that that record is more important to a lot of people than I realized. So I guess I kind of listened to it differently because a lot of my friends know that record best. I always have really liked "The Headmaster Ritual" off that record, and "That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore."
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:54 (eight years ago) link
I'll be very disappointed if 'That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore' isn't up there in at least the Top 15. That one has never lost its potency for me.
― // L E V E L 4 2 // LOVE (Turrican), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 21:59 (eight years ago) link
I still think Rourke was pretty great from the very first single onwards, but yeah, plenty of memorable bass on MIM. I actually get a bit impatient with the final 1/3 or so of MIM, and tend to underrate it when I'm not listening to it. But I think voted for at least 5 of 9 tracks.
― Maximum big surprise! (Nag! Nag! Nag!), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 22:02 (eight years ago) link
Nate seriously dragging out this painfully obvious #1 result here :P
― // L E V E L 4 2 // LOVE (Turrican), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 22:32 (eight years ago) link
The Smiths s/t was my #1 pick. This might sound daft, but, for me, the very muddiness of the sound actually felt like an integral part of the band's whole aesthetic. I always remember my first experience of it - sat on a draughty train station platform, waiting for a delayed train home, and this gloomily pretty music bathed in murk coming out of my cassette Walkman speakers. It fit. Like watching an unremastered early '60s kitchen-sink drama on the telly; all grubby greys and thin sound. The CD-era sleekness of Strangeways, and the stadium-filling drums of TQiD, never appealed to me as much. It wasn't quite the Smiths I fell in love with.
― painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture (DavidM), Wednesday, 2 March 2016 22:37 (eight years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/iVtbK8t.jpg
1. THE QUEEN IS DEAD (studio album, 1986)1821 points | 51 votes | 16 first place votes
― nate woolls, Wednesday, 2 March 2016 22:38 (eight years ago) link
1. Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others2. I Know It’s Over3. There Is A Light That Never Goes Out4. Rubber Rin5. Asleep6. Shoplifters Of The World Unite7. Please Please Please Let Me Get What I Want8. Heaven Knows I’m Miserable Know9. This Charming Man10. How Soon Is Now11. Panic12. Ask13. Bigmouth Strikes Again14. A Rush And A Push And The Land Is Ours15. The Queen Is Dead16. William, It Was Really Nothing17. Girlfriend In A Coma18. Nowhere Fast19. Oscillate Wildly20. London
― Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 18 March 2016 09:07 (eight years ago) link
Can anyone recommend some good Smiths live shows from the MiM and QiD tours? Also, were they known as a particularly good live act? Never saw them although I was a fan at the time, regret it now.
― Iago Galdston, Tuesday, 22 March 2016 22:44 (eight years ago) link
Nevermind, I got it (Thank Your Lucky Stars, LA 1986; Madrid, 1985)
― Iago Galdston, Tuesday, 22 March 2016 23:42 (eight years ago) link
I think there's a proshot video of that Madrid show on YouTube.
― brotherlovesdub, Wednesday, 23 March 2016 02:37 (eight years ago) link
Thanks, brother
― Iago Galdston, Wednesday, 23 March 2016 03:19 (eight years ago) link
I have been listening to the Spotify playlist constantly at work since this countdown and think it's driving me a little batty :)
― skip, Saturday, 16 April 2016 00:06 (seven years ago) link
Coyness is nice!
― The Silky Veils of Alfred (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 15 September 2018 02:29 (five years ago) link
And do you think you've made the right decision this time?
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 9 August 2019 00:49 (four years ago) link